# Conservatives and/or Trump supporters, please explain to us liberals why we shouldn't be afraid **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 20, 2016, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263 "2016-12-20T21:33:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/61 "2016-12-21T21:29:54Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > If he tries to go too far there are more than enough moderate Republicans in Congress to rein him in. Really? Like who? The Moderate Republican has been sitting at the same table as the Woolly Mammoth and the Great Auk. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/62 "2016-12-21T21:36:13Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > …If he tries to go too far there are more than enough moderate Republicans in Congress to rein him in… Oh? Well, good, but just for reassurance, how many would that be? Would that include the “Never Trump” Republicans who have been rather quiet, of late? You depending on them, or maybe the ones who have had their Come to Donald Moment and seen the Darkness? They are going to stand up to him? Will they stop him on immigration deform? Will they stand firm against shitting on Muslims and gays? No, they will cheerfully cooperate on that. So, what do you expect they are going to “rein him in” on? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/63 "2016-12-21T21:47:46Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Many people really did fear what Obama would do to the country, establish socialism, tear up the Constitution, etc. I thought those fears just as ridiculous as I think the fear of Trump is now, that he’s going to become a dictator and (yep) tear up the Constitution. The US isn’t a banana republic; it has safeguards in place against a too overbearing President. Really, you guys seem to have no faith in your country at all. > > As for illegal immigrants Trump has said time and time again that his main focus will be on immigrants who commit crimes, although liberals constantly pretend that he’s going to be swooping down and frog-marching toddlers to the cattle trucks. > > Trump is going to do things that you don’t like. Get used to it. If he tries to go too far there are more than enough moderate Republicans in Congress to rein him in. The hysteria expressed by liberals since Trump’s victory and their pathetic attempts to undermine him and delegitimize his Presidency have been as embarrassing as they are futile. Trump is not Hitler. To adapt the words of a great former President (one of your own) the only thing you people have to fear is fear itself. The reason to fear Trump isn’t that he’ll build a wall (he won’t), or that he’ll deport millions of people (he won’t), or that he’ll start a trade war with China (he won’t), or that he’ll find a way to enrich himself while in office (he will). The reason to fear Trump is that he’s a dangerous buffoon that is easily manipulated by those skilled at flattery and appealing to his narcissism. He is the very definition of the Kruger-Dunning effect and he’ll be the perfect puppet for anyone with an arm long enough to shove it up his ass to make his lips move. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/64 "2016-12-21T21:55:15Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I predict the think we need fear most from a Trump presidency will be the total and complete lack of transparency. Trump will fail to be transparent because he’s a successful liar. His cabinet will not be transparent because they have other agenda’s to pursue. We’ll have no idea how deep and far reaching his screw ups will be. > > This nation needs another Carl Bernstein and Bob Woodward peeking over the Cheetos’ shoulder. Trump cannot tolerate criticism. He has already said that he wants to change laws so that he can sue any media entity that published something he doesn’t like. And he has before him the shining example of Gawker being put out of business by his ardent supporter Peter Thiel, who bankrolled Hulk Hogan’s libel suit against the site.\* Trump would like to put _The New York Times_ and _The Washington Post_ out of business. He would like it very much.\*\* (And of course, not just the Times. How will this site fare, for example, if it’s hit with massive lawsuits–not just under existing laws, but under any enhanced libel laws that state legislatures, eager to qualify for federal goodies, might be willing to enact…? If Trump gets his way, there will be no Woodward, no Bernstein. There won’t even be little ol’ us, commenting on what Trump does. There will be nothing but Hymns of Praise throughout the land. (_Or else_.) - [https://thinkprogress.org/trump-taps-peter-thiel-to-join-presidential-transition-team-bdedf6790eee#.wx3ehraqq](https://thinkprogress.org/trump-taps-peter-thiel-to-join-presidential-transition-team-bdedf6790eee#.wx3ehraqq) \*\* > [@](#): > > Donald Trump said on Friday he plans to change