# Conservatives, including the President, exhibit aggressive neuroses **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 13, 2003, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-including-the-president-exhibit-aggressive-neuroses/194975 "2003-08-13T18:43:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-including-the-president-exhibit-aggressive-neuroses/194975/21 "2003-08-18T03:02:27Z")
Neurotik: > [@](#): > > So sqweels, care to prove any of your assertions? Care to prove that conservatives are more likely to have “Yeah, but…” arguments than liberals? Frankly, your arguments are pathetic. > > \ > > The “researchers” did not look at liberal thought and compare it. I damn well coulda sworn…:mad: It’s not a question of who does it more. I just want to see conservatives judged on their own merits rather than in contrast to “liberals” _for once_. We can do the same with liberals in a separate thread. I will go so far as to say that conservatism is not defined as “anti-liberal”, rather liberalism is defined as “anti-conservative”. For example, the notion that the Bible is the inerrant word of God was not invented in response to the assertion that it is not, but rather vice-versa. > [@](#): > > If you Liberals are so concerned, why don’t YOU refute Morfos’s arguments? Fine. **Morfos** , your post is exagerrated and counter-productive. > [@](#): > > For all they know, the exact same set of broad neuroses are exhibited in liberal thought - but that was never examined. Maybe conservative tendencies are the same tendencies brought out by any partisan/ideological group. Maybe yes, maybe no. But two wrongs don’t make a right. There’s liberals, there’s centrists, there’s the psychologists of the OP, and there’s me. Now can we _please_ respond to the OP without any further references to “liberals”? > [@](#): > > And then they continued on to say that Stalin, Castro and Kruschev were actually conservatives because they fit into this framework of “conservative” thought. I agree with that entirely. Communist dictatorships and political correctness are two (very different) forms of left-wing conservatism. Nothing liberal about being dogmatic. (Is there no communist equivilent of Godwin?) Lemur866: > [@](#): > > If you Liberals are so concerned, why don’t YOU refute Morfos’s arguments? Fine. **Morfos** , your post is exagerrated and counter-productive. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-including-the-president-exhibit-aggressive-neuroses/194975/22 "2003-08-18T13:37:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sqweels \* > **It’s not a question of who does it more. I just want to see conservatives judged on their own merits rather than in contrast to “liberals” _for once_. We can do the same with liberals in a separate thread.** Unfortunately, you can’t do that in a thread with an OP like this one. If you are going to say that conservatives have such and such mental disorders and these are defining characteristics of conservatives, it is a completely valid argument to say that these aren’t confined to conservatives, but that liberals exhibit these tendencies as well. For example, you said: > [@](#): > > What makes conservatives think they can neutralize any criticism by simply saying “Yeah, but liberals…”? Is there never any self-examination among conservatives? Can we never stick to the subject of examining conservative attitudes without changing the subject to liberals? You attribute this certain action to conservatives. Except, we have several liberals [doing the exact same thing.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=204704&highlight=french) Someone criticized the French government, and the response was “Yeah, but the US…” So can we say to liberals, is there any self-examination among liberals (even though it wasn’t about liberals…just stick with me)? Can we never stick to the subject of examining a countries actions without changing the subject to the US? Or is it more accurate to say, why can’t partisans and ideologues of any stripe ever stick to the subject at hand, without dragging in their favorite target? You see where I’m going with this? If you’re going to criticize some group for doing something or having some attitude and saying, this is why they’re jerks, it’s completely valid to say, well, this group does it too, why don’t you think they’re jerks? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-including-the-president-exhibit-aggressive-neuroses/194975/23 "2003-08-18T14:02:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sqweels \* > \*\ ***Shodan** , your post also contains very little substance, with one exception. Instead, you simply quoted Morphos’ post at length and nitpicked the spelling. \*\* Of course I did - there was nothing of substance to respond to. For heaven’s sake, he called conservatives Nazis, childish, selfish, greedy, hateful, and stated that he assumed all conservatives were assholes until proven otherwise - and then asserted that it was conservatives who could not debate without descending into personal attacks. He asserted that liberals were better educated than conservatives, in a post littered with more elementary spelling, grammatical, and punctuation boners than I care to count. What else was there to do but mock his moronic rant? And then, as if determined to prove that conservatives have no monopoly on dimwitted drivel, we have **Evil Captor** attributing to me a quote which appears nowhere in this thread. Why are you liberals so bent on proving my point for me? We have a post from **morphos** which I will handle appropriately as soon as I can figure out how to feed Charmin thru my printer. We have **Evil Captor** demonstrating that he apparently does not know what thread he is in. And we have **sqweels** trying desperately to rule out any discussion of the motives of this rather obviously biased study, and limit the debate only to the flaws of conservatives. The title of this forum is “Great Debates”, not “Let’s Have a Circle Jerk Over the Latest Issue of Mother Jones”. The OP was regarding a political attack masquerading as a psychological study. **elucidator** already brought it up in the Pit, and made a rather lame attempt to pass it off as a joke once the tide turned. Here it is again, with the appropriately low level of debate one would expect from so blatant an attempt to pass off political conviction as psychological insight. Garbage in, garbage out. The study was garbage, so was **morphos** ’ post. What the hell did you expect? