# Conservatives in UK about to sell the "Royal Mail" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 4, 2015, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-in-uk-about-to-sell-the-royal-mail/721633 "2015-06-04T15:40:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-in-uk-about-to-sell-the-royal-mail/721633/21 "2015-06-05T09:54:02Z")
> [@MarcusF](#): > > Don’t get me wrong, I worked in the public sector for thirty years and strongly believe some things need to have state involvement, nor would I defend some of the idiocies that successive governments have perpetrated in the way things have been privatised (British Rail anyone?), but for god’s sake don’t assume state run enterprises are better for the consumer thanks to their selfless staff not being tied to the profit motive. An unfortunate example - while the privatisation of British Rail was not handled particularly well (and I know firsthand - I worked for OPRAF and the SRA), BR pre-privatisation was a corrupt, inefficient disaster. I have many issues with the current system (although one of my biggest was the creation of Railtrack, which made no sense under the franchise approach) but I’ll take the current railway over BR as it was. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-in-uk-about-to-sell-the-royal-mail/721633/22 "2015-06-05T10:15:33Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > The private sector usually does a better job with lower costs: especially pension legacy benefits. [lower costs, indeed.](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/07/01/inmates-sick-maggots-prison/11890175/) ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-in-uk-about-to-sell-the-royal-mail/721633/23 "2015-06-05T10:22:28Z")
Meh. Royal Mail under state ownership was stuck in the 1950s with ridiculous opening times for sorting offices. Since they were largely privatised they’ve started trialling Sunday opening times and have started delivering parcels on Sundays. Also, parcel delivery is a massively competitive market with dozens of competitors, and who sends letters any more? What few people or business that do will either move over to e-mail like the rest of the developed world in the next few decades or die from old age. Better to sell off now than be stuck with it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-in-uk-about-to-sell-the-royal-mail/721633/24 "2015-06-05T13:40:14Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > [lower costs, indeed.](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/07/01/inmates-sick-maggots-prison/11890175/) To be clear, you’re arguing that the kind of thing in your link (maggots in food) happens with private contractors, but not with government employee run prison food systems? ---
**Author:** ![kbear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4491bb/32.png) [@kbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kbear)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-in-uk-about-to-sell-the-royal-mail/721633/25 "2015-06-05T13:53:48Z")
Since privatisation, there has been more competition in the residential mail delivery service. I often receive mail more than once a day, from two different companies. Seems like an awfully inefficient way to deliver dozens of catalogues I never signed up for :-/ ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-in-uk-about-to-sell-the-royal-mail/721633/26 "2015-06-05T15:11:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > To be clear, you’re arguing that the kind of thing in your link (maggots in food) happens with private contractors, but not with government employee run prison food systems? I’m arguing that private entities have more incentive to cut corners to improve profitability. people conflate doing something “cheaply” with doing it “efficiently.” ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-in-uk-about-to-sell-the-royal-mail/721633/27 "2015-06-05T15:28:33Z")
> [@MarcusF](#): > > Who are these people with “a dedication to providing the service”? The bosses in the state monopolies were dedicated to maintaining their own interests and satisfying their political masters, the consumers had no option so customer satisfaction was way down their priority list. Their interests are the public’s interest: maintaining the services. Who are these political masters you’re talking about? Do you think Obama’s personally writing desk procedures on how to deliver mail or something? > [@MarcusF](#): > > Don’t get me wrong, I worked in the public sector for thirty years and strongly believe some things need to have state involvement, nor would I defend some of the idiocies that successive governments have perpetrated in the way things have been privatised (British Rail anyone?), but for god’s sake don’t assume state run enterprises are better for the consumer thanks to their selfless staff not being tied to the profit motive. You assume too much. Nowhere have I claimed that state run services are better. They may or may not be. But they are guaranteed and will always run without regard for profit, which is important when you’re trying to maintain a minimum standard of service for people who may not be able to pay for it. You talk about idiocies of state run enterprises but what can you suggest that a private company can do in maintaining it worrying about how much money it makes? Lets say the government decides that in the near future, a minimum high speed internet connection is necessary for people to function. Do you trust a private company to run a fiber optic cable to a town of a hundred people in some rural area, losing money in the process? If there is no government forcing them to do that, why would they bother to do it on their own? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-in-uk-about-to-sell-the-royal-mail/721633/28 "2015-06-05T16:10:22Z")
