# Conservatives on immigration are the most vicious people on earth **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 20, 2017, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-on-immigration-are-the-most-vicious-people-on-earth/784828 "2017-04-20T08:38:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-on-immigration-are-the-most-vicious-people-on-earth/784828/61 "2017-04-21T04:28:06Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Work to change the law then. Mods can close all the political threads now. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-on-immigration-are-the-most-vicious-people-on-earth/784828/62 "2017-04-21T12:18:59Z")
> [@Beren\_Erchamion](#): > > How about just “person”? And when I need to be able to identify what makes this specific person a concern of the law, I’d be fine with “unauthorized immigrant”. Sometimes you DO need to identify. BTW I suppose you could be an “undocumented worker” while being a bona fide citizen – just never presented a SSN and are working on a cash only basis to stay off the grid for whatever your reason. Hell, the big issue as I see it is with the shortening of “illegal immigrants/aliens” to plain “illegals” because it carries the implication _that illegality is the essential element of their very existence_. But the thing is, “illegal”, “undocumented” etc. are adjective _modifiers_ – you are an illegal _what_?. Some 13 year old operating a car without a license is an illegal _driver_, not “an illegal”; someone performing dental surgery without a degree is running an illegal practice, he’s not “an illegal”. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-on-immigration-are-the-most-vicious-people-on-earth/784828/63 "2017-04-21T13:04:21Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > kaylasdad99 wrote: " Please don’t use the word “illegal” as a noun. It is dehumanizing, and decent people don’t." > > Point taken, but I’ve never cared for the term “undocumented” either. Makes it sound like they lost their wallet. Perhaps “uninvited guest”? Only one of the two will [get you a bad grade](https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2015/08/31/campus-reform/). ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-on-immigration-are-the-most-vicious-people-on-earth/784828/64 "2017-04-21T13:54:19Z")
I’m going to ignore the whole “people on the Internet said vile things” thing because, even though I agree those things are vile, [people on the internet often say vile things](https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-Greater-Internet-Fuckwad-Theory) regardless of political affiliation. But right at the moment the basest of the Trump base - the true deplorables, if you will - do certainly seem to have crawled out from under their usual rocks in order to exult in the ascendance of their worst instincts and revel in the pain and anxiety this causes in others. One can only hope the increased exposure will, in the longer term, decrease their proliferation and potency. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Those pro-deportation conservatives certainly are the most vicious people on earth. Why, even Hitler didn’t… As Voltaire\* didn’t say, “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death my right to find it highly amusing.” [\*or Evelyn Beatrice Hall](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evelyn_Beatrice_Hall) ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-on-immigration-are-the-most-vicious-people-on-earth/784828/65 "2017-04-21T15:01:33Z")
It is hard for people of a certain age to keep abreast of linguistic changes. Terms which were, for much of their lives, considered polite terms of address are now regarded as offensive. We’re in a forum here, the pit, in which being offensive is taken for granted. But I would never wish to offense _unintentionally._ ---
**Author:** ![Salvor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Salvor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Salvor)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-on-immigration-are-the-most-vicious-people-on-earth/784828/66 "2017-04-21T16:27:34Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Please don’t use the word “illegal” as a noun. It is dehumanizing, and decent people don’t. No. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/UNS2zpJT6D4/maxresdefault.jpg "Real Time with Bill Maher: Jorge Ramos – No Human Being Is Illegal (HBO)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNS2zpJT6D4) You need to stop this, right now. This attitude, and it worked on Maher as he is using a different term now, is absolute poison. First of all, you are never going to stop conservatives that are hostile to illegal immigration to stop using the term. But more than that, it’s the sort of language policing that makes people hate liberals. And I’d really rather not contribute to making us look like fools and brittle little flowers. Using the term illegal is not a slur in my mind, it may be to conservatives, but leaving the term to them just makes it so that the only time it is ever used, it comes across as a slur. When I use it, it is nothing more than descriptive, it connotes nothing more than an immigrant that came here illegally. Not that I am repulsed by their presence, or want to deport them all. What you want to do, will effectively leave the word use in such a state that the only people who use it will lace it with far more venom than if it was a more broad term. This reminds me of hearing that some disabled people were annoyed that others would walk on egg shells so as not to ever use the word “crippled” when they themselves often used the word to describe some of their ailments. Calm the hell down. That is a terrible attitude and impulse on the left. ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-on-immigration-are-the-most-vicious-people-on-earth/784828/67 "2017-04-21T16:33:33Z")
> [@Salvor](#): > > But more than that, it’s the sort of language policing that makes people hate liberals. Demanding that people of color be treated like human beings is the sort of morality policing that made people hate civil rights activists; what’s your point? > [@](#): > > And I’d really rather not contribute to making us look like fools and brittle little flowers. I really don’t care what moral degenerates think of me for behaving like a decent person, and I’m not going to stop behaving like a decent person just so moral degenerates will like me. > [@](#): > > Using the term illegal is not a slur in my mind Then you’re wrong. Whether or not something is a slur is determined by how the people targeted by it generally feel. It’s not up to you. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-on-immigration-are-the-most-vicious-people-on-earth/784828/68 "2017-04-21T16:43:29Z")