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-including-the-president-exhibit-aggressive-neuroses/194975/24 "2003-08-18T14:04:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sqweels \* > **It’s not a question of who does it more. I just want to see conservatives judged on their own merits rather than in contrast to “liberals” _for once_. We can do the same with liberals in a separate thread.** Unfortunately, you can’t do that in a thread with an OP like this one. If you are going to say that conservatives have such and such mental disorders and these are defining characteristics of conservatives, it is a completely valid argument to say that these aren’t confined to conservatives, but that liberals exhibit these tendencies as well. For example, you said: > [@](#): > > What makes conservatives think they can neutralize any criticism by simply saying “Yeah, but liberals…”? Is there never any self-examination among conservatives? Can we never stick to the subject of examining conservative attitudes without changing the subject to liberals? You attribute this certain action to conservatives. Except, we have several liberals [doing the exact same thing.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=204704&highlight=french) Someone criticized the French government, and the response was “Yeah, but the US…” So can we say to liberals, is there any self-examination among liberals (even though it wasn’t about liberals…just stick with me)? Can we never stick to the subject of examining a countries actions without changing the subject to the US? Or is it more accurate to say, why can’t partisans and ideologues of any stripe ever stick to the subject at hand, without dragging in their favorite target? You see where I’m going with this? If you’re going to criticize some group for doing something or having some attitude and saying, this is why they’re jerks, it’s completely valid to say, well, this group does it too, why don’t you think they’re jerks? ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-including-the-president-exhibit-aggressive-neuroses/194975/25 "2003-08-18T14:09:56Z")
Well, crap. If a mod wants to delete one of the doubles, feel free. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-including-the-president-exhibit-aggressive-neuroses/194975/26 "2003-08-18T16:15:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Morfos \* > Want to know what I think about Conservatives? My strawman is here to kick your strawman’s ass: Economics Liberals have little or no understanding of economics, prefering “good intentions” over sound economic theory. Wealthy people (especially those of white European decent) only achieve their wealth through the cheating and manipulation of others. As most liberals are themselves poor or the bored self-loathing offspring of the wealthy, they have little need to understand the nature of wealth or economics. Let’s just throw money at everything! Someone will pay for it! Environment If it were up to the liberals, we would all be driving electric cars with a range of 10 miles and wearing hemp pants. It isn’t as if conservatives hate the environment, it’s just that sitting around banging a bongo in tie-died shirts is not an effective way to find a replacement for the internal combustion engine, or plastic and paper products. Social Views Liberals believe that everyone should be treated equally, even if they are not equal. Not smart enough to get into school? Surely we can find a subcatagory to classify you as so we can adjust your scores accordingly. Anything goes in the liberal world. In fact, traditional values are something to be mocked and ridiculed. Traditional marriage? That’s just for conformos. You are only truly enlightened if your life partner" is a gay black transvestite. Liberals have a smug self-righteous view of the world that only comes from being raised in an environment without poverty or hardship. It is the product of having gone to the best schools and studying the stupidest majors. They know what’s best for everyone and anyone who disagrees lacks an “enlightened” world view that only comes from being able to take a year off to backpack through Europe. Intolerance Are you a middle-class white person? Liberals hate you. You are the source of all the worlds troubles and are thus accountable for solving them with your tax dollars. Liberals are quick to criticise but slow to act. How many liberals would pick up a rifle to defend their beliefs? Most wouldn’t, prefering instead to poke jabs at the very people who defend their freedoms while hiding behind a wall of ivory-tower psuedo-intellectualism. …so eat hay Bi-ATCH! ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-including-the-president-exhibit-aggressive-neuroses/194975/27 "2003-08-18T16:39:24Z")
Neurotik: [quote] You attribute this certain action to conservatives. Except, we have several liberals doing the exact same thing. Someone criticized the French government, and the response was “Yeah, but the US…” So can we say to liberals, is there any self-examination among liberals (even though it wasn’t about liberals…just stick with me)? Can we never stick to the subject of examining a countries actions without changing the subject to the US? [quote] Sure we can, _in a different friggin’ thread_. Or is it more accurate to say, why can’t partisans and ideologues of any stripe ever stick to the subject at hand, without dragging in their favorite target? Darn tootin’. But this thread is not about ideolgues in general, but conservatives in particular. > [@](#): > > If you’re going to criticize some group for doing something or having some attitude and saying, this is why they’re jerks, it’s completely valid to say, well, this group does it too, why don’t you think they’re jerks? Who says I don’t? **Morfos** , you’re a jerk for calling conservatives Nazis. And it’s _not_ a valid defense. Just because Eddie Haskell does it doesn’t mean its OK for The Beaver to do it in the eyes of Ward and June. (Actually, it’s conservatives who are more like Eddie Haskell :D) ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-including-the-president-exhibit-aggressive-neuroses/194975/28 "2003-08-18T17:06:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sqweels \* > **Darn tootin’. But this thread is not about ideolgues in general, but conservatives in particular.** Yes, it’s about someone claiming certain things are _unique_ to conservatives. If someone can point out that they are _not unique_ and that other groups share those characteristics, then that is a valid argument and germane to this discussion. It’s really not a hard concept. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-including-the-president-exhibit-aggressive-neuroses/194975/29 "2003-08-18T17:27:00Z")
