# Conservatives and/or Trump supporters, please explain to us liberals why we shouldn't be afraid **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 20, 2016, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263 "2016-12-20T21:33:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/81 "2016-12-22T16:15:20Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > What reasons do you have for thinking that we shouldn’t be worried about the following, for example? … > > - Economic impacts of trading disputes with China and consequent increased tariffs on imports Yes, you should worry about this. Trump’s anti-free trade positions are wrong and stupid. > [@](#): > > - Economic impacts of re-embracing failed “supply-side/trickle-down” economic policies that primarily focus on tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations You can worry about this too, but I wouldn’t, since supply-side economics have not failed and don’t primarily focus on tax cuts for the wealthy. > [@](#): > > - Conflicts of interest in which foreign countries influence the policy choices of President Trump by offering favors and benefits to Businessman Trump Again, you can worry about this too if you like. Just like you could have worried about the Saudi contributions to the Clinton Foundation if Hillary had won the election, or the million dollars Obama got shortly after his election. > [@](#): > > - Increased obstacles to working Americans’ right to organize due to Republican anti-labor policies Republicans don’t have any anti-labor policies, so that shouldn’t be a worry. They oppose corruption and power grabs from big unions, but that isn’t the same thing. Unions in the US tend to create their own obstacles with their greed and short-sightedness, as witnessed by the collapse of Detroit and elsewhere, so if you want to worry, worry about that. > [@](#): > > - Increased attacks on abortion rights from the Supreme Court on down > > - Increased attacks on marriage equality and other civil rights of LGBTQ people Again, you can and should worry about this. And I hope your worries are fully justified, and that Trump nominates (and the Senate confirms) Justices who don’t make up laws out of nearly whole cloth. > [@](#): > > - Impacts on seniors and the disabled of cuts to programs like Medicare and Medicaid. Yes, definitely worry about that. Anyone who proposes cuts to Medicare is obviously a monster who should never be allowed near the Oval Office. ([Cite](http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20150202/NEWS/302029967).) Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/82 "2016-12-22T16:18:22Z")
> [@Eddie The Horrible](#): > > [Trump Says He’ll Attack Iran Over Rude Gestures](http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/09/trump-says-hell-attack-iran-over-rude-gestures.html) > > I think Trump just gave you the bird flip on that. > > [https://theintercept.com/2016/09/12/donald-trump-after-blasting-iraq-war-picks-top-iraq-hawk-as-security-adviser/](https://theintercept.com/2016/09/12/donald-trump-after-blasting-iraq-war-picks-top-iraq-hawk-as-security-adviser/) > > No interventionst vibes from that Trumpino? > > Or the following rotter, whose book _Field of Fight_, is, kinda, wwwelllllll, intervention-y, kinda? > > [http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/flynns-warped-worldview-and-trumps-foreign-policy/](http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/flynns-warped-worldview-and-trumps-foreign-policy/) (not exactly an immediate go-to source of mine) > > Name one. > > Prescient speculation notwithstanding - cite. > > Not sure if I should hold out much hope for what Trump might accomplish with infrastructure. > > Even though I’m north of the border I’m definitely not dancing any jig over what the next four years might have in store. Trump has some interventionist advisors and some non-interventionists. It is too soon to predict what he will be but there is no reason to think he would be more interventionist than the past presidents. James Mattis. Here is a [cite](http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-voter-suppression-myth-takes-another-hit-1419811042). ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/83 "2016-12-22T16:56:19Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You can worry about this too, but I wouldn’t, since supply-side economics have not failed and don’t primarily focus on tax cuts for the wealthy. :dubious: That’s nitpicking about [comparatively obscure dictionary definitions of “supply-side” that emphasize, e.g., progress toward a gold standard and monetary restraint as key features](http://www.forbes.com/sites/briandomitrovic/2012/12/11/ignorance-abounds-about-supply-side-economics/#5f54157b6509). The term “supply-side” as it’s commonly used, though, does indeed refer to that tax-cut-heavy approach, which **does** have a fairly lousy track record: > [@](#): > > Republicans understand the needs of business, we are told, and if the country would leave the economy in their hands business would boom. All we need to do is to give those at the very top of the income distribution – the “job creators” – more income through tax breaks […] Our investment in the wealthy will produce remarkable economic growth, and everyone will be better off. > > The Bush tax cuts were a test of these claims about supply-side economic policies. […] There is little evidence that the Bush tax cuts, or any other tax cuts directed at the so-called job creators, have had a noticeable effect on economic growth. And the promise of broadly shared prosperity has not been realized. Most of the gains from economic growth in recent decades have gone to the top of the income distribution while the inflation adjusted wages of the working class have been relatively flat. Furthermore, the tax cuts have not paid for themselves as promised, and it hasn’t even been close. [QUOTE=Shodan] Again, you can worry about this too if you like. Just like you could have worried about the Saudi contributions to the Clinton Foundation if Hillary had won the election, or the million dollars Obama got shortly after his election. [/quote] :dubious: A very disingenous apples-to-oranges comparison. Trump’s businesses are set up for his personal profit and enrichment, as opposed to a nonprofit entity like the Clinton Foundation which gives its money away in charity. (And trying to spin Obama’s Nobel Prize as some kind of comparable pay-to-play deal is even more egregiously :rolleyes:.) **We should not try to normalize the current situation of having a President who is simultaneously an international corporate CEO, whose personal business interests are unprecedentedly entangled with his policy choices. Pretending that this is no different from charitable foundation donations or Nobel Prize money is delusional.