libel laws in the United States so that he can have an easier time suing news organizations. > > During a rally in Fort Worth, Texas, Trump began his usual tirade against newspapers such as The New York Times and The Washington Post, saying they’re “losing money” and are “dishonest.” The Republican presidential candidate then took a different turn, suggesting that when he’s president they’ll “have problems.” > > “One of the things I’m going to do if I win, and I hope we do and we’re certainly leading. I’m going to open up our libel laws so when they write purposely negative and horrible and false articles, we can sue them and win lots of money. We’re going to open up those libel laws. So when The New York Times writes a hit piece which is a total disgrace or when The Washington Post, which is there for other reasons, writes a hit piece, we can sue them and win money instead of having no chance of winning because they’re totally protected,” Trump said. [http://www.politico.com/blogs/on-media/2016/02/donald-trump-libel-laws-219866](http://www.politico.com/blogs/on-media/2016/02/donald-trump-libel-laws-219866) ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/65 "2016-12-21T22:20:55Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > He has already said that he wants to change laws so that he can sue any media entity that published something he doesn’t like. And he has before him the shining example of Gawker being put out of business by his ardent supporter Peter Thiel, who bankrolled Hulk Hogan’s libel suit against the site. To be fair, for now he seems to be retreating on this idea, mainly because someone pointed out to him. “You know, you might be sued a lot more.” ([Why Trump isn’t likely to open up libel laws](http://nypost.com/2016/11/22/why-trump-isnt-likely-to-open-up-libel-laws/)) ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/66 "2016-12-21T22:28:54Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > To be fair, for now he seems to be retreating on this idea, mainly because someone pointed out to him. “You know, you might be sued a lot more.” ([Why Trump isn’t likely to open up libel laws](http://nypost.com/2016/11/22/why-trump-isnt-likely-to-open-up-libel-laws/)) The Post seems remarkably certain of _which_ of Trump’s self-contradictory statements he will adhere to. All I know is that he has not, to date, shown that he can tolerate criticism. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/67 "2016-12-21T22:44:22Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Many people really did fear what Obama would do to the country, establish socialism, tear up the Constitution, etc. Apples and oranges. Obama was a moderate Democrat with a detailed plan of governance, and reasonable people could easily foresee most of what he would attempt to do. Paranoid speculations about extreme doomsday scenarios are not what we’re talking about here. [QUOTE=aldiboronti] I thought those fears just as ridiculous as I think the fear of Trump is now, that he’s going to become a dictator and (yep) tear up the Constitution. [/quote] This is largely a strawman. The OP didn’t ask you for reasons not to fear Trump “becoming a dictator” or “tearing up the Constitution”. There are plenty of other **much more realistic** negative outcomes to worry about. You responded to concerns over environmental issues by assuring us that President Trump wouldn’t **literally destroy the earth** , and now you’re responding to concerns over more general governance issues by assuring us that President Trump won’t **literally become a dictator or revoke the Constitution**. Are you really not aware that there is **lots of extremely credible middle ground between those extreme doomsday scenarios and “no reason at all to fear”**? [QUOTE=aldiboronti] As for illegal immigrants Trump has said time and time again that his main focus will be on immigrants who commit crimes [/quote] Oh, so when you said _“Yes, if you’re an illegal alien you have cause to fear him, but then that’s the consequence of entering a country illegally”_, you were just bullshitting about the mere fact of undocumented status being a cause for deportation? Sheesh, Trump supporters can’t even keep straight from one discussion to the next what **they** expect him to do (though tbh Trump’s flipflopping is so convoluted that one can’t really blame them). Make up your mind, **aldiboronti** : is Trump going to be instituting mass deportations of millions of undocumented immigrants simply for being undocumented, because _“that’s the consequence of entering a country illegally”_, or is he going to confine the crackdown to _“immigrants who commit crimes”_? [QUOTE=aldiboronti] Trump is going to do things that you don’t like. [/quote] We’re absolutely sure of that. What we’re asking you in this thread is: **what things will those be?** And **why do you feel confident that none of them qualify as a cause for serious concern about Trump’s Presidency?