# Conservatives hate being forced to buy health insurance, but they're OK with mandating ultrasounds? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 13, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672 "2012-03-13T18:30:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/81 "2012-03-15T01:24:04Z")
> [@biddee](#): > > Considering [this](http://www.advancedfertility.com/ultraso1.htm) is what a 5-6 week ultrasound looks like and [this](http://www.advancedfertility.com/ultraso4.htm) is what and 8 week ultrasound looks like, I really don’t see how that will make a woman change her mind. It’s blob on a screen. Around 12 weeks it starts to actually look like a [baby](http://www.advancedfertility.com/ultraso5.htm). Since the majority of abortions are performed between 6-8 weeks, this bill is just stupid and will not make one woman change her mind. I’m against this law of course, but I think it will cause a few women to change their minds. No, an early ultrasound doesn’t look like anything, but neither does a heartbeat sound like anything that special, and a lot of parents still think it’s all magical to hear (I never did, and always felt like the odd one out for that, but I never had an early ultrasound to not tear up over). I realize it’s a different situation with a wanted pregnancy, but some people are just sentimental about that kind of thing. Besides, the majority of abortions are performed in the blob stage, yes, but not all. A woman who sees an early second trimester ultrasound probably has a decent chance of changing her mind. Again, I am against this law. But I see no point in pretending that every woman who has an abortion made a well informed decision. Some do, some don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/82 "2012-03-15T01:51:10Z")
The answer to the OP is obvious: due to Roe V. Wade abortion is largely unrestricted at least for the first trimaster in this country and as a result the only way for pro-lifers to combat abortion and prevent even one more abortion is through bureaucratic maneuvering like this. And if pro-lifers do believe abortion is murder than such laws are very much needeed. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/83 "2012-03-15T01:52:53Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > It’s worth noting that the flipside of this – conservative opposition to mandatory health insurance – is of questionable ideological sincerity. > > The idea came from the Heritage Foundation, and while of mixed reception through the 1990s was certainly not viewed as the heresy it now is. > > And while appeals to federalism to distinguish national insurance requirements from manifold state requirements are perfectly believable coming from someone like **Bricker** , they’re not very believable coming from your average member of the GOP base who is all about the war on drugs, banning gay marriage, banning assisted suicide, banning so-called “partial birth” abortion, etc. etc. I don’t support the war on drugs and believe gay marriage should be left up to the states. And how many conservatives are up and arms over car insurance requirments. I’m not sure about state mandates and their constitutionality but most conservative do believe national mandates are unconstitutional. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/84 "2012-03-15T01:53:56Z")
> [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](#): > > I’ve talked to a lot of pro-lifers over the years, and in my experience that’s pretty much it. I dislike the idea of abortion, and am very glad I’ve never had to make that decision. I would be pro-life except that so many pro-lifers I’ve talked to are also against birth control. A world without safe, reliable birth control scares the heck out of me, so my votes and my donations land solidly in pro-choice candidates and groups. There are lots of pro-life organizations and I remember someone linking one here not too long ago that was explicitly feminist and pro-birth control. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/85 "2012-03-15T01:56:04Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > I don’t support the war on drugs and believe gay marriage should be left up to the states. That’s great. It means you’re not a standard GOP voter. > [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > … most conservative do believe national mandates are unconstitutional. Sure, they do now that Barack Obama supported them. But conservatives invented them, and some conservatives championed them for a decade without it being obviously a right-left issue. Again, there are principled reasons to oppose the mandate. I don’t see those principles in practical operation in most of the GOP base. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/86 "2012-03-15T02:39:46Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > That’s great. It means you’re not a standard GOP voter. > > Sure, they do now that Barack Obama supported them. But conservatives invented them, and some conservatives championed them for a decade without it being obviously a right-left issue. > > Again, there are principled reasons to oppose the mandate. I don’t see those principles in practical operation in most of the GOP base. Was the Heritage Foundation plan in the '90s a national plan or a state-based one? Just curious. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/87 "2012-03-15T02:43:51Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > The answer to the OP is obvious: due to Roe V. Wade abortion is largely unrestricted at least for the first trimaster in this country and as a result the only way for pro-lifers to combat abortion and prevent even one more abortion is through bureaucratic maneuvering like this. And if pro-lifers do believe abortion is murder than such laws are very much needeed. Oh shut the fuck up, you ignorant, obnoxious, pathetic, twerp. You know absolutely nothing about life, let alone pregnancy or childbearing. No one cares what you and your cohort of idiots thinks about subjects like this. You’re like someone blind from birth trying to get the color red banned. No woman on the planet owes you an explaination for her reproductive choices let alone the right to legislate about them. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/88 "2012-03-15T02:48:19Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > How can you say they “never really do anything about it” when the entire topic of thread is about a horrible thing they’re doing about it? And we had this same thing last month with Virginia. And South Dakota’s legislature has run all the abortion providing medical doctors out of the state. > [Obstacles to Abortion in the United States - Page 3](http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/507404_3) \<-----And that’s copyright 2005, it doesn’t even include the last 9 years of insanity. > > “Never really do anything about it?” Really?! They’re eroding access all over the place, and have been ever since Roe v Wade was put into effect. It’s not just starting now, it’s \*snowballing \*now. Anybody who has spent any time on the issue knows that the way to change it is to amend the constitution. But they don’t seem to attempt to amend the constitution, but rather pass laws that will be struck down or cause the sort of obnoxious interference that the OP complains of. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/89 "2012-03-15T02:50:40Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > I’m against this law of course, but I think it will cause a few women to change their minds. No, an early ultrasound doesn’t look like anything, but neither does a heartbeat sound like anything that special, and a lot of parents still think it’s all magical to hear (I never did, and always felt like the odd one out for that, but I never had an early ultrasound to not tear up over). I realize it’s a different situation with a wanted pregnancy, but some people are just sentimental about that kind of thing. > > Besides, the majority of abortions are performed in the blob stage, yes, but not all. A woman who sees an early second trimester ultrasound probably has a decent chance of changing her mind. > > Again, I am against this law. But I see no point in pretending that every woman who has an abortion made a well informed decision. Some do, some don’t. > [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > The answer to the OP is obvious: due to Roe V. Wade abortion is largely unrestricted at least for the first trimaster in this country and as a result the only way for pro-lifers to combat abortion and prevent even one more abortion is through bureaucratic maneuvering like this. And if pro-lifers do believe abortion is murder than such laws are very much needeed. One clinic in Texas has been following this law since either October or November (reported in today’s Fort Worth Star Telegram, I read it in a deli so I don’t have it handy). Despite following the law, not ONE woman has changed her mind about having an abortion after seeing the sonogram and hearing the heartbeat. The law hasn’t prevented even a single abortion in this clinic over a period of half a year. The ONLY thing this law has done has made abortion a little more unpleasant and expensive for women. So please, either show that someone, somewhere, changed her mind about an abortion after jumping through the hoops, or quit pretending that this is about anything other than making a woman jump through hoops. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/90 "2012-03-15T04:50:49Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Doonesbury is on it: > > Monday - [http://www.uclick.com/client/sea/db/2012/03/12/index.html](http://www.uclick.com/client/sea/db/2012/03/12/index.html) > Tuesday - [http://www.uclick.com/client/sea/db/2012/03/13/index.html](http://www.uclick.com/client/sea/db/2012/03/13/index.html) If you don’t mind skipping ahead, here is the full series: [http://www.democratandchronicle.com/assets/pdf/A2186481313.PDF](http://www.democratandchronicle.com/assets/pdf/A2186481313.PDF) ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/91 "2012-03-15T05:09:22Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > The problem with that argument is that pregnancy is not just a weird phenomenon. It’s an often dangerous medical condition with potentially serious consequences for the woman in question. I’ve been pregnant several times