If occurs to me that if **December** had opened a thread even half as baiting as this one, he would have been pitted and we’d be treated to about 100 roll-eyes icons. Instead, we get a ‘serious’ debate about just how screwed up conservatives are. Nope. No bias around here. ---
**Author:** ![Milum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea666f/32.png) [@Milum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milum)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-including-the-president-exhibit-aggressive-neuroses/194975/30 "2003-08-18T17:36:00Z")
Er… far be it for me to criticize your most excellent comments **msmith357** , but didn’t you leave out the part where self-described liberals have the most deeply ingrained need to belong to a clique, to conform, to stay the partyline, to closely follow the vogue thoughts of others liberals and liberalettes. This need , my scientific studies have shown, stems from a deeply-rooted sense of general inadequacy and a great fear of being all alone in a unsympathetic world that frightens. That’s what my studies showed. ---
**Author:** ![Milum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea666f/32.png) [@Milum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milum)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-including-the-president-exhibit-aggressive-neuroses/194975/31 "2003-08-18T17:42:14Z")
Er… far be it for me to criticize your most excellent comments **msmith357** , but didn’t you leave out the part where self-described liberals have the most deeply ingrained need to belong to a clique, to conform, to stay the partyline, to closely follow the vogue thoughts of others liberals and liberalettes. This need , my scientific studies have shown, stems from a deeply-rooted sense of general inadequacy and a great fear of being all alone in a unsympathetic world that frightens. That’s what my studies showed. ---
**Author:** ![Milum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea666f/32.png) [@Milum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milum)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-including-the-president-exhibit-aggressive-neuroses/194975/32 "2003-08-18T17:44:32Z")
Ummm…who is that other milum? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-including-the-president-exhibit-aggressive-neuroses/194975/33 "2003-08-18T18:22:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > \*\*If occurs to me that if **December** had opened a thread even half as baiting as this one, he would have been pitted and we’d be treated to about 100 roll-eyes icons. Instead, we get a ‘serious’ debate about just how screwed up conservatives are. > > Nope. No bias around here. \*\* The above is evidence that conservatives lack a sense of humor, or even irony. They do, however, tend to nurse feelings of paranoia in the face of all evidence, even manufacturing reasons where necessary. Sammy, did you feel a breeze when reading the OP? No? ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-including-the-president-exhibit-aggressive-neuroses/194975/34 "2003-08-19T14:02:50Z")
Researchers at UC Berkeley say that conservatives are looney. Isn’t that a lot like Phillip Morris saying that non-smokers are looney? ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-including-the-president-exhibit-aggressive-neuroses/194975/35 "2003-08-19T14:30:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\*The above is evidence that conservatives lack a sense of humor, or even irony. They do, however, tend to nurse feelings of paranoia in the face of all evidence, even manufacturing reasons where necessary. > > Sammy, did you feel a breeze when reading the OP? No? \*\* The above is evidence that liberals lack an ability to discriminate between an individual and a group, and avoid making generalizations about the latter based on the actions of the former. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-including-the-president-exhibit-aggressive-neuroses/194975/36 "2003-08-19T17:21:55Z")
My research shows that liberals have small penises. I have personally conducted a double-blind research study where I examined the penises of 1000 liberals and 1000 conservatives, and I was much more impressed with the conservative penises. What? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-including-the-president-exhibit-aggressive-neuroses/194975/37 "2003-08-19T19:48:01Z")
**Lemur866** , how does one do a blind study, much less a double-blind one, on penis size? And remember, it ain’t the size, it’s what you do with it. At least you felt the breeze that **Neurotik** didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-including-the-president-exhibit-aggressive-neuroses/194975/38 "2003-08-19T21:54:17Z")
Yes Elvis, but I’ll bet he forgot to compensate for a sex dependent bias in his sample cohorts. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-including-the-president-exhibit-aggressive-neuroses/194975/39 "2003-08-19T22:07:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\*At least you felt the breeze that **Neurotik** didn’t. \*\* Perhaps you should read my post again and re-examine who didn’t feel the breeze. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-including-the-president-exhibit-aggressive-neuroses/194975/40 "2003-08-19T22:10:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\*At least you felt the breeze that **Neurotik** didn’t. \*\* Thank you for acknowledging that you didn’t whoosh me. Or maybe you meant that you did. If that’s the case, read my post again and rethink who did the whooshing. (Hint: It wasn’t you.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-including-the-president-exhibit-aggressive-neuroses/194975.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-including-the-president-exhibit-aggressive-neuroses/194975.md?page=3)