# Conservative response to BP spill: unwad your panties **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 2, 2010, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-response-to-bp-spill-unwad-your-panties/538035 "2010-05-02T15:34:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-response-to-bp-spill-unwad-your-panties/538035/41 "2010-05-02T21:05:14Z")
So some cites. I went to the front page of American SPectator, and found an article with [these quotes](http://spectator.org/archives/2010/04/30/drill-barry-drill): > [@](#): > > he science bears out that offshore drilling is extremely safe. The occasional spill happens, but they are rare and typically quite small. > > The Energy Information Administration has determined that offshore drilling within the USA’s Exclusive Economic Zone has a 99.999 percent safety rate, meaning that only .0001 percent of extracted oil has been spilled. > > In fact, natural seepage leaks far more oil into the oceans than man-made spills do, according to a joint study by NASA and the Smithsonian Institution. The study found that natural underground leaks put an average of 62 million gallons of oil a year into the world’s oceans. Offshore drilling? Just 15 million gallons a year. Tanker spills leak 37 million gallons a year. > > Just as importantly, major spills seem to produce terrifying visuals at the time, but little if any lasting ecological damage. At [National Review](http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/13217/spill-baby-spill), we get this gem: > [@](#): > > Permit me a brief, passing moment of black-helicopters paranoia. President Obama announces a change in national policy on offshore drilling, and 20 days later a platform explodes, creating an environmental disaster that, we’re told, may be worse than the Exxon Valdez. That’s timing so perfect it’s usually associated with Abbott and Costello. There are a lot of folks who passionately opposed the possibility of expanded offshore drilling and who would have the motive to help “enable” an accident that discredited the policy. And others have pointed to Rush Limbaugh’s statements. The NRO and Spectator were the first links I clicked on, and they’re the first right-wing opinion-makers I thought of. Are there others that are more influential? ---
**Author:** ![Creole\_Tomato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@Creole\_Tomato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Creole_Tomato)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-response-to-bp-spill-unwad-your-panties/538035/42 "2010-05-02T21:15:52Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Would the drill, baby, drill crowd latch onto something like that uncritically? Probably. Just like many on this MB will latch onto the OP’s declaration that this is the “conservative position” uncritically. Not once did I say I believed that to be the “conservative position.” In fact, I believe I went to some lengths to say that I did NOT expect that to be the conservative position. Speaking of latching onto something uncritically… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-response-to-bp-spill-unwad-your-panties/538035/43 "2010-05-02T21:25:25Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > …You’re probably right, but for the kiddies, wanna spell out the DFH position? An exercise in futility, or blind hope. Ah, well, its what we do, isn’t it? American “culture” has turned into a consumerist pit, a huge machine that grinds up natural resources at one end and produces loud, shiny crap at the other. We don’t need this shit, nobody needs this shit, we just think we do because the people who make a living selling this shit have conned us into thinking we do. As a classic example, passing tax breaks through Congress so that SUV’s can be sold more readily. Monumentally stupid, short-sighted, and wasteful. We screamed our heads off, nobody listened. Bad news is someday we will really regret it. Good news is, we probably won’t regret it for very long. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-response-to-bp-spill-unwad-your-panties/538035/44 "2010-05-02T21:31:57Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’m not latching onto anything being the conservative position. I didn’t mean to imply that you had. > [@](#): > > That quote, however, is clearly a money quote in the article. Do you think such an absurd idea would show up in an objective article? It’s the quote that distinguishes the story from reasonable journalism; ergo the money quote. Again, I don’t know what a “money quote” is, and I don’t know that there even has to be one in every article, or this one for that matter. The article doesn’t appear to be very well written, as far as I can tell. > [@](#): > > And I’m not latching onto anything; on the contrary, I’m asking, **critically** , what would constitute a significant example of a conservative position. So far we’ve got somebody writing for Newt Gingrich’s organization, and unnamed talking heads on unnamed TV shows. I’m not sure your examples are more persuasively the conservative position. (They may well be, with specifics; but until I see specifics, I’ll hold out.) I think I made it clear that I was taking a stab at what the conservative position seems to be. In fact, I would say that it’s too early to figure out what the conservative position will be (we’re still in the midst of this crisis), and it might be that there isn’t any one position that we can point to. > [@CT](#): > > Not once did I say I believed that to be the “conservative position.” In fact, I believe I went to some lengths to say that I did NOT expect that to be the conservative position. Speaking of latching onto something uncritically… I guess I must’ve been confused by the title you chose for your thread. And yes you did clarify later, but I was talking about what reaction we’d get on this MB. And, as I think about it, what actually is the debate here? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-response-to-bp-spill-unwad-your-panties/538035/45 "2010-05-02T21:57:01Z")
> [@](#): > > **Ponch8** : It’s always conservatives who claim to be on the side of small business… Maybe in a campaign song. Other than that, Republicans are the big business guys and Democrats are the supporters of the small business folks. Remember that Cheney resigned as the CEO of Halliburton Oil before becoming Vice President of the United States. Bush was (is?) also an oil man. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-response-to-bp-spill-unwad-your-panties/538035/46 "2010-05-02T22:31:45Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > I have been to [this](http://www.leapingfromthebox.com/blog/uploaded_images/seagrass-741675.jpg) [Gulf coast](http://www.apalachicolabay.org/image/photoAlbum/Heron%20on%20Beach%20Bickel.jpg) [beach](http://www.seaturtlesatrisk.org/leatherback%20turtle.gif), now in the path of the oil slick. Been going there for 20 years, and haven’t seen anything like what’s headed there now. So explain your post, please. It may not happen in all parts of the Gulf Coast, but around Galveston, there’s been natural tar balls on the beaches for a very long time. Apparently the local Indians used them, and so did some shipwrecked Spaniards in the 1500s. Here are some cites for both the tar balls and natural oil seeps in the Gulf. [An article on Galveston](http://www.utexas.edu/utpress/excerpts/exmccedg.html): [Or this article.](http://search.datapages.com/data/open/offer.do?target=%2Fgcags%2Fdata%2F023%2F023001%2F0158.htm) [How about this one?](http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/01/000127082228.htm) [Here’s another.](http://www.rense.com/general63/refil.htm) [How about some pictures?](http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=36873) [How about a cite in an article about the accident?](http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/deepwaterhorizon/6975535.html) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-response-to-bp-spill-unwad-your-panties/538035/47 "2010-05-02T22:33:53Z")
Great! Where can we sell tar balls? Will it sell better than chocolate covered cotton? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-response-to-bp-spill-unwad-your-panties/538035/48 "2010-05-02T22:45:08Z")
> [@bump](#): > > It may not happen in all parts of the Gulf Coast, but around Galveston, there’s been natural tar balls on the beaches for a very long time. Apparently the local Indians used them, and so did some shipwrecked Spaniards in the 1500s. Well, sure–it may well happen in certain places (and FWIW, I appreciate your teaching me about this phenomenon). At the same time, some folks are using natural oil seepage to suggest there’s no harm in artificial seepage. This is akin to suggesting that, because the Sahara has an ecosystem that requires very little rainfall, it’d be okay to drain wetlands. Natural systems develop ecosystems around them, and when humans come in, we tend to develop industry around those ecosystems. Disrupted ecosystems can fall apart until a nice chunk of time elapses, and in the meantime, industry that depends on that disrupted ecosystem also falls apart. **John** , sorry I got my back up at your post. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-response-to-bp-spill-unwad-your-panties/538035/49 "2010-05-02T22:52:08Z")
> [@bump](#): > > [How about this one?](http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/01/000127082228.htm) That one had an interesting quote in it: > [@](#): > > Using a technique they developed in the early 1990s to help explore for oil in the deep ocean, Earth Satellite Corporation scientists found that there are over 600 different areas where oil oozes from rocks underlying the Gulf of Mexico. The oil bubbles up from a cracks in ocean bottom sediments and spreads out with the wind to an to an area covering about 4 square miles. Ah, well now there are 601 areas where oil seeps into the Gulf, only the latest is a bore hole that connects an oil reservoir with the seabed, creating a 130- by 30- mile slick (or what is it now?) that has recently tripled in size and which shows no signs of slowing down… ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-response-to-bp-spill-unwad-your-panties/538035/50 "2010-05-02T23:03:25Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > You, however, did not actually answer the question posed to you, above. Who do YOU consider to be the Conservative News Outlet? I’m sure we’d all like to see what your favorite pundits are saying about this. I didn’t answer the question because it’s not a well-formed question. I don’t think there is any news outlet that speaks for “conservatives.” The idea that there is a “conservative” position on this oil spill is preposterous in and of itself. Have you ever notices that liberal SDMB posters are forever talking about the conservative position and that a certain person is the face of the conservatives? Do you see conservative SDMB posters doing that? I am ready to stand corrected, but I really don’t see that. > [@Frank](#): > > From the website: > > I suppose there is some way that the facts could be twisted to make it seem that Gingrich is not a conservative, not a prominent conservative, and not a face of conservatives, but I’m not certain how one would do that. You can’t just pick one guy and see he’s the face of the conservatives. And if you do that, you sure as hell can’t pick different guys on different issues depending on what they say. I bet I could google up something that Gingrich said sometime about something that you would not think represents the conservative position. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-response-to-bp-spill-unwad-your-panties/538035/51 "2010-05-02T23:11:43Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > An exercise in futility, or blind hope. Ah, well, its what we do, isn’t it? > > American “culture” has turned into a consumerist pit, a huge machine that grinds up natural resources at one end and produces loud, shiny crap at the other. We don’t need this shit, nobody needs this shit, we just think we do because the people who make a living selling this shit have conned us into thinking we do. > > As a classic example, passing tax breaks through Congress so that SUV’s can be sold more readily. Monumentally stupid, short-sighted, and wasteful. We screamed our heads off, nobody listened. > > Bad news is someday we will really regret it. Good news is, we probably won’t regret it for very long. Yeah… one real practical problem with the DFH movement is that they don’t have a very good military. So ultimately, what are they gonna do about it? Elect a hippie as CIC is probably your best bet dude. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-response-to-bp-spill-unwad-your-panties/538035/52 "2010-05-02T23:29:11Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > An exercise in futility, or blind hope. Ah, well, its what we do, isn’t it? > > American “culture” has turned into a consumerist pit, a huge machine that grinds up natural resources at one end and produces loud, shiny crap at the other. We don’t need this shit, nobody needs this shit, we just think we do because the people who make a living selling this shit have conned us into thinking we do. > > As a classic example, passing tax breaks through Congress so that SUV’s can be sold more readily. Monumentally stupid, short-sighted, and wasteful. We screamed our heads off, nobody listened. > > Bad news is someday we will really regret it. Good news is, we probably won’t regret it for very long. That’s more an exercise in stupidity than futility. It’s the last gasp of people so desperate for what they think is economic equality that they want to pull everyone down to their level, and they have religion (i.e., AGW) on their side. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-response-to-bp-spill-unwad-your-panties/538035/53 "2010-05-02T23:37:44Z")
In **elucidator** ’s defense (not that he needs it from me), I think you are distorting his motives. I doubt he is about ‘pulling everyone down to his level’. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-response-to-bp-spill-unwad-your-panties/538035/54 "2010-05-02T23:37:53Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > That’s more an exercise in stupidity than futility. It’s the last gasp of people so desperate for what they think is economic equality that they want to pull everyone down to their level, and they have religion (i.e., AGW) on their side. :Sigh: It is not religion, stop spewing ignorance **Rand Rover**. [http://www.aip.org/history/climate/co2.htm](http://www.aip.org/history/climate/co2.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-response-to-bp-spill-unwad-your-panties/538035/55 "2010-05-03T00:37:05Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I didn’t answer the question because it’s not a well-formed question. I don’t think there is any news outlet that speaks for “conservatives.” The idea that there is a “conservative” position on this oil spill is preposterous in and of itself. There may not be a Conservative mouthpiece that you like… but that doesn’t mean that that Limbaugh, Beck, and Hannity don’t speak for many Conservatives. Or is there No True Conservative in your book? > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Have you ever notices that liberal SDMB posters are forever talking about the conservative position and that a certain person is the face of the conservatives? Do you see conservative SDMB posters doing that? I am ready to stand corrected, but I really don’t see that. I’ve certainly noticed Conservative posters pointing to the occasional left-wing loon and saying that he’s indicative of the entire Liberal movement. I’ve also noticed that Conservatives like to generalize the actions of Liberals… and then immediately accuse Liberals of doing the exact same thing. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-response-to-bp-spill-unwad-your-panties/538035/56 "2010-05-03T00:49:29Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > I’ve certainly noticed Conservative posters pointing to the occasional left-wing loon and saying that he’s indicative of the entire Liberal movement. I’ve also noticed that Conservatives like to generalize the actions of Liberals… and then immediately accuse Liberals of doing the exact same thing. Oh, yeah, it definitely happens. There are clearly more liberals than conservatives here, but there are a number of conservatives who routinely post what the “liberal” position is, or how “liberals” think. I can easily think of half a dozen posters who do that, and that’s without even thinking very hard. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-response-to-bp-spill-unwad-your-panties/538035/57 "2010-05-03T01:40:03Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > You can’t just pick one guy and see he’s the face of the conservatives. OK, pick a representative group of a half-dozen of them, or whatever. We’re not that particular with respect to your choice of integer. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-response-to-bp-spill-unwad-your-panties/538035/58 "2010-05-03T02:09:53Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > for the kiddies, wanna spell out the DFH position? **elucidator** ’s given his take, but let me give mine too, since I also consider myself part of that group. 1. We really could get by with a lot less oil than we currently consume, without a substantial sacrifice of wealth or comfort. (It’s just [a matter of time](http://gas2.org/2010/03/10/kuwaiti-scientists-say-peak-oil-will-arrive-in-2014/) until peak oil kicks in and forces the issue anyway.) 2. We currently consume about 20 million barrels of oil a day, and only 5 million of that is domestically produced. It’s not like our offshore oil production is somehow making that much of a difference. All it does is have a modest effect on the global price of oil. ‘Drill, baby, drill’ is as stupid an idea as there is: the U.S. hit peak production _40 years ago_, fercryinoutloud, and has been in steady decline ever since. There’s really little we can do about that. 3. The oil companies, like pretty much any big and influential industry, [have been able to defeat efforts to improve the safety](http://www.whistleblower.org/blog/31-2010/534-troubling-details-emerge-about-bps-oil-platform-explosion) of such drilling operations. Of course, during the eight years preceding January 20, 2009, George W. Bush was in the White House, giving the oil companies whatever they wanted. But even now, a combination of Business Dog Democrats (who give big business what they want because they know where their bread’s buttered) and Republicans (who’ll give it away for free) makes it hard to change the status quo without a major disaster like this. And after GWB’s been fucking up the country for eight years, it’s not like deepwater drilling safety was near the top of either Obama’s or the left’s to-do list. The Republicans are obviously a much bigger part of the problem than the ‘centrist’ Dems, but the real problem is that political power follows economic power a bit too closely in our political system. So in an ideal world, we’d be phasing out offshore drilling, and insisting on much more stringent safety measures where we’re doing it: if Brazil and Norway can have remote-controlled shutoff switches down there, surely the U.S. oil companies can afford them too. But we’re not in that world, because of a combination of power, stupidity, and malevolence. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-response-to-bp-spill-unwad-your-panties/538035/59 "2010-05-03T03:00:35Z")
Just thought this quote would be a ton of fun to throw into the conversation: > [@](#): > > He stopped to speak to several fishermen, assuring them that BP would reimburse them for lost earnings. But reimbursement may be one of the largest battles to come, given that federal law sets a limit of $75 million on BP’s liability for damages, apart from the cleanup costs. > > “It’s going to be extremely tricky” to reimburse fishermen and others if economic damages tally above $75 million, said Stuart Smith, a New Orleans-based lawyer who is pushing for Congressional action to amend the law. “They may not be obligated to pay more than that unless they agree to do it.” Looks like you are gonna have to unwad your panties all right… to mop up the oil spill that BP is not going to be reimbursing you for. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-response-to-bp-spill-unwad-your-panties/538035/60 "2010-05-03T13:27:01Z")
[There is more money](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/02/us/02liability.html) to reimburse people affected by the spill, just not directly from BP: > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON — The federal government has a large rainy day fund on hand to help mitigate the expanding damage on the Gulf Coast, generated by a tax on oil for use in cases like the Deepwater Horizon spill. > > Up to $1 billion of the $1.6 billion reserve could be used to compensate for losses from the accident, as much as half of it for what is sometimes a major category of costs: damage to natural resources like fisheries and other wildlife habitats. > > Under the law that established the reserve, called the Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund, the operators of the offshore rig face no more than $75 million in liability for the damages that might be claimed by individuals, companies or the government, although they are responsible for the cost of containing and cleaning up the spill. > > The fund was set up by Congress in 1986 but not financed until after the Exxon Valdez ran aground in Alaska in 1989. In exchange for the limits on liability, the Oil Pollution Act of 1990 imposed a tax on oil companies, currently 8 cents for every barrel they produce in this country or import. But sheesh, I’d want the drillers to be on the hook for amounts over and above what the fund can’t pay. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-response-to-bp-spill-unwad-your-panties/538035.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-response-to-bp-spill-unwad-your-panties/538035.md?page=4)