** [QUOTE=aldiboronti] If he tries to go too far there are more than enough moderate Republicans in Congress to rein him in. [/quote] How many? Can you name, say, any five of these so-called “moderate Republicans” that you feel can be trusted to “rein him in”? What sort of action, specifically, would count as Trump “going too far” in the view of these “moderates”? [QUOTE=aldiboronti] Trump is not Hitler. [/QUOTE] As I’ve been saying all along, the problem with such reassurances is that _ **they are setting the bar way too fucking low** _. No rational person in the world thinks that Trump is literally as bad as Hitler, so that particular reassurance is not necessary. But the issue you’re consistently failing to confront is that **a President can do a hell of a lot of damage in the nation and the world without being anywhere near as bad as Hitler**. And that is a very reasonable thing to be concerned about with a President as ignorant, irresponsible, unstable, and greedy as Trump. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/68 "2016-12-21T22:54:08Z")
Originally Posted by aldiboronti “Trump is not Hitler.” I think you just came up with the bumper sticker for 2020. BTW may 2020 live up to its namesake and provide some clarity in the electorate that was sorely missing in 2016. Amen. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/69 "2016-12-21T22:54:24Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I’m neither a conservative nor a Trump supporter - I’m not even American - but Americans are indeed freaking out over nothing, purely because\*\* he hasn’t actually done anything.\*\* He isn’t even President for another month. He has nominated quite a few very troubling people for Cabinet positions. But that’s not anything, right? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/70 "2016-12-21T23:17:04Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > If he tries to go too far there are more than enough moderate Republicans in Congress to rein him in. … In the first place, no, there aren’t. And in the second place, note this: **Trump posse browbeats Hill Republicans** _Lawmakers are loath to say anything remotely critical, fearful they might set off the president-elect or his horde of enforcers._ My bold. > [@](#): > > In early December, Rep. \*\*Bill Flores made what seemed like an obvious observation to a roomful of conservatives \*\*at a conference in Washington. Some of Donald Trump’s proposals, the Texas Republican cautioned, “are not going to line up very well with our conservative policies," though he quickly added that there was plenty the incoming president and GOP Congress could accomplish together. > > **Little did Flores realize the hell that would soon rain down from Trump’s throng of enforcers.** > > Breitbart seized on Flores’ remarks a few days later, calling them proof that House Republicans planned to “isolate and block President Donald Trump’s populist campaign promises.” A conservative populist blogger for the site TruthFeed then **warned Flores on Twitter to “get ready for a shit storm,”** and posted a headline that read: “BREAKING: Rep. Bill Flores Has CRAFTED a PLAN to BLOCK Trump’s Immigration Reform.” > … > It’s a novel form of party message discipline that stems from Trump but doesn’t necessarily require the president-elect to speak or tweet himself. Plenty of others are willing to do it for him. > > Since the election, numerous congressional Republicans have refused to publicly weigh in on any Trump proposal at odds with Republican orthodoxy, from his border wall to his massive infrastructure package. The most common reason, stated repeatedly but always privately: **They’re afraid of being attacked by Breitbart or other big-name Trump supporters.** > > “Nobody wants to go first,” said Rep. Mark Sanford (R-S.C.), who received nasty phone calls, letters and tweets after he penned an August op-ed in The New York Times, calling on Trump to release his tax returns. “People are naturally reticent to be the first out of the block for fear of Sean Hannity, for fear of Breitbart, for fear of local folks.” > > An editor at Breitbart, formerly run by senior Trump adviser Steve Bannon, said that fear is well-founded. > > “If any politician in either party veers from what the voters clearly voted for in a landslide election … we stand at the ready to call them out on it and hold them accountable,” the person said. (Trump won the Electoral College handily but lost the popular vote by 2 percentage points.) > … > > [Cite](http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/donald-trump-congress-republicans-232800) ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/71 "2016-12-22T08:33:00Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > [flaming orange walrus’s] instincts seem to be non-interventionist. > **[Trump Favors Regime Change in Iran, Says He’ll Attack Them Over Rude