** [QUOTE=Shodan] Republicans don’t have any anti-labor policies, so that shouldn’t be a worry. [/quote] You may not have been paying attention since the [Eisenhower years](http://www.politicususa.com/2016/09/05/trump-leading-gop-today-republicans-anti-labor-day.html). > [@](#): > > The last decent Republican president, Dwight D. Eisenhower, seemed to understand that there would come a time when his party would deny labor any rights and warned that there were already politicians _“who hold some foolish dream of spinning the clock back to days when unorganized labor was a huddled, almost helpless mass. Only a handful of unreconstructed reactionaries harbor the ugly thought of breaking unions. Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of the right to join the union of their choice.”_ […] > > In fact, the official Republican Party platform no-one seems to notice reverses everything Republicans once championed for labor. It wants, like Donald Trump, to completely abolish the federal minimum wage and allow states and localities to set their own standards. Keep in mind that in Republican-controlled states and localities they have passed laws forbidding raising the minimum wage, offering sick leave or vacation pay. In Koch-controlled Wisconsin, Republican Scott Walker attempted to pass legislation eliminating weekends and the idea of overtime pay after 40 hours. > > The GOP platform also strongly promotes a national “right-to-work” law like those that are crushing union labor in Republican-controlled states across the South. The platform also attacked worker protection laws such as the Fair Labor Standards Act and lashed out at the Project Labor Agreements because it has the potential of raising worker wages and improving working conditions. [QUOTE=Shodan] Again, you can and should worry about this. And I hope your worries are fully justified [/quote] Just to get this clear: you are saying that you **oppose** the SCOTUS marriage-equality decision and/or other guarantees of equal civil rights for LGBTQ people? Good to know, I guess. [QUOTE=Shodan] Yes, definitely worry about that. Anyone who proposes cuts to Medicare is obviously a monster who should never be allowed near the Oval Office. ([Cite](http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20150202/NEWS/302029967).) [/QUOTE] :dubious: That’s another pretty disingenuous apples-and-oranges comparison. You’re trying to equate Obama’s proposed cost-saving measures such as allowing Medicare to negotiate drug prices with Ryan’s far more drastic aims of actually capping benefits, which would significantly reduce care and increase costs **for seniors receiving them**. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/84 "2016-12-22T17:55:13Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > The term “supply-side” as it’s commonly used, though, does indeed refer to that tax-cut-heavy approach, which **does** have a fairly lousy track record: Your link doesn’t work, but the quoted text is inaccurate. The Bush tax cuts, for instance, did not go primarily to the wealthy. > [@](#): > > :dubious: A very disingenous apples-to-oranges comparison. Trump’s businesses are set up for his personal profit and enrichment, as opposed to a nonprofit entity like the Clinton Foundation which gives its money away in charity. (And trying to spin Obama’s Nobel Prize as some kind of comparable pay-to-play deal is even more egregiously :rolleyes:.) You could include the millions in fees the Clintons received in speaking fees if you like. > [@](#): > > You may not have been paying attention since the [Eisenhower years](http://www.politicususa.com/2016/09/05/trump-leading-gop-today-republicans-anti-labor-day.html). As mentioned, that’s not anti-labor; it’s anti-union. Especially corrupt unions, who have outlived their usefulness and in many cases are counter-productive. Right to work is better for workers than a corrupt organization looking to enrich themselves. > [@](#): > > Just to get this clear: you are saying that you **oppose** the SCOTUS marriage-equality decision and/or other guarantees of equal civil rights for LGBTQ people? > > Good to know, I guess. I oppose the Supreme Court making up their own laws, as they did in the recent SSM case and other cases going back to Roe v. Wade. > [@](#): > > :dubious: That’s another pretty disingenuous apples-and-oranges comparison. You’re trying to equate Obama’s proposed cost-saving measures such as allowing Medicare to negotiate drug prices with Ryan’s far more drastic aims of actually capping benefits, which would significantly reduce care and increase costs **for seniors receiving them**. No, it’s valid. Obama wants to cut Medicare, just as I said and just as you accused Trump of doing. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/85 "2016-12-22T18:26:40Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Just to get this clear: you are saying that you **oppose** the SCOTUS marriage-equality decision and/or other guarantees of equal civil rights for LGBTQ people? > > Good to know, I guess. > > . Whatever your opinion on the decisions, having a situation where major constitutional questions are decided by the whims and opinions of 5 unelected persons is not ideal. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/86 "2016-12-22T19:00:33Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Whatever your opinion on the decisions, having a situation where major constitutional questions are decided by the whims and opinions of 5 unelected persons is not ideal. You are probably correct. In the cases where we do have major constitutional questions, I propose we put them to a board of 9 or so highly qualified members of the judiciary. The president could appoint them, with some sort of advice, and maybe consent from one of the other major governing bodies before they are put into that position. That’s the best I can think of, did you have a better method of answering major constitutional questions? ---
