# Conservatives hate being forced to buy health insurance, but they're OK with mandating ultrasounds? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 13, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672 "2012-03-13T18:30:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/1 "2012-03-13T18:30:16Z")
I’m just really trying to understand the GOP mindset on this one; conservatives, generally, hate the idea of being forced to buy health insurance in the HC reform bill (even though, well, the GOP came up with that idea in the first place :smack:), but they’re perfectly fine with forcing women to undergo invasive medical procedures against their will? I really, really don’t understand it, and trying to get in their minds here just makes me realize how fucking backwards this country is in the first place. Ugh. ---
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/2 "2012-03-13T18:53:23Z")
It’s so the woman can see that there’s a baby in there and attempt to get her to change her mind. Lots of states have this kind of thing, maybe not ultrasounds, but there are waiting periods and such. They want you to think about it, as if they haven’t already. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/3 "2012-03-13T18:56:16Z")
I’m waiting for some Republican legislature to write a law requiring the doctor to point at the ultrasound screen and scream, _ **"Look at the wittle heart! It’s so fucking cute. How can you stop the wittle heart, you fucking slut?"** _ ---
**Author:** ![Phedre\_no\_Delaunay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/839c29/32.png) [@Phedre\_no\_Delaunay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phedre_no_Delaunay)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/4 "2012-03-13T19:25:09Z")
> [@Edward\_The\_Head](#): > > It’s so the woman can see that there’s a baby in there and attempt to get her to change her mind. Lots of states have this kind of thing, maybe not ultrasounds, but there are waiting periods and such. They want you to think about it, as if they haven’t already. A BABY?!? And all this time I thought it was a toaster. Well that changes EVERYTHING! ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/5 "2012-03-13T19:49:12Z")
This seems more of a wild rant, rather than a quest for opinions or information. I’m moving it to the BBQ Pit, from IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![davekhps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@davekhps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davekhps)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/6 "2012-03-13T19:53:53Z")
Most abortions performed require a transvaginal ultrasound to locate the fetus. Meaning, if a patient is there to get an abortion, they’re \*already going to have \*what some governments were considering mandating, meaning it’s no more invasive or against their will than the abortion procedure itself-- the latter by definition being obviously more invasive than an ultrasound. The difference is that rather than performing an ultrasound for the sole benefit of the doctor performing the abortion, the ultrasound would be performed to provide the results to the patient, i.e. as Edward the Head wrote above, to attempt to convince the patient that the fetus is a living baby and thus not deserving of the abortion. IMHO everyone is entitled to disagree with them, but there was nothing unreasonable with these laws, certainly nothing warranting the hysteria in which they were condemned. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/7 "2012-03-13T19:56:47Z")
I think that before a woman gets an abortion, she should first have to see an ultrasound of its beating heart, give it a name, paint its bedroom, and make it a mix-tape. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/8 "2012-03-13T20:03:49Z")
Or at least pick out the trash can where she’ll abandon it after giving birth in a restroom stall. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/9 "2012-03-13T20:04:54Z")
> [@davekhps](#): > > Most abortions performed require a transvaginal ultrasound to locate the fetus. . . I’d like a cite for this. We [went over this recently](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=643226), and although there were plenty of legitimate non-abortion-related reasons to have one done, I can’t see how it would possibly be necessary to perform an abortion. I mean, I _know_ where the fetus is located already. It would be in my uterus. _points_ There. Could someone with more medical training chime in if a more specific location is necessary to remove said fetus? ---
**Author:** ![saje](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saje/32/3631_2.png) [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/10 "2012-03-13T20:05:59Z")
> [@davekhps](#): > > Most abortions performed require a transvaginal ultrasound to locate the fetus. Are you sure about that? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/11 "2012-03-13T20:07:30Z")
Have you guys seen this? [Nina Turner, Ohio State Senator, Introduces Viagra Bill To Counter Anti-Contraception Legislation | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/13/nina-turner-viagra-contraception-bills_n_1341642.html?ref=mostpopular) Another link, same topic, [Nina Turner, Ohio State Senator, Introduces Viagra Bill To Counter Anti-Contraception Legislation | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/13/nina-turner-viagra-contraception-bills_n_1341642.html?ref=mostpopular). [Bloomberg - Are you a robot?](http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-03-07/viagra-would-need-sex-therapist-s-ok-in-ohio-bill) ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/12 "2012-03-13T20:11:48Z")
