# Conservative policy successes **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 26, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-policy-successes/667234 "2013-08-26T18:44:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-policy-successes/667234/21 "2013-08-26T22:09:12Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > You might as well say D-Day was a liberal policy. Then why did many politicians criticize and oppose the Surge and even initially call it a “failure”? > [@](#): > > Who was president during NAFTA? > Nuclear power plants really boomed during the Truman and the relatively liberal Eisenhower administrations. I actually hesitated before putting those two here but from what I’ve seen liberals outside of forums like these mostly oppose free-trade and nuclear power while conservatives mostly support these policies. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-policy-successes/667234/22 "2013-08-26T22:19:53Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Nuclear power plants really boomed during the Truman and the relatively liberal Eisenhower administrations. Nitpick: the first commercial nuclear power plant didn’t open until Eisenhower’s second term. And some were built in the 60’s, but nuclear power didn’t really take off until the 70’s. But it’s difficult to say that was a “policy” of either party. Or a success. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-policy-successes/667234/23 "2013-08-26T22:33:29Z")
If you consider the goal of permissive gun laws to be permissive gun laws, then they’ve been a perfect success, but then, by that standard, _ever_ law that’s ever been passed has been a success. If you consider the goal of such laws to be increased safety, however (which is the goal most often expressed for them), then they’ve been a miserable failure. And opposition to nuclear power unfortunately seems to be rather bipartisan, though of course conservatives and liberals tend to oppose it for different reasons. Liberals tend to oppose it out of fear for environmental consequences, while conservatives tend to oppose it out of fear of terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-policy-successes/667234/24 "2013-08-26T22:34:33Z")
Another from the field of education: English-only instruction. ---
**Author:** ![Randvek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@Randvek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randvek)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-policy-successes/667234/25 "2013-08-26T22:48:51Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > Nitpick: the first commercial nuclear power plant didn’t open until Eisenhower’s second term. And some were built in the 60’s, but nuclear power didn’t really take off until the 70’s. But it’s difficult to say that was a “policy” of either party. Or a success. I would point more to the coal lobby finally giving up on Democrats and going full bore for Rs now as the bigger reason conservatives aren’t as high on nuclear power as they used to be. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-policy-successes/667234/26 "2013-08-27T02:35:41Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Support for nuclear power plants Not with much success. When’s the last time a new one was built here? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-policy-successes/667234/27 "2013-08-27T03:37:36Z")
A conservative seeks to maintain the status quo, so in that sense anything that is working and liberals want to change for the worse but fail is successful. In that sense obstruction is their achievement, but that’s only applicable as a success in the short term. Taken as a whole every great thing any social structure has ever accomplished is in spite of conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-policy-successes/667234/28 "2013-08-27T04:02:01Z")
I know this isn’t the united states, but nations like China and Vietnam abandoning planned economies in favor of market economies was a conservative/libertarian success. However those nations (esp china) have a very strong statist role in the economy still. Nonetheless deregulation did succeed there. Airline deregulation in the 1970s led to lower costs. However despite it being deregulation it was spearheaded by Ted Kennedy and signed by Carter. ---
**Author:** ![IceQube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@IceQube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IceQube)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-policy-successes/667234/29 "2013-08-27T04:25:25Z")
Some have asked me to clarify what I mean by “conservative policies.” Here is the clarification, copied and pasted from this thread’s counterpart > **[Liberal Policy Successes](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=700550)** > > I wanted to create an opposing thread to “Conservative Policy Successes.” So, what clear liberal policy successes are there? Please feel free to dispute any “clear” successes; this is GD. Note than an acceptable answer is “none.” "The goal if the threads is to determine whether it was liberal or conservative policies that have advanced us more. It was liberal at the time to support abolitionists. Now it’s assumed if both conservatives and liberals to uphold abolition, if at least publicly. Therefore, policies shall be defined as liberal or conservative given their historical contexts." ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-policy-successes/667234/30 "2013-08-27T05:49:06Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Another from the field of education: English-only instruction. By what metric are you judging the success of that program? And how does it compare to ESL programs? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-policy-successes/667234/31 "2013-08-27T07:33:31Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Then why did many politicians criticize and oppose the Surge and even initially call it a “failure”? Political sniping is not the same as ideology. Opposition to the surge, or support of it, was not based on either liberal or conservative principles. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-policy-successes/667234/32 "2013-08-27T07:35:02Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > Nitpick: the first commercial nuclear power plant didn’t open until Eisenhower’s second term. And some were built in the 60’s, but nuclear power didn’t really take off until the 70’s. But it’s difficult to say that was a “policy” of either party. Or a success. Yes, but there was lots of work and funding for commercial nuclear power all through the '50s. I agree that nuclear engineering is not ideological. ---