**Author:** ![Psychopants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Psychopants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psychopants)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/87 "2016-12-22T19:19:08Z")
I am in complete agreement with the OP, but would also add another bullet - the erosion of our first amendment rights beginning with independent journalism/free press. I’m also afraid that we are going to be at higher risk of actions by those who wish the US harm because our president will be perceived as a weak link. having all three branches of government controlled by the same party is very, very dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/88 "2016-12-22T19:21:19Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Trump is not Hitler. You’re quite right, he isn’t, he’s more akin to Kaiser Wilhelm II, and he had a tiny hand too. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/89 "2016-12-22T19:35:44Z")
Once again, with no evidence whatsoever but plenty of doctrinaire statements about how Trump won’t be that horrible, we’re told not to worry…everything will work out in time. That may work with the platoons of Faux News and Breitbart bubble-inhabitors, but the rest of us (as well as a lot of the world) are concerned about the negative effects of having a man leading the free world who has the emotional development of a 9-year-old, the policy understanding of a mole, an ease with believing any damn thing that comes out of his mouth no matter how fantastic, and the willingness to pervert Constitutional rights to suit any whim. Try again, with something recognizable as, you know, facts, and not intentional hyperbole. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/90 "2016-12-22T19:37:22Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, it’s valid. Obama wants to cut Medicare, just as I said and just as you accused Trump of doing. I think it should be possible to distinguish between cutting costs and cutting benefits. The phrases seem similar, in that they both have the word “cut” in them, but I think they might mean different things. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/91 "2016-12-22T19:52:29Z")
Another reason not to worry: [Trump Team is gonna take care of it’s wimminfolk…one way or the other.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/josh-rogin/wp/2016/12/22/trump-team-asked-state-department-for-info-on-womens-issues-programs-stoking-fears-of-another-witch-hunt/?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-d%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.b416302e140b) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/92 "2016-12-22T19:54:38Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Once again, with no evidence whatsoever but plenty of doctrinaire statements about how Trump won’t be that horrible, we’re told not to worry…everything will work out in time. That may work with the platoons of Faux News and Breitbart bubble-inhabitors, but the rest of us (as well as a lot of the world) are concerned about the negative effects of having a man leading the free world who has the emotional development of a 9-year-old, the policy understanding of a mole, an ease with believing any damn thing that comes out of his mouth no matter how fantastic, and the willingness to pervert Constitutional rights to suit any whim. > > Try again, with something recognizable as, you know, facts, and not intentional hyperbole. This is one of my favorite things about the SDMB - completely unselfconscious self-parody. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/93 "2016-12-22T20:34:18Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > This is one of my favorite things about the SDMB - completely unselfconscious self-parody. > > Regards, > Shodan So you believe that Trump has shown emotional maturity with his twitter tirades against TV shows, magazines and actors? You are of the opinion that Trump has a good understanding of policy issues? I have heard him say that he does not need a security briefing because “I’m very smart”. Do you agree with this? Are you aware of the mutually self-contradictory things that Trump has said on record? And then denied he said? Go ahead and be direct with your praise of Trump. Be effusive. Be specific in how you judge him to be terrific. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/94 "2016-12-22T21:57:13Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Yup, well, we told you so, back before 2008. As our own **jayjay** [presciently mused nearly ten years ago](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8813468&postcount=4): Man, I used to be kind of insightful! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/95 "2016-12-22T22:24:32Z")
Personally, I don’t care if you want to remain afraid. In fact, I hope you all continue to freak out over things that aren’t going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/96 "2016-12-22T23:25:03Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > …there is no reason to think he would be more interventionist than the past presidents. Guess we’ll have to agree to disagree considering I thought the two cites in my previous post (the :pimproper gestures:p in Pensacola, and the cabinet nominations of those two General Ripper appointees) were pretty bang on. And the latter issue - considerably frightening. The article you cited from the editorially uncool WSJ must be paywalled, so can I get you to provide a quote or two? > [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Personally, I don’t care if you want to remain afraid. In fact, I hope you all continue to freak out over things that aren’t going to happen. Please provide examples our illogical hand-wringing. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/97 "2016-12-23T00:23:42Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > This is one of my favorite things about the SDMB - completely unselfconscious self-parody. > > Regards, > Shodan Indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/98 "2016-12-23T00:47:10Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > This is one of my favorite things about the SDMB - completely unselfconscious self-parody. > > Regards, > Shodan Well, if you want [parody](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9-5DJhBh6M)… Merry christmas, mr shodan… in keeping with the situation… ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/99 "2016-12-23T01:03:24Z")
You shouldn’t be scared since you never supported Obama in his power grabs and therefore it will be difficult for trump to make similar grabs… right? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263/100 "2016-12-23T06:42:26Z")
Careful, **Count Blucher** , that could be a trap! These are very crafty and subtle people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-and-or-trump-supporters-please-explain-to-us-liberals-why-we-shouldnt-be-afraid/775263.md?page=6)