Since he is talking about British public industries, I am about 99.9% certain that he doesn’t think Obama is involved. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-in-uk-about-to-sell-the-royal-mail/721633/29 "2015-06-05T16:27:23Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > … Do you trust a private company to run a fiber optic cable to a town of a hundred people in some rural area, losing money in the process? If there is no government forcing them to do that, why would they bother to do it on their own? Government can step up with incentives. That’s exactly how I and other rural residents got access to high-speed internet only about 10 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-in-uk-about-to-sell-the-royal-mail/721633/30 "2015-06-05T18:34:37Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Why SHOULDN’T it be involved? You haven’t answered that question yet. The government, as a rule, should only be involved in things it needs to be involved in. It’s up to whoever thinks it should get involved to defend it. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2015, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-in-uk-about-to-sell-the-royal-mail/721633/31 "2015-06-06T09:09:11Z")
Privatisation of public services in the UK has been a mixed bag. In the case of utilities, it seems to have been generally positive and has allowed consumers to choose suppliers, which in turn has driven the suppliers to become leaner and more service-oriented. In the case of rail transport, the system was broken up into essentially a collection of small, greedy monopolies, who in their thirst for revenue have driven up the costs and compromised on service (and in notable cases, safety, leading to passenger deaths) Royal Mail privatisation seems like it should resemble the former more than the latter, as there is already a rich market of competing choices for carriage of physical deliveries. The big problem is more likely to be that RM is too badly broken and too inefficient to survive the transition. Yeah, end of an era and all that, but nostalgia is the worst possible reason to hang on to this legacy now. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-in-uk-about-to-sell-the-royal-mail/721633/32 "2015-06-08T09:02:38Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > But they are guaranteed and will always run without regard for profit, which is important when you’re trying to maintain a minimum standard of service for people who may not be able to pay for it. The minimum standard of service for letter carrying in the UK is enshrined in law as a universal service obligation. The privatised Royal Mail is still subject to this obligation. Similarly, broadband infrastructure in the UK is largely handled by BT Openreach, the infrastructure division of the previously nationalised British Telecom, which is mandated by the Enterprise Act 2002 to offer rival telecom operators access to the BT network. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-in-uk-about-to-sell-the-royal-mail/721633/33 "2015-06-08T09:42:41Z")
Well, that’s Thatcherism for you. They “sell off” public institutions to cronies and bankrollers. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-in-uk-about-to-sell-the-royal-mail/721633/34 "2015-06-08T13:17:12Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > … broadband infrastructure in the UK is largely handled by BT Openreach, the infrastructure division of the previously nationalised British Telecom, which is mandated by the Enterprise Act 2002 to offer rival telecom operators access to the BT network. That’s odd. BT was sold off in the early 1990s, wasn’t it? I understand why it was required to share access to its telephone network, but how did it have a head start on broadband? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-in-uk-about-to-sell-the-royal-mail/721633/35 "2015-06-08T13:44:23Z")
So, selling the Royal mail has nothing to do with the Queen’s Christmas cards. I learned something today. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-in-uk-about-to-sell-the-royal-mail/721633/36 "2015-06-08T16:33:21Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Government can step up with incentives. That’s exactly how I and other rural residents got access to high-speed internet only about 10 years ago. That’s good, hopefully this kind of service doesn’t stop for some stupid monetary reason > [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > The minimum standard of service for letter carrying in the UK is enshrined in law as a universal service obligation. The privatised Royal Mail is still subject to this obligation. Similarly, broadband infrastructure in the UK is largely handled by BT Openreach, the infrastructure division of the previously nationalised British Telecom, which is mandated by the Enterprise Act 2002 to offer rival telecom operators access to the BT network. Let’s just say I don’t at all trust that a private company will be equally motivated to maintain a minimum standard of service in perpetuity. With a change in representatives, a slight tweaking of the laws, those things can be gone in the next election cycle. Better to have them in the hands of the government where politicians are motivated by fear of the voters that they will not alter the service in any way. Its not the best strategy, but better than in the hands of a private company ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-in-uk-about-to-sell-the-royal-mail/721633/37 "2015-06-08T16:36:58Z")
Britain has “re-nationalized” privatized industries before. No reason it couldn’t do it again (other than its general trend away from nationalization over the past 40-odd years.) ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-in-uk-about-to-sell-the-royal-mail/721633/38 "2015-06-09T01:16:20Z")
I tend to be suspicious of privatization. This is partly because many times lawmakers undervalue the public asset to create a sweetheart deal for their friend and supporter who buys it. Also, some services do work better as state monopolies run in the public interest. I would hope that de-privatization at least has something like the rules in the USA that require a fair price for buying something through eminent domain. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-in-uk-about-to-sell-the-royal-mail/721633.md?page=1)