Gestures](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2016/09/trump-says-hell-attack-iran-over-rude-gestures.html)** > > While accusing Clinton of being trigger-happy, Trump seemed to indicate that wounded pride was reason enough for war. I think Trump just gave you the bird flip on that. > **[Donald Trump, After Blasting Iraq War, Picks Top Iraq Hawk as Security Adviser](https://theintercept.com/2016/09/12/donald-trump-after-blasting-iraq-war-picks-top-iraq-hawk-as-security-adviser/)** > > James Woolsey, who left the CIA in 1995, went on to become one of Washington’s most outspoken promoters of U.S. war in Iraq and the Middle East. No interventionst vibes from that Trumpino? Or the following rotter, whose book _Field of Fight_, is, kinda, wwwelllllll, intervention-y, kinda? [http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/flynns-warped-worldview-and-trumps-foreign-policy/](http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/flynns-warped-worldview-and-trumps-foreign-policy/) (not exactly an immediate go-to source of mine) > [@puddleglum](#): > > …he has plenty of level headed people to advise him. Name one. > [@puddleglum](#): > > There will be no voter suppression. Prescient speculation notwithstanding - cite. Not sure if I should hold out much hope for what Trump might accomplish with infrastructure. Even though I’m north of the border I’m definitely not dancing any jig over what the next four years might have in store. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/72 "2016-12-22T14:14:04Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Your ignorance of American politics may excuse your lack of concern about Trump’s nominees for Cabinet & other posts. Lady, if he tells the Russian Ambassador to move into the White House and orders the Atlantic Fleet to sail to Murmansk to be interned, then yeah there is a reason to freak out. Until it happens, no need to get your blood pressure riled up ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/73 "2016-12-22T14:26:20Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Lady, if he tells the Russian Ambassador to move into the White House and orders the Atlantic Fleet to sail to Murmansk to be interned, then yeah there is a reason to freak out. Until it happens, no need to get your blood pressure riled up :rolleyes: Looks like I’m going to need a macro to save constantly re-typing the following quote: > [@Kimstu](#): > > As I’ve been saying all along, the problem with such reassurances is that _ **they are setting the bar way too fucking low** _. There is a **whole** lot of cause for concern in the broad middle ground between _“tells the Russian Ambassador to move into the White House”_ and _“nothing to worry about”_. It is remarkable how cavalierly the conservatives and Trump supporters seem to be tossing around these speculative straw scenarios, like climate science deniers blithely telling people not to worry about global warming because it’s unlikely to the point of impossibility that the Earth will **literally cease to exist**. :dubious: Not all that comforting, actually. I guess what they’re trying to tell us (or trying to avoid telling us) is that **they got absolutely nothin’ in the way of credible reassurance about the many _realistic_ causes for concern** that the OP and other posters have been asking about. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/74 "2016-12-22T14:56:29Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I’ve seen several conservatives and Trump supporters talk about how us liberals are freaking out over nothing. > > So if you can, explain why we are wrong to be worried (I mean that respectfully to start a discussion). Looking at how some people on the right freaked out about Obama, none of what they freaked out about came to pass (economic collapse, massive gun control, fema camps, etc). > > I can’t speak for all liberals but I am afraid of the following things. > > [ul] > [li]People losing health care due to repeal of ACA and/or voucherization of medicare[/li][li]Trump’s naivety and overemotional responses causing international incidents or possibly military action[/li][li]Restrictions on the civil/human rights of minorities and historically oppressed groups (voter suppression, muslim registries, breaking up immigrant families, etc)[/li][li]Loss of international respect for America[/li][li]Higher risk of a terror attack (due to Trump not going to intel briefings, and ISIL possibly knowing Trump will overreact and play into their hands by engaging in a land war)[/li][li]Environmental degradation/climate change[/li][/ul] Just to touch on a couple of those items… People are losing health care BECAUSE of ACA. Getting rid of it is a good thing. It is one of the worst pieces of legislation ever passed by Congress. Obama has already made us an international laughing stock. Your fear of loss of respect is way late. There is, and has been, absolutely absolutely no indication of future environmental degradation. And Trump sure as hell isn’t in charge of climate change. That would be The Sun. The rest of the items really don’t need to be responded to, simply because they are just Chicken Little squawkings. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/75 "2016-12-22T15:18:14Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Lady, if he tells the Russian Ambassador to move into the White House and orders the Atlantic Fleet to sail to Murmansk to be interned, then yeah there is a reason to freak out. Until it happens, no need to get your blood pressure riled up I’m sure conservatives would find a way to hand-wave these things away too. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/76 "2016-12-22T15:22:34Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Just to touch on a couple of those items… > > People are losing health care BECAUSE of ACA. Getting rid of it is a good thing. It is one of the worst pieces of legislation ever passed by Congress. > > Obama has already made us an international laughing stock. Your fear of loss of respect is way late. > > There is, and has been, absolutely absolutely no indication of future environmental degradation. And Trump sure as hell isn’t in charge of climate change. That would be The Sun. > > The rest of the items really don’t need to be responded to, simply because they are just Chicken Little squawkings. Ooops… not the pit. Damn. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/77 "2016-12-22T15:33:46Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > People are losing health care BECAUSE of ACA. Some people are, while other people are **gaining** health care because of ACA. It is not honest debating to complain about the former while refusing to acknowledge the latter. In fact, the net impact of ACA has been to significantly increase the number of insured. As [this 2015 _Forbes_ article notes](http://www.forbes.com/sites/brucejapsen/2015/05/06/aca-triggers-net-gain-of-16-9-million-more-insured-americans/#cbd82c46a85b), > [@](#): > > A new study by the RAND Corp., which looked at a sampling of 1,600 Americans and their “transitions” to and from forms of health coverage between September 2013 and February 2015 and found 22.8 million Americans gained coverage. There were 5.9 million people who also lost coverage, leaving a net increase of 16.9 million, according to the analysis, published in the journal Health Affairs. [QUOTE=Clothahump] Obama has already made us an international laughing stock. [/quote] Wrong. As I noted in an earlier response to **aldiboronti** (and why is it I have to keep repeating myself on these points, anyway? aren’t you people reading my carefully researched and crafted posts? :(), > [@Kimstu](#): > > That is actually pretty much [the exact opposite of the truth](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jul/28/barack-obama/mostly-true-obama-says-world-opinion-us-better-now/). > > > [@](#): > > > > The president [Obama] is […] generally right that world opinion of the United States has improved. […] > > In its 2015 survey of more than 130 countries, 45 percent approved of the job performance of the leadership of the United States, while 28 percent disapproved. That’s up 11 percent in favorability while down 6 percent unfavorability from 2008. [QUOTE=Clothahump] There is, and has been, absolutely absolutely no indication of future environmental degradation. And Trump sure as hell isn’t in charge of climate change. That would be The Sun. [/quote] :dubious: Okay, you are a full-bore climate science denier. Noted. (For the sake of readers who **haven’t** sworn themselves to permanent and willful ignorance on the subject of climate science, though, [here is NASA’s introductory summary](http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/).) > [@](#): > > The Earth’s climate has changed throughout history. Just in the last 650,000 years there have been seven cycles of glacial advance and retreat […] Most of these climate changes are attributed to very small variations in Earth’s orbit that change the amount of solar energy our planet receives. > > The current warming trend is of particular significance because most of it is very likely human-induced and proceeding at a rate that is unprecedented in the past 1,300 years. > > Earth-orbiting satellites and other technological advances […] [gather] many different types of information about our planet and its climate on a global scale. This body of data, collected over many years, reveals the signals of a changing climate. > > The heat-trapping nature of carbon dioxide and other gases was demonstrated in the mid-19th century. […] There is no question that increased levels of greenhouse gases must cause the Earth to warm in response. > > Ice cores drawn from Greenland, Antarctica, and tropical mountain glaciers show that the Earth’s climate responds to changes in greenhouse gas levels. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/78 "2016-12-22T15:36:42Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > The rest of the items really don’t need to be responded to Even if you’re going to handwave away those remaining points, there are plenty of others. What reasons do you have for thinking that we shouldn’t be worried about the following, for example? (I’m leaving out concerns about NASA/NOAA/etc. cuts and interference because naturally there’s no way that an ideologically committed climate science denier would be able to admit that those could be problems.) - Economic impacts of trading disputes with China and consequent increased tariffs on imports - Economic impacts of re-embracing failed “supply-side/trickle-down” economic policies that primarily focus on tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations - Conflicts of interest in which foreign countries influence the policy choices of President Trump by offering favors and benefits to Businessman Trump - Increased obstacles to working Americans’ right to organize due to Republican anti-labor policies - Increased attacks on abortion rights from the Supreme Court on down - Increased attacks on marriage equality and other civil rights of LGBTQ people - Impacts on seniors and the disabled of cuts to programs like Medicare and Medicaid. [Forbes again](http://www.forbes.com/sites/howardgleckman/2016/11/09/what-the-trump-presidency-means-for-seniors/#2dc67930367c): > [@](#): > > Trump has proposed a $6.2 trillion tax cut […] That’s bigger than any tax cut in modern US history, except for Ronald Reagan’s 1981 cuts. Including added interest expense, that plan would increase the national debt by $7 trillion over the next decade. […] > > If Congress finances these tax cuts with across-the-board domestic spending cuts—something like Trump’s penny plan—senior services will almost surely get caught in the squeeze. So may other programs important to older adults such as low-income senior housing and NIH research into dementia and other diseases of old age. […] > > […] the ACA […] also includes important changes in the way health care is delivered under Medicare. These include ways for doctors to better coordinate care, which is especially important for seniors with multiple chronic conditions. If Trump and a Republican Congress repeal the ACA (and they almost surely will) many of those reforms will die as well. […] > > Trump and the House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-WI) support capping the federal contribution to Medicaid […] Such a cap would limit the amount Medicaid will have available to pay providers such as nursing homes or home health agencies and will inevitably reduce care for seniors. > > Finally, there is the matter of Medicare and Social Security. Ryan and other House Republicans have been trying for years to cap the government’s share of Medicare, a step that would lead to huge jumps in premiums for seniors, and to limit Social Security benefits by raising the retirement age, change the cost of living index, or other adjustments. There are dozens more possibilities, but these will do for starters. Please explain why you think that none of these aims of the incoming Republican federal government provides any cause for concern. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/79 "2016-12-22T16:00:01Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > People are losing health care BECAUSE of ACA. Getting rid of it is a good thing. It is one of the worst pieces of legislation ever passed by Congress. Done. Gone.\* That was easy peasy. And thanks for providing reassuring alternative solutions. > [@Clothahump](#): > > Obama has already made us an international laughing stock. Well thank Gronk we have someone exemplary like Don to clean up that diplomatic mess. > [@Clothahump](#): > > There is, and has been, absolutely absolutely no indication of future environmental degradation. You _do_ realise who the new head of the EPA will be, right? Do you even know anything about him? \*hypothetical (just in case there might be anyone obtuse enough to try jump on that) ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/80 "2016-12-22T16:10:22Z")
> [@Eddie The Horrible](#): > > > [@puddleglum](#): > > > > [flaming orange walrus’s] instincts seem to be non-interventionist. This is a warning for changing text in the quote box. Normal editorial rules apply: that is, you may indicate omitted portions of a quote by the use of ellipses “…” and you may add text to clarify a word using square brackets (e.g., “her [the sister’s] friend”), but you may not add editorial comments or edit a quote so as to change the substantive meaning; nor may you substitute text such as “some blather” or “more nonsense” inside the [QUOTE] tags. [/moderating] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263.md?page=5)