# Conservatives: Do you hope that the stimulus plan fails to work? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 16, 2009, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-do-you-hope-that-the-stimulus-plan-fails-to-work/486136 "2009-02-16T19:02:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-do-you-hope-that-the-stimulus-plan-fails-to-work/486136/1 "2009-02-16T19:02:28Z")
Do you hope that the stimulus plan fails to lift us out of this recession? I am not asking if you think it will, but do you hope that it will? I have heard that Republicans in the House and most Republicans in the Senate are pinning their hopes on it failing to do any good. I read that Rush Limbaugh said he hopes that Obama’s policies fails. Do you personally hope that it does no good? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-do-you-hope-that-the-stimulus-plan-fails-to-work/486136/2 "2009-02-16T19:14:51Z")
Might want to have a look [here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=506381) Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-do-you-hope-that-the-stimulus-plan-fails-to-work/486136/3 "2009-02-16T19:16:54Z")
I’m not a big Rush Limbaugh fan, but I’m amazed at how people keep taking his remarks out of proportion. Rush said that he hopes Obama’s _socialist policies_ fail – in other words, he doesn’t want us to head down the path of socialism. This is not the same as wishing economic doom on the country, or for the stimulus package to fail, or even for the Obama presidency to fail. Let’s set things in perspective here. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-do-you-hope-that-the-stimulus-plan-fails-to-work/486136/4 "2009-02-16T19:44:17Z")
Although the OP is based on fale premises, let me make a statement anyhow. I do not hope the stimulus works. I consider that, frankly, an impossibility.\* I also do not hope it fails. \*It also neatly punctures the idea that (human) thought precedes reality. Believe me, if wishful thinking could make things so, life would be a lot easier. ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-do-you-hope-that-the-stimulus-plan-fails-to-work/486136/5 "2009-02-16T19:52:09Z")
This is what I initially thought was all he said, but on listening to an expanded recording, I thought it was on another day, it seemed to me that he also hoped Obama would fail in every way possible, not the policies which Rush found socialist. Any way, the question remains, are you as a conservative hoping the stimulus fails, and if so, why is that what you want? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-do-you-hope-that-the-stimulus-plan-fails-to-work/486136/6 "2009-02-16T19:52:59Z")
Why do you think they insisted on tax breaks ,which have proven not to work, be put in the bill, and then refused to vote for it. They will sabotage everything they can. Rush is a spokesman for them. He did not suddenly drop to the earth . He has been a jerk and a sycophant for the powerful for a long time. The richies really screwed up, but that does not mean they want to cede power. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-do-you-hope-that-the-stimulus-plan-fails-to-work/486136/7 "2009-02-16T19:55:37Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > I’m not a big Rush Limbaugh fan, but I’m amazed at how people keep taking his remarks out of proportion. Rush said that he hopes Obama’s _socialist policies_ fail – in other words, he doesn’t want us to head down the path of socialism. This is not the same as wishing economic doom on the country, or for the stimulus package to fail, or even for the Obama presidency to fail. Let’s set things in perspective here. I know this is how Rush tried to CYA, but it’s not very convincing since Obama doesn’t _have_ any Socialist policies. And what does Limbaugh mean by “fail?” What does he want them to fail to do? ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-do-you-hope-that-the-stimulus-plan-fails-to-work/486136/8 "2009-02-16T19:59:26Z")
> [@lee](#): > > This is what I initially thought was all he said, but on listening to an expanded recording, I thought it was on another day, it seemed to me that he also hoped Obama would fail in every way possible, not the policies which Rush found socialist. Do you honestly think that Rush is hoping that Obama will fail to defend the country against terrorists? Or fail to promote law and order? Or fail to help the economy recover? As I said, I’m not a fan of Rush Limbaugh. Still, I think it’s clear that people are allowing their hatred for Rush to color their perceptions. Their distaste for the man causes them to interpret his words in the most extreme, most heinous manner possible. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-do-you-hope-that-the-stimulus-plan-fails-to-work/486136/9 "2009-02-16T20:03:46Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I know this is how Rush tried to CYA, but it’s not very convincing since Obama doesn’t _have_ any Socialist policies. Even if we grant that to be true, it’s irrelevant to the question at hand – namely, what Rush meant when he said that he wanted Obama’s policies to fail. You might not agree that Obama has any socialist policies, but Rush obviously does, so your disagreement with him on this matter is simply irrelevant. > [@](#): > > And what does Limbaugh mean by “fail?” What does he want them to fail to do? That’s a good question, and it’s one that liberals should ask before they jump down Limbaugh’s throat. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-do-you-hope-that-the-stimulus-plan-fails-to-work/486136/10 "2009-02-16T20:12:07Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > Still, I think it’s clear that people are allowing their hatred for Rush to color their perceptions. [Rep. Paul Broun of Georgia](http://www.congressmatters.com/storyonly/2009/2/15/114712/941/371/640) on the stimulus package: > [@](#): > > Madam Speaker, I stand here today because Americans face a fork in the road. One side leads to socialism and the other path leads to freedom. This nonstimulus bill is the road to socialism. It will give us a journey that includes bureaucratic controls, high taxes, government intervention, Cuba-style medicine and economic collapse of America. This steam roller of socialism is being shoved down our throats and it will strangle our economy. This porkulus bill has a few decent provisions in it but is mostly filled with mystery meat. Rancid meat. Like the millions for plug-in government cars and millions for mouse restoration, that will ruin the entire meal. The captivating rhetoric about openness and transparency is providing cover for the rancid meat. > > Another tainted bite includes a move toward socialized medicine. As a physician, I’m deeply concerned about the breech of privacy and the abuse of care that are hidden in this stimulus bill, especially for senior citizens. The vague language could to potentially deny life-giving care to the elderly. You see, $2 billion is allocated in this nonstimulus bill for the new national coordinator of health information. Or you can call him Dr. Doom. > > Dr. Doom, the government’s own human health care calculator, will make his or her own calculations to determine if your needed care is cost efficient. The vague nature of this language could lead to health care rationing for elderly people and handcuffing the development of life-saving drugs to fight infections. All because Dr. Doom doesn’t deem them to be cost efficient. When mama falls and breaks her hip, she’ll just lie in her bed in pain until she dies with pneumonia because her needed surgery is not cost efficient. I’m a medical doctor. And I’m certain that the federal government can no more determine what type of care is the most cost effective and appropriate for my patients than they can determine how best to educate our children or spend our hard-earned tax dollars. > > This is what happens when Congress considers a bill that costs $1 trillion… Just whose perspective is overly colored here? Hint: Rep. Paul Broun is not a “Rush hater.” ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-do-you-hope-that-the-stimulus-plan-fails-to-work/486136/11 "2009-02-16T20:16:16Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > Do you honestly think that Rush is hoping that Obama will fail to defend the country against terrorists? Or fail to promote law and order? Or fail to help the economy recover? > > As I said, I’m not a fan of Rush Limbaugh. Still, I think it’s clear that people are allowing their hatred for Rush to color their perceptions. Their distaste for the man causes them to interpret his words in the most extreme, most heinous manner possible. I think he might. I do know there are some out there who hope that the fail is spectacular enough that the enemies, the dems, never can get in office again. Some people are crazy. I know of some out there who hope that there is a balance between the two parties and they can never get another piece of legislation through ever. In the same vein, I know some who on hearing an acquaintance was raped say that it was about time she was taught a lesson. I don’t think any of these responses is admirable but I have heard them expressed, seemingly sincerely. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-do-you-hope-that-the-stimulus-plan-fails-to-work/486136/12 "2009-02-16T20:21:07Z")
> [@lee](#): > > Some people are crazy. See post# 10. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-do-you-hope-that-the-stimulus-plan-fails-to-work/486136/13 "2009-02-16T20:28:02Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > Do you honestly think that Rush is hoping that Obama will fail to defend the country against terrorists? Or fail to promote law and order? Or fail to help the economy recover? Yes, yes, and yes, along with a lot of the right. They’d love a major terrorist attack they could blame on Obama. They’d love a rise in general chaos they could blame on “socialism” or “liberalism”. And they’d love it if the economy collapsed so far that the government had to be gutted, and people became so desperate for work they would put up with hellish conditions for low pay. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-do-you-hope-that-the-stimulus-plan-fails-to-work/486136/14 "2009-02-16T20:32:26Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The richies really screwed up, but that does not mean they want to cede power. Yup, they still have the democrats working for them. ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-do-you-hope-that-the-stimulus-plan-fails-to-work/486136/15 "2009-02-16T20:37:35Z")
