# Conservatives Heckling Obama **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 15, 2012, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-heckling-obama/625295 "2012-06-15T23:11:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-heckling-obama/625295/41 "2012-06-17T19:57:19Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I’m not being sarcastic here, honest, but can one really have a business that acquires a failing company, guts it for any money it can, and then fires everyone, and believe they are doing good? They’re doing good for themselves. That’s all that matters. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-heckling-obama/625295/42 "2012-06-17T20:41:01Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That’s my whole point. Yes, I do think he’s wrong. > > I don’t believe people like Romney and Boehner and Ryan are thinking “Fuck America. We’ll just rip off the country for everything we can take and then become tax expats.” I think they really do believe that their economic policies are a good idea and will work. I personally think they’re wrong in their beliefs and that they’re deluding themselves with self-serving policies. But I think they’re sincere. And I’m willing to at least give their ideas a look and not dismiss them out of hand. I’m willing to consider the possibility. But, it has been my personal experience that most RWs I have encountered, on this Board and elsewhere on the Intertubes and IRL – not all, but most – are not merely mistaken, they are **bad people.** Rotten souls. Fundamentally dishonest. It’s not hard to tell. By “RWs,” I’m talking about “Staunch Conservatives” here, not “Main Street Republicans” or “Libertarians.” (As defined in the [Pew Political Typology.](http://www.people-press.org/2011/05/04/beyond-red-vs-blue-the-political-typology/)) ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-heckling-obama/625295/43 "2012-06-17T23:10:44Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I’m not being sarcastic here, honest, but can one really have a business that acquires a failing company, guts it for any money it can, and then fires everyone, and believe they are doing good? Possibly. On one level they have contempt for the American worker, who needs to become more productive. That’s not pure speculation, btw, I understand that was the actual attitude at Bain. So they introduce incentives to cut costs, which has a predictable effect on product quality and careers but produces solid metrics. Then they sell the company to some collection of chumps and wash their hands of the matter. Hey, their profits increased while _they_ owned the business. Psychologically, they elide rent extraction (from suppliers, customers and workers who relied on the firms former reputation) with long term productivity improvement. Larry Summers wrote about this economic process in a Brookings journal from the early 1990s. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2012, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-heckling-obama/625295/44 "2012-06-17T23:49:19Z")
So, I’ll gut this company, and the guys who lose their jobs will vote for me! Sounds kind of unrealistic. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-heckling-obama/625295/45 "2012-06-18T00:52:54Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I’m not being sarcastic here, honest, but can one really have a business that acquires a failing company, guts it for any money it can, and then fires everyone, and believe they are doing good? Yes. One can believe that such a process weeds out inefficient or noncompetitive companies and efficiently redirects it resources into more competitive operations within or without the same industry. That’s the free market model. What one cannot honestly believe is that such is “job creation.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-heckling-obama/625295/46 "2012-06-18T01:32:24Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > So, I’ll gut this company, and the guys who lose their jobs will vote for me! > > Sounds kind of unrealistic. :dubious: Nevertheless, there are such things as “values voters” to whom RW social/moral/religious/cultural considerations trump their economic interests even as they perceive them. Despite the designation, most of those are actually bad people, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-heckling-obama/625295/47 "2012-06-18T01:59:25Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Despite the designation, most of those are actually bad people, IMO. I can’t believe that. The constituency here includes folks like the guy who say my Yankee #2 Wife stuck in the snow and when his truck wouldn’t pull her van out, went to get his “Daddy’s Big Truck” which did. Many of them are honest, kind, hard working people, and I cannot imagine why they would vote against their own best interests. It isn’t racism, they always vote that way. Perhaps gun control and religion are more important to them then a living wage and health care. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-heckling-obama/625295/48 "2012-06-18T02:06:54Z")