> [@davekhps](#): > > Most abortions performed require a transvaginal ultrasound to locate the fetus. Meaning, if a patient is there to get an abortion, they’re \*already going to have \*what some governments were considering mandating, meaning it’s no more invasive or against their will than the abortion procedure itself-- the latter by definition being obviously more invasive than an ultrasound. Cite? Because this isn’t my understanding (or experience) at all. > [@](#): > > The difference is that rather than performing an ultrasound for the sole benefit of the doctor performing the abortion, the ultrasound would be performed to provide the results to the patient, i.e. as Edward the Head wrote above, to attempt to convince the patient that the fetus is a living baby and thus not deserving of the abortion. Here’s a shocker: _Women know they are pregnant with what will become a baby._ They aren’t dumb. That is why they are getting a fucking abortion! I feel confident saying there has never, not ONCE, been a woman who went in to get an abortion, and, upon being forced to look at the ultrasound screen, cried, " Oh my god! You mean THERE’S A FETUS IN THERE! HOLY SHIT! Fuck this abortion; I had no idea pregnancy would result in _a baby_! Send me home!!" And the fact that the forced pregnancy supporters think that women are that dumb is just more evidence that they are at least partially driven by misogyny. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/13 "2012-03-13T20:16:13Z")
I think before any prescription for Viagra is filled, the patient should have to look at pictures of diseased cocks with big dripping sores on them, so they know what they may be getting themselves into. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/14 "2012-03-13T20:18:34Z")
I think women should be forced to watch Alan Arkin asking if it was a chicken, and Alan Alda screaming "“Oh, my God! Oh, my God! I didn’t mean for her to kill it. I did not - I - I just wanted it to be quiet. It was - it was a baby! She, she smothered her own baby!!” on a loop for like an hour. No, wait. I want the legislators pushing for mandated ultrasounds to have to watch it. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/15 "2012-03-13T20:22:19Z")
I’m glad my urologist wasn’t forced to do an ultrasound of my _vasa deferentia_ before snipping them. If I’d seen those tiny ducts—so innocent and vulnerable, truly evidence of God’s creation—would I still have been able to hack through them like so much newspaper string? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/16 "2012-03-13T20:25:03Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > I think before any prescription for Viagra is filled, the patient should have to look at pictures of diseased cocks with big dripping sores on them, so they know what they may be getting themselves into. Why pictures, when they can just turn on C-SPAN? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/17 "2012-03-13T20:25:38Z")
> [@davekhps](#): > > Most abortions performed require a transvaginal ultrasound to locate the fetus. No, they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/18 "2012-03-13T20:28:40Z")
> [@davekhps](#): > > Most abortions performed require a transvaginal ultrasound to locate the fetus. Meaning, if a patient is there to get an abortion, they’re \*already going to have \*what some governments were considering mandating, meaning it’s no more invasive or against their will than the abortion procedure itself-- the latter by definition being obviously more invasive than an ultrasound. Baloney. According to [this fact sheet,](http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html) in 2008 17% of all abortions in the US were medical abortions - 25% of abortions done before 8 weeks. It’s probably a higher percentage now. In Europe, it’s over half of all abortions before 8 weeks. A medical abortion is where you take pills. It is the opposite of invasive. And why would you need to know where the fetus is, if the whole kit and caboodle is just going to bleed out? And according to [this description](http://www.emedicinehealth.com/abortion/page3_em.htm#Abortion%20Preparation) of the ultrasound procedure, of all the reasons given for having one, “locating the fetus” is not one of them. “Locating the fetus” is not mentioned later in the article either in the detailed descriptions of the actual procedures. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/19 "2012-03-13T20:29:08Z")
> [@bup](#): > > I think women should be forced to watch Alan Arkin asking if it was a chicken, and Alan Alda screaming "“Oh, my God! Oh, my God! I didn’t mean for her to kill it. I did not - I - I just wanted it to be quiet. It was - it was a baby! She, she smothered her own baby!!” on a loop for like an hour. Utterly pointless nitpicking moment: It was Allan Arbus who played Dr. Sidney Freedman in MASH. (Unless you want the legislators to also demand that they first re-shoot the scene with Arkin.) ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/20 "2012-03-13T20:32:55Z")
I’m generally in favor of re-shooting all scenes to include Alan Arkin. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672.md?page=2)