Paul Broun would seem a whole lot crazier if I had not heard about so much idiocy in the choices of what to cover under current government programs. I think we would do well to listen to these concerns and make sure they are not realized, just as I wish we had listened to those who said that the Patriot act would just be an excuse for massive surveillance without oversight, or when people protested that government databases to be used by DHS would be subject to abuse and just put information in an easy package for criminals to poach via hacking or bribes. Or those like me who asked what happens when real estate prices fall? Or in the current plan, how we are risking that digitized standardized medical records become one big invasion of privacy or worse. I am not opposed to digitizing medical records in a standardized way, I think is is inevitable, I hope that we can temper the risks. I think if we do better at listening to those who look like Chicken Little today, the sky would fall less often. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-do-you-hope-that-the-stimulus-plan-fails-to-work/486136/16 "2009-02-16T20:45:57Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > See post# 10. 🙂 Is that quote supposed to show that Paul Broun hopes the stimulus plan fails? Or is just opposing the stimulus plan proof that you’re a traitor who hates America? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-do-you-hope-that-the-stimulus-plan-fails-to-work/486136/17 "2009-02-16T20:48:24Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > As I said, I’m not a fan of Rush Limbaugh. Still, I think it’s clear that people are allowing their hatred for Rush to color their perceptions. Their distaste for the man causes them to interpret his words in the most extreme, most heinous manner possible. On the contrary, it is Limbaugh’s words that cause my distaste for the man. If he only wishes for Obama’s “socialist policies” to fail, has he singled out precisely which policies those are, and which he would like to see succeed? If he hasn’t, then that amounts to a blanket condemnation, and all the rationalizing and parsing of his words falls flat. I do not believe that Limbaugh wishes to see any ills befall the country. I do believe that when anything bad does happen, he will use whatever means necessary to blame democrats, and that he is attempting to lay the groundwork for that blame in advance. To decide on an agenda and to disregard facts (indeed, before facts are even known), and to use his influence to push that agenda as the dominant form of government, is arguably as reckless as wishing harm on the nation. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-do-you-hope-that-the-stimulus-plan-fails-to-work/486136/18 "2009-02-16T21:07:18Z")
> [@lee](#): > > Do you hope that the stimulus plan fails to lift us out of this recession? I am not asking if you think it will, but do you hope that it will? I have heard that Republicans in the House and most Republicans in the Senate are pinning their hopes on it failing to do any good. I read that Rush Limbaugh said he hopes that Obama’s policies fails. > > Do you personally hope that it does no good? Nope. My mind is always open on ideas of unsettled economic theory; a lot of economists support this stimulus package but as a discipline economists still seem rather wary of stimulus packages. If it does in fact work out then it will give us a better understanding of an important tool of economic policy. I expect the economy to get better with or without the stimulus; if the timing is right Obama will be able to claim a lion’s share of the credit. Not dissimilar from what FDR did with the Great Depression. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-do-you-hope-that-the-stimulus-plan-fails-to-work/486136/19 "2009-02-16T21:14:15Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > [Rep. Paul Broun of Georgia](http://www.congressmatters.com/storyonly/2009/2/15/114712/941/371/640) on the stimulus package: And where does Broun’s statement say that he doesn’t want the package to stimulate the economy? It does not. He says that the stimulus package is a collosally bad idea. He is saying that the package will NOT succeed. This is not logically equivalent to saying that he wants the package to fail. > [@](#): > > Just whose perspective is overly colored here? > Hint: Rep. Paul Broun is not a “Rush hater.” Again, Broun’s statement is not the same as wanting the stimulus to fail. Interpreting his words in this manner is yet another example of allowing personal distate to color one’s perceptions. As an aside, I have no opinion on whether Broun’s evaluation is correct or not. That’s simply not relevant. The point is that his words give no indication of hoping that the economy will not be stimulated. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-do-you-hope-that-the-stimulus-plan-fails-to-work/486136/20 "2009-02-16T21:16:38Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Yes, yes, and yes, along with a lot of the right. They’d love a major terrorist attack they could blame on Obama. They’d love a rise in general chaos they could blame on “socialism” or “liberalism”. And they’d love it if the economy collapsed so far that the government had to be gutted, and people became so desperate for work they would put up with hellish conditions for low pay. That’s exactly the way they see it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-do-you-hope-that-the-stimulus-plan-fails-to-work/486136.md?page=2)