“say” should of course be “saw”. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-heckling-obama/625295/49 "2012-06-18T05:18:08Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I can’t believe that. > The constituency here includes folks like the guy who say my Yankee #2 Wife stuck in the snow and when his truck wouldn’t pull her van out, went to get his “Daddy’s Big Truck” which did. Many of them are honest, kind, hard working people, and I cannot imagine why they would vote against their own best interests. It isn’t racism, they always vote that way. Perhaps gun control and religion are more important to them then a living wage and health care. Well, maybe I’m judging too much by RW Internet-personas. (And I still think the Tea Partiers are mostly bad people.) As to why they vote against their best interests, which they do, that’s been a matter of debate for decades now; apparently their values-complex includes economic conservatism in the sense of a belief in self-reliance, the-government-governs-best-that-governs-least, taxes bad, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-heckling-obama/625295/50 "2012-06-18T06:13:12Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I’m willing to consider the possibility. But, it has been my personal experience that most RWs I have encountered, on this Board and elsewhere on the Intertubes and IRL – not all, but most – are not merely mistaken, they are **bad people.** Rotten souls. Fundamentally dishonest. It’s not hard to tell. By “RWs,” I’m talking about “Staunch Conservatives” here, not “Main Street Republicans” or “Libertarians.” (As defined in the [Pew Political Typology.](http://www.people-press.org/2011/05/04/beyond-red-vs-blue-the-political-typology/)) But what about the people I mentioned? Mitt Romney, John Boehner, and Paul Ryan. Do you classify them as well-intentioned people who hold mistaken beliefs or as rotten souls who are knowingly doing wrong? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-heckling-obama/625295/51 "2012-06-18T06:38:05Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But what about the people I mentioned? Mitt Romney, John Boehner, and Paul Ryan. Do you classify them as well-intentioned people who hold mistaken beliefs or as rotten souls who are knowingly doing wrong? Boehner and Romney are rotten souls, to be sure; don’t know much about Ryan. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-heckling-obama/625295/52 "2012-06-18T13:55:27Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Yes. > > One can believe that such a process weeds out inefficient or noncompetitive companies and efficiently redirects it resources into more competitive operations within or without the same industry. That’s the free market model. > > What one cannot honestly believe is that such is “job creation.” Depends. Were there net jobs created by the process? And that would be as compared to what would be expected to happen without the intervention. Not an easy thing to determine, but hardly something one could question someone’s honesty over. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-heckling-obama/625295/53 "2012-06-20T21:01:30Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Depends. Were there net jobs created by the process? And that would be as compared to what would be expected to happen without the intervention. Not an easy thing to determine, but hardly something one could question someone’s honesty over. I don’t think Bain Capital gave two shits if any net jobs were created. That was not what they were paid to do. They were paid to make as large a profit as possible and return value to the shareholders. Nothing more, nothing less. In hindsight, Romney and his mates may try to spin it as “net” job creation, but at the time, that was not a metric they were judged by, so I believe that it held no meaning whatsoever for them. On the whole people do not think of themselves as bad people, doing bad things (excluding sociopaths, who do not care one way or the other). Folks will create justifications for what they do, in order to live with themselves. They’ll tell themselves that they are doing things for the greater good. Of course, this does not make it true; it just makes them feel better about the bad things that they are doing. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-heckling-obama/625295/54 "2012-06-21T02:04:22Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Folks will create justifications for what they do, in order to live with themselves. I think they were just making money, and screw the little guys. Lie to the little guys and they will vote for you, too. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-heckling-obama/625295/55 "2012-06-29T03:38:33Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Yesterday, the Romney Campaign Bus circled outside Obama’s Ohio economic speech harassing attendees – _with reporters on board_. Today, a reporter from the GOP-mouthpiece The Daily Caller loudly heckled Obama in the middle of a speech on the White House lawn. > > I’m sensing something more than random incidents. I predict that we’ll continue to see second-grade bullshit like this through November. It’s a reflection of the unhinged Obama-hate coursing through Fox News America right now, as well as the Romney campaign’s effort to harness it. > > For debate: Do you share my prediction? Assuming these incidents continue, will the tactic have the desired effect? Is there anything effective Obama can do about it? If Obama was as unpopular as Herbert Hoover was in 1932 I think heckling him would reinforce the perception that he was unpopular. Because he is slightly ahead in the polls, and because many voters have still not made up their minds I think heckling will engender sympathy for him if he handles it well. The heckling could easily get nasty with people yelling “Kill him!” and “Traitor!” That will hurt Romney. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-heckling-obama/625295.md?page=2)