# Conservatives: Do you believe in social progress? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 25, 2018, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-do-you-believe-in-social-progress/826687 "2018-12-25T16:49:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-do-you-believe-in-social-progress/826687/201 "2019-01-19T06:59:57Z")
The medium was the message. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-do-you-believe-in-social-progress/826687/202 "2019-01-19T07:38:52Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > If the point of a society is not to help each other and work towards the betterment of the society as a whole, then what is the point of society? That is begging the question: who gets to decide what’s for the betterment of society? Almost exactly 100 years ago, our government outlawed alcohol nationwide. The people who did so certainly thought that they were working for the betterment of society. But they didn’t actually make society better. This country and numerous others once had eugenics programs in place, forcibly sterilizing and sometimes imprisoning those who were deemed genetically inferior. Eugenicists indisputably thought they were achieving the betterment of society. Many other examples could be given. So you have certain laws you would like to see made that you believe will lead to the betterment of society. Is it possible that you are wrong? Or are you always right 100% of the time? ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-do-you-believe-in-social-progress/826687/203 "2019-01-19T09:46:53Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > What is “greater freedom” for example? Fewer gun restrictions or a freedom to pay less than minimum wage or establish corporate monopolies? > > More acceptance of what? Less inequality of what? Outcomes? > > Again, these are in need of definitions. If they are just left wing wish lists, then of course conservatives do not support it. > > It would be as if I posted a thread asking “Liberals: Do you believe in decency and morality?” and then I define those terms to mean no abortions, same sex marriages, or prayers in school, then I have answered my own question. The problem, as I see it, is that Conservatism is assumed a priori to be an obstacle against good things happening. The working definition seemingly in use by the not-conservative people in this thread trying to answer the question is that a conservative is opposed to progress, ergo, endorses _insert bad thing here_. Unfettered “progressiveness” can be as harmful as conservatism, sometimes people come up with fecking stupid ideas in the name of progress that are best addressed by saying, no, let’s not to that and instead do what we were doing before. Prohibition of alcohol in the US was a progressive idea, just to give an example. Human progress and politics is like going places in a car, of course you need the accelerator to move forward, but let’s see how far you go without brakes or even the reverse gear. Demonizing Conservatism serves no purpose if the cause if social progress, some times it’s good to stop or even go back when things have moved in a direction that causes more harm than good. It’s the height of hubris to act as if one is capable of predicting with complete foresight all possible consequences and outcomes when setting the course of progress. Progressive and conservative ideas can both be virtuous, it all depends on how and when they are applied, it all boils down to the Socratic truth, that all virtues taken to the extreme become a vice. By demonizing one or the other what is accomplished is increasing the divide between both ways to see the world, it’s an instrument of polarization that leads to opposing views becoming more extreme. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-do-you-believe-in-social-progress/826687/204 "2019-01-19T09:51:39Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > That is begging the question: who gets to decide what’s for the betterment of society? > > Almost exactly 100 years ago, our government outlawed alcohol nationwide. The people who did so certainly thought that they were working for the betterment of society. But they didn’t actually make society better. > > This country and numerous others once had eugenics programs in place, forcibly sterilizing and sometimes imprisoning those who were deemed genetically inferior. Eugenicists indisputably thought they were achieving the betterment of society. > > Many other examples could be given. > > So you have certain laws you would like to see made that you believe will lead to the betterment of society. > > Is it possible that you are wrong? > > Or are you always right 100% of the time? It’s funny that I didn’t read your post before writing more, it covers most of the same ideas and even the same example. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-do-you-believe-in-social-progress/826687/205 "2019-01-19T17:06:09Z")
Of course conservatives approve of progress, so long as it doesn’t involve any actual change. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-do-you-believe-in-social-progress/826687.md?page=10)