**Author:** ![DrumBum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e79b87/32.png) [@DrumBum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrumBum)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-policy-successes/667234/33 "2013-08-27T12:03:11Z")
This may not qualify as “policy” but the efforts by Bush 41 and Bush 43 to combat AIDS and malaria are considered a success here. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-policy-successes/667234/34 "2013-08-27T12:05:55Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > By what metric are you judging the success of that program? And how does it compare to ESL programs? Various studies. [This essay has an overview](http://www.gwu.edu/~ccps/pop_billing.html): > [@](#): > > Thirty years of research and experience yield a truly disappointing but emphatic “No” in answer to the question, “Are bilingual programs superior to other teaching approaches?” In the first ten years of practicing the bilingual education approach described earlier, it was understandable that judgments should not be hasty. Any new teaching method should be tried for several years by a large enough number of students to yield reliable results before it is judged successful or not. With bilingual education, it was necessary to start teacher training programs, recruit qualified teachers, write curricula, find suitable textbooksstart up a whole new industry, in effect. > > Beginning in 1978, the first large-scale, U.S. government-sponsored studies began to appear and they show almost no positive results for native language teaching. From that time on, the reports published by local, state and federal agencies and summarized below show little or no positive results for the native language teaching approach. > > 1978 - American Institutes for Research (AIR) - Spanish-speaking students in bilingual programs have less success in learning English than students receiving no special help at all. These students learn math equally well if they are taught in Spanish and English or English alone. > > 1981 - Baker - deKanter Report (U.S. Department of Education) - The case for the effectiveness of Transitional Bilingual Education is so weak that exclusive reliance on this instructional method is clearly not justified. > > 1988 - Dade County, Florida, 3-Year Curriculum Content Project - Limited-English students learned as much subject matter if they were taught in English or if they were taught in Spanishno advantage for native language teaching. > > 1992 - El Paso, Texas, 10-Year Project - Limited-English students in English immersion classes out-performed children in Spanish bilingual classes in learning English and in learning school subjects. > > 1992 - California State Study - Results of 20 years of bilingual education: Poor quality of bilingual programs; no evidence that native language teaching is beneficial; students kept in bilingual classes years after they learn English. > > 1994 - Massachusetts State Study - Results of 23 years of bilingual: No evidence that bilingual programs produce good or bad results; no data evaluating academic performance of limited-English students. > > 1994 -New York City Study-Limited-English students in English as a Second Language classes exited their special program faster (3 years) and did better in regular classrooms than students taught in their native language (7 years). > > 1997 - National Research Council Study - on 30 years of bilingual education research: “We do not know whether there will be long-term advantages or disadvantages to initial literacy instruction in the primary language versus English.” > > (Prepared by R. P. Porter, New York University School of Law Symposium, 2/27/97.) Both English-immersion and bilingual education are ESL programs, in that the goal of both is to teach the student English. English immersion teaches English first, then works on the other subjects, while traditional '60s-style bilingual education teaches in the student’s native tongue while phasing in English over several years. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-policy-successes/667234/35 "2013-08-27T13:00:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If you consider the goal of permissive gun laws to be permissive gun laws, then they’ve been a perfect success, but then, by that standard, _ever_ law that’s ever been passed has been a success. If you consider the goal of such laws to be increased safety, however (which is the goal most often expressed for them), then they’ve been a miserable failure. First of all this just isn’t true. However, even if it were true that guns being legal meant increased gun deaths that still doesn’t prove anything. If you only look at safety and nothing else, cars are a disaster and should be banned immediately! Think of all the lives saved. Of course safety isn’t the only and isn’t the most important factor in gun rights. It’s about freedom, not safety. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-policy-successes/667234/36 "2013-08-27T14:09:05Z")
Sticking to my lifetime, deregulation of the air and trucking industries, Reaganomics, free trade, the Cold War, broken windows policing, longer prison sentences, gun rights, welfare reform, ending bilingual education, charter schools, the surge, right to work laws, neoliberalism, and acid rain cap and trade. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-policy-successes/667234/37 "2013-08-27T14:12:05Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > If you only look at safety and nothing else, cars are a disaster and should be banned immediately! Think of all the lives saved. Cars are far safer today than they were 30-40 years ago. Agreed? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-policy-successes/667234/38 "2013-08-27T14:16:53Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Sticking to my lifetime, deregulation of the air and trucking industries, Reaganomics, free trade, the Cold War, broken windows policing, longer prison sentences, gun rights, welfare reform, ending bilingual education, charter schools, the surge, right to work laws, neoliberalism, and acid rain cap and trade. Longer prison sentences? I think even conservatives are wishing that we didn’t go down that road. And, have we ended bilingual education? I haven’t noticed. I think the right to work laws contributed to wage stagnation and the decline of the American middle class. I do think that Airline deregulation has been an overall positive. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-policy-successes/667234/39 "2013-08-27T14:20:25Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Sticking to my lifetime, deregulation of the air and trucking industries, Reaganomics, free trade, the Cold War, broken windows policing, longer prison sentences, gun rights, welfare reform, ending bilingual education, charter schools, the surge, right to work laws, neoliberalism, and acid rain cap and trade. Air deregulation: Does anyone think air service is better now than in the past? Or that we’re better off with fewer airlines? Reaganomics: A complete failure. It was the beginning of the conservative “Yes, there’s a free lunch and we’re going to eat it.” Cut taxes for billionaires and pretend it’s going to help the rest of us, and con enough stupid poor people to believe in the voodoo so that you can get elected. The Cold War: Not a conservative victory. The USSR collapsed under internal pressure, not because of anything the US did and certainly not because of a senile cowboy actor playing the role of president. Longer prison sentences: Now we have a higher percentage of the population behind bars than anyone else. What has it accomplished? Gun “rights” Thanks to a Republican majority on the court, 5 justices decided the first half of The Holy Second Amendment doesn’t matter. Ending bilingual education: I suppose a lot of new Americans would disagree. Charter schools: Euphenism for weakening the public schools The Holy Surge: Bunch of crap. Iraq was broken before The Holy Surge, is broken now, and will never be fixed. Going into Iraq in the first place was a conservative debacle. Right to work laws: Euphemism for union busting. Corporations buy a state legislature and governor and get to fuck over their workers more. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-policy-successes/667234/40 "2013-08-27T15:08:34Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > Cars are far safer today than they were 30-40 years ago. Agreed? Correct, but completely irrelevant to the point I was making. If it matters, guns are safer today than 30-40 years ago also. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-policy-successes/667234.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-policy-successes/667234.md?page=3)