if you include ectopics and chemicals. The ectopics involved painful methotrexate shots to resolve. The two pregnancies that went to term involved all of sorts of really bad medical complications. During the first I was in the hospital for two weeks literally unable to keep any food down. I cannot begin to explain what it is like to be six months pregnant and afraid of eating. During the second I went through weeks of horrifying breathlessness and high blood pressure so bad my doctor was afraid I would have a stroke during labor. > > A pregnancy is a medical condition. If a woman chooses to go through with it that is her decision and her decision alone. Yes, I damned well think abortion opponents should shut the fuck up. Hear, hear! No one on this planet should have the right to force women to take the risks that can come with pregnancy. For G-d’s sake, _especially_ while also barring them from coverage for the most effective form of birth control that exists. High blood pressure Hypothyroidism Cholestasis of Pregnancy (a common liver disease that only happens in pregnancy) Hyperemesis Gravidarum Hysterectomy Molar Pregnancy Placenta Accreta Toxoplasmosis Listeria (pregnant women are 20 times more likely to become infected than non-pregnant healthy adults) Pelvic floor disorder HELLP Syndrome (Hemolysis (breakdown of red blood cells), Elevated liver enzymes, Low platelets counts (platelets help the blood clot)) Hyperemesis gravidarum Temporary and permanent injury to back Dropped (prolapsed) uterus Pre-eclampsia Eclampsia (convulsions, coma during pregnancy or labor, high risk of death) Gestational diabetes Placenta previa Anemia Thrombocytopenic purpura Embolism (blood clots - can lead to death - put my cousin in a coma, caused life-long disabilities and killed her full-term baby) Diastasis recti, also torn abdominal muscles Mitral valve stenosis Ectopic pregnancy (risk of death) Broken bones (ribcage, “tail bone”) Hemorrhage Severe post-partum depression and psychosis Coronary and cardiovascular disease Magnesium toxicity Severe hypoxemia/acidosis Increased intracranial pressure, brainstem infarction Malignant Arrhythmia Circulatory collapse Placental abruption Obstetric fistula Miscarriage **Future infertility Permanent disability Heart attack Stroke Death** Seriously, who in the hell do these people think they are? > [@WhyNot](#): > > How can you say they “never really do anything about it” when the entire topic of thread is about a horrible thing they’re doing about it? And we had this same thing last month with Virginia. And South Dakota’s legislature has run all the abortion providing medical doctors out of the state. > [Obstacles to Abortion in the United States - Page 3](http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/507404_3) \<-----And that’s copyright 2005, it doesn’t even include the last 9 years of insanity. > > “Never really do anything about it?” Really?! They’re eroding access all over the place, and have been ever since Roe v Wade was put into effect. It’s not just starting now, it’s \*snowballing \*now. In 2011 alone, [92 laws restricting access for women were passed by state legislatures](http://www.womenarewatching.org/article/women-are-watching-on-anniversary-of-roe-) across the country. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/92 "2012-03-15T05:53:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I am strongly pro-life. I am absolutely convinced that a five-week pregnancy is a human being, and terminating it is killing a human being. Is a fetus a person? Science fiction is full of robots who are non-human persons: they possess consciousness. A three month fetus certainly has human DNA, but it is utterly lacking in brain waves, consciousness and therefore personhood. **Pre-empt the potential argument** If carried to term a healthy fetus will grow into a conscious human. So a three month fetus has the potential to become a person. Once it gains speech, it could certainly be said to have an interest in not being aborted earlier, just as it has an interest in having its father home on the evening of its conception rather than traveling on business. But to say that there’s a vital interest in having Dad stay at home all evenings would be absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/93 "2012-03-15T06:01:55Z")
My home state (which I’m trying to leave) is one of the ones trying to do this. I’m absolutely convinced half the legislators thing Transvaginal is where Dracula was from and are screening for unborn vampires. Then there’s [Terry England, the Georgia legislator](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/09/terry-england-farm-animals_n_1335976.html) who I’d pit if I weren’t so tired tonight. He not only favors this but believes that all women who are pregnant with fetuses that are either already dead OR that will not live to term should still have to carry them to term because, after all, he grew up on a farm and cows and hogs do this all the time, though it brings a then it happens (ear to his eye when it happens (he actually said that). He also said it was hypocritical to outlaw fighting cocks while women are still able to have abortions (or words to that effect). ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/94 "2012-03-15T06:11:33Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > My home state (which I’m trying to leave) is one of the ones trying to do this. I’m absolutely convinced half the legislators thing Transvaginal is where Dracula was from and are screening for unborn vampires. > > Then there’s [Terry England, the Georgia legislator](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/09/terry-england-farm-animals_n_1335976.html) who I’d pit if I weren’t so tired tonight. He not only favors this but believes that all women who are pregnant with fetuses that are either already dead OR that will not live to term should still have to carry them to term because, after all, he grew up on a farm and cows and hogs do this all the time, though it brings a then it happens (ear to his eye when it happens (he actually said that). He also said it was hypocritical to outlaw fighting cocks while women are still able to have abortions (or words to that effect). [Come join us over here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=14864771#post14864771) for this one. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/95 "2012-03-15T06:27:23Z")
> [@bup](#): > > It’s a medical condition of having another person inside you, if you believe a fetus is a person. It’s qualitatively different than any other medical condition. > > OK, then I plead insensitive boor. > > But you seemed to get the analogy, anyway, since you said if one twin was, essentially, a parasite of the other, then the functionally independent twin has the right. That’s a fair answer. I was just trying to reframe the question in neutral terms, as a person who sees a fetus as a person might see it. Can you at least respect that in that situation, a reasonable person might have a different answer than you? Especially if (please indulge me this crazy hypothetical), one twin was completely dependent on the other now, but had a good chance of _growing into_ an independent, separate-able twin? > > I think probably, since you already acknowledge **Bricker** ’s position on abortion is like yours with guns. Actually things like this DO happen, at least at birth. When there’s a case where said twins will die if not separated, but only one can live, they’ll still do it, even if it means the death of one of the twins. And yes, that even will include deciding which one has a better chance of survival. Sacrificing one’s life for another. It’s a heartbreaking issue…but sometimes, it happens. Get your stinking laws OUT of my uterus, thankyouverymuch! ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/96 "2012-03-15T07:06:27Z")
I still can’t get over the Kansas law that would require doctors to LIE to their patients and tell them that abortion causes breast cancer when all the studies clearly show that this is false. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/97 "2012-03-15T11:29:33Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Was the Heritage Foundation plan in the '90s a national plan or a state-based one? Just curious. National. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/98 "2012-03-15T12:25:23Z")
> [@davekhps](#): > > Most abortions performed require a transvaginal ultrasound to locate the fetus. Meaning, if a patient is there to get an abortion, they’re \*already going to have \*what some governments were considering mandating, meaning it’s no more invasive or against their will than the abortion procedure itself-- the latter by definition being obviously more invasive than an ultrasound. > > The difference is that rather than performing an ultrasound for the sole benefit of the doctor performing the abortion, the ultrasound would be performed to provide the results to the patient, i.e. as Edward the Head wrote above, to attempt to convince the patient that the fetus is a living baby and thus not deserving of the abortion. > > IMHO everyone is entitled to disagree with them, but there was nothing unreasonable with these laws, certainly nothing warranting the hysteria in which they were condemned. I saw that this was already countered by other posters but did not see any of the cites requested of davekhps. So, is there anything to support the claims of this AM radio host drool fanboy? ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/99 "2012-03-15T17:10:51Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > We were willing to talk, even if we thought it was ultimately pointless, but the crowd around us wasn’t. You don’t say. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672/100 "2012-03-15T17:24:59Z")
> [@standingwave](#): > > If you don’t mind skipping ahead, here is the full series: [http://www.democratandchronicle.com/assets/pdf/A2186481313.PDF](http://www.democratandchronicle.com/assets/pdf/A2186481313.PDF) Hey, thanks for posting that. And GOD DAMN the Los Angeles Times for re-running some stupid series with Geoff Redfern and Zipper Harris lunching in the Student Union at Walden, instead of this. Just FUCK you guys, okay? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-hate-being-forced-to-buy-health-insurance-but-theyre-ok-with-mandating-ultrasounds/615672.md?page=6)