# Conservative London Mayor quashes anti-gay bus ads **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 17, 2012, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039 "2012-04-17T14:03:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/81 "2012-04-19T14:19:35Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > It’s a strawman. \ You are completely ignoring the substantive points of his posts and you appear to have no understanding at all of the different roles upper houses play in different forms of representative democracies. The result is that what you think are telling points are irrelevant in the specific context of the British political system where the upper house is not a distinct legislative body but one subject to the will of the elected House of Commons which at the moment is the sole repository of electoral legitimacy. We are a parliamentary system that is explicitly not built as a system of checks and balances designed to keep a seperately elected and independent Executive in check. That is the role of the House of Commons. All the house of Lords can do is scrutinise and propose amendments to legislation put to it by The Commons. It cannot block finance bills or bills related to the manifesto of the government. Even if it refuses to pass a bill it can, has been and will be over-ridden by the Commons. In practice it rarely ever comes to this as The Lords is aware of its role and the consequences that would follow. The least of which would be the thwarted government appointing however many hundreds of new peers out of thin air it needed to get its way. I prefer our system to the US one one where politicians on a permanent election footing pander to rich and powerful special interests. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/82 "2012-04-19T14:29:51Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > In the US, the Supreme Court has the power to strike down Congressional laws and interpret legislation. That’s a phenomenally powerful legislative power, and one which our courts absolutely don’t have. The ECHR does. Well, the latter, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/83 "2012-04-19T14:35:38Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The ECHR does. Well, the latter, anyway. True, and it doesn’t seem all that popular 😉 ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/84 "2012-04-19T14:41:36Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The ECHR does. Well, the latter, anyway. It can, just as our own Supreme Court can, require changes in a law to comply with its rulings in its specific field. The enforcement of the decision lies with European Ministers. It hasn’t the same wide-ranging power and remit as the US Supreme Court though. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/85 "2012-04-19T15:17:40Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > one subject to the will of the elected House of Commons It isn’t though. They’re subject to the laws of the country and there is marginal, unenforceable (without a means of recall) party discipline for peers that are not independent. I was never under the misapprehension that both chambers could propose bills. I just don’t think an unelected chamber should have power of scrutiny over bills. The fact that they cannot propose legislation is essentially insubstantial. Arguing that they do not “rule” just divorced them even further from the democratic process. The Supreme Court does not really have legislative power. They have the power of judicial oversight, determining whether specific acts (and their implications or methods through which they are enacted) are in concordance with the Constitution based on test cases. They don’t convene to discuss acts independent of such cases, nor do they communicate explicitly with the legislature. I’ve discussed issues with their appointment in another thread. Compare that to the UK, where there is no entrenched Constitution to refer to and the upper echelons of the judiciary sat in the House of Lords until reforms introduced by the previous government. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/86 "2012-04-19T15:25:12Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I think **Ibn Warraq** hit the nail on the head, to a point: if you’re going to be fair about this, you have to compare Johnson to the mayors of New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco or Chicago. I accept this as a fair criticism of the OP - it’s a bit unfair to compare London to the entire US; London/NYC is more comparable, and I am unaware of any NY mayors taking a strong anti-gay stance (although Giuliani was a fruitcake in other ways). In fact ISTR Ed Koch being presumed gay, although a quick peek at his Wiki (oo er) reveals that his standard response to questions about his sexuality is > [@](#): > > Fuck off. On the other hand, as has already been pointed out, Conservative PM David Cameron is also currently in the pro-SSM boat and while I’m sure there are local and national politicians of various stripes who are anti-gay to differing degrees (and certainly the bishops in the Lords are fairly grumpy about it) it is definitely not a huge political issue here. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/87 "2012-04-19T15:35:39Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > Don’t troll. You’re not allowed to accuse other people of trolling in this forum, and you made a couple of other inappropriate personal comments as well. Don’t do it again. And both of you should take this British parliamentary discussion to another thread. I let it go for a while here, but it’s a distraction and I don’t want to see it clog this thread up any further. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/88 "2012-04-19T16:22:29Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > On the other hand, as has already been pointed out, Conservative PM David Cameron is also currently in the pro-SSM boat and while I’m sure there are local and national politicians of various stripes who are anti-gay to differing degrees (and certainly the bishops in the Lords are fairly grumpy about it) it is definitely not a huge political issue here. I agree with the underlying point of the OP, which I take to be “Britain is nicer to its gay people.” I just think that the answer to the question the OP actually poses- “can you imagine a Republican doing this?”- is yes. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/89 "2012-04-19T16:49:07Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I agree with the underlying point of the OP, which I take to be “Britain is nicer to its gay people.” I just think that the answer to the question the OP actually poses- “can you imagine a Republican doing this?”- is yes. I agree with this although it’s becoming less common in most areas. However, as another counterexample, some of the major congressional proponents of SSM in New York State were Republicans. Now there may be many reasons for them to do this other than idealism, and Republicans in NYS are sort of like Democrats in Texas before they went completely red\*, but it is another counterexample to the thesis. \*Witness the spectacular downfall of more than one Teahadist in NYS in the 2010 election. ---
**Author:** ![zookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/9dc877/32.png) [@zookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zookies)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/90 "2012-04-19T17:01:22Z")
Are Repub’s in New York for SSM or for a SSM ballot measure? At least California has put it to the voters rather than deem it so by the courts. (or court jesters) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/91 "2012-04-19T17:05:55Z")
> [@zookies](#): > > Are Repub’s in New York for SSM or for a SSM ballot measure? Same-sex marriage became legal here about a year ago as the result of a change in the law. Some Republicans in the state legislature did support it, and the measure would have failed in the assembly if they hadn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/92 "2012-04-19T17:51:10Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m conflicted here. While I don’t support the concept of “curing” gay people, isn’t there a free speech issue involved, too? The article doesn’t really address that. they don’t have free speech in the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/93 "2012-04-19T17:52:04Z")
But that’s okay, because we don’t have cake in America. ---
**Author:** ![Randvek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@Randvek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randvek)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/94 "2012-04-19T17:55:23Z")
Reminds me of a joke. What do you call a Democrat in the UK? A conservative. What do you call a Republican in the UK? A lunatic. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/95 "2012-04-19T21:55:00Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > But that’s okay, because we don’t have cake in America. Hey, you were offered “cake or death”. It’s not the UK’s fault Americans went for the other option. I’m _fairly_ sure that Boris doesn’t have the power to ban this sort of thing from all venues inside the M25, but TfL and the Mayor’s office do have responsibility for public transport and this was bus-side advertising. Free speech doesn’t mean a guaranteed platform to speak from, no matter what country you’re in. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/97 "2012-04-25T07:49:20Z")
> [@Riley103](#): > > Thanks you for the post. > > * * * > > _spam link deleted_ Thanks for nothing. Reported. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/98 "2012-04-25T09:56:21Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > they don’t have free speech in the UK. We may not have a bill of rights but the restrictions on free speech in the UK (libel, obscenity, national security, shouting fire in a theatre etc) are little different in practice to the US. The only real practical difference is that we have explicit rules on hate speech. And as I said upthread, while I can imagine ads like this running in the US, if you were to invert it to “we will turn you gay” I’m sure it would not be permitted on whatever grounds (e.g. obscenity). ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/99 "2012-04-25T21:18:20Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > they don’t have free speech in the UK. > > > [@Mijin](#): > > > > We may not have a bill of rights. . . [**The English Bill of Rights, 1689.**](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_bill_of_rights) Wikipedia: > [@](#): > > freedom of speech and debates or proceedings in Parliament ought not to be impeached or questioned in any court or place out of Parliament. > > . . . In the United Kingdom, the Bill of Rights is further accompanied by the [Magna Carta](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Carta), the [Petition of Right](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petition_of_Right), [Habeas Corpus Act 1679](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_Corpus_Act_1679) and [Parliament Acts 1911 and 1949](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_Acts_1911_and_1949) as some of the basic documents of the [uncodified](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unwritten_constitution) [British constitution](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_United_Kingdom).[[6]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_bill_of_rights#cite_note-5) A separate but similar document, the [Claim of Right Act](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claim_of_Right_Act_1689), applies in [Scotland](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland). The Bill of Rights (1688 or 1689) was one of the inspirations for the [United States Bill of Rights](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights).[_[citation needed](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)_] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039.md?page=4)