> [@Beren\_Erchamion](#): > > Then you’re wrong. Whether or not something is a slur is determined by how the people targeted by it generally feel. It’s not up to you. So you are an illegal immigrant? I didn’t know that. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-on-immigration-are-the-most-vicious-people-on-earth/784828/69 "2017-04-21T16:47:43Z")
> [@Beren\_Erchamion](#): > > Then you’re wrong. Whether or not something is a slur is determined by how the people targeted by it generally feel. It’s not up to you. Show me evidence that there’s a majority consensus among illegal aliens that the term “illegal”, used as a noun, actively offends them, and I will consider not using it. Actually, I already don’t use it. But there’s a big difference between “some people say it’s offensive” and “a preponderance of those being so described say it’s offensive”. (Of course, there are plenty of words that I believe are offensive not because people told me, but because I observe the context and tone with which they’re used… n\ ***er, c** t, etc. But I have not observed that being true about the term “illegal”.) ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-on-immigration-are-the-most-vicious-people-on-earth/784828/70 "2017-04-21T16:55:41Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > It is hard for people of a certain age to keep abreast of linguistic changes. Terms which were, for much of their lives, considered polite terms of address are now regarded as offensive. Until 6 years ago I never heard the term “illegal” full stop to refer to unauthorized immigrants. It was either “illegal immigrants” or occasionally “illegal aliens” but that term was falling out of place as I was growing up, probably as being too _obviously_ dehumanizing due to the additional meaning the word “alien” picked up in the last hundred years or so. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-on-immigration-are-the-most-vicious-people-on-earth/784828/71 "2017-04-21T18:07:28Z")
> [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > The other day when that DREAM act student was deported (within three hours from detaining him!) it didn’t matter that he was here as a legal resident. [He wasn’t.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/04/19/the-trump-administration-has-deported-a-dreamer-for-first-time-advocates-say/?utm_term=.98a5b4b5d1b5) He had no legal residency. He was eligible under a policy created by the Obama administration for “deferred action,” which merely means that it was the policy of the administration at the time to not take any action to deport him. This is not the same as “legal residency.” This statement is not intended to be “hateful.” It’s a statement of legal fact. I don’t think anyone does any favors by not understanding or correctly conveying the legal issues. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-on-immigration-are-the-most-vicious-people-on-earth/784828/72 "2017-04-21T18:20:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > [He wasn’t.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/04/19/the-trump-administration-has-deported-a-dreamer-for-first-time-advocates-say/?utm_term=.98a5b4b5d1b5) > > He had no legal residency. He was eligible under a policy created by the Obama administration for “deferred action,” which merely means that it was the policy of the administration at the time to not take any action to deport him. > > This is not the same as “legal residency.” > > This statement is not intended to be “hateful.” It’s a statement of legal fact. I don’t think anyone does any favors by not understanding or correctly conveying the legal issues. Indeed, of course here I have to say that a very conservative and wealthy Hispanic relative of mine is a Republican, but even he told me that he truly disliked how the Republicans were going after the Dreamers. Seems that he voted for Trump expecting that he would not be as bad as the Democrats painted him. He is not bound to do that mistake again. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-on-immigration-are-the-most-vicious-people-on-earth/784828/73 "2017-04-21T18:26:09Z")
Anyone else having Barbra Streisand ringing around in his head? \*Conservatives… Conservatives on immigrationnnn… Are the vicious-est people… In the worrrrrlld…\* Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-on-immigration-are-the-most-vicious-people-on-earth/784828/74 "2017-04-21T18:58:25Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Please don’t use the word “illegal” as a noun. It is dehumanizing, and decent people don’t. Do you have an alternative suggestion? Person of unknown provenance perhaps? That doesn’t roll off the tongue as well. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-on-immigration-are-the-most-vicious-people-on-earth/784828/75 "2017-04-21T19:29:07Z")
“unauthorized immigrant”. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-on-immigration-are-the-most-vicious-people-on-earth/784828/76 "2017-04-21T19:42:45Z")
> [@Beren\_Erchamion](#): > > Then you’re wrong. Whether or not something is a slur is determined by how the people targeted by it generally feel. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-on-immigration-are-the-most-vicious-people-on-earth/784828/77 "2017-04-21T19:48:12Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Do you have an alternative suggestion? Person of unknown provenance perhaps? That doesn’t roll off the tongue as well. It’s better, at least in your proposed phrase, you acknowledge that they are a person. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-on-immigration-are-the-most-vicious-people-on-earth/784828/78 "2017-04-21T20:03:03Z")
It really doesn’t matter because any “acceptable” term will, over time and through usage, _become_ a slur, or at least be regarded as one. I’m sorta reminded of that Lenny Bruce routine: Have to link to it. (Totally SFW) > **[How to Talk Dirty and Influence People](https://books.google.com/books?id=5Zr0CwAAQBAJ&pg=PT117&lpg=PT117&dq=lenny%2Bbruce%2Bhotel%2Broom%2Btrailer&source=bl&ots=ZZQyH0mIui&sig=SpdEomOcxakOyP--mnweTG4jLEI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjg78bIq7bTAhUQ5mMKHU03AIAQ6AEIKjAB#v=onepage&q=lenny%20bruce%20hotel%20room%20trailer&f=false)** > > During the course of a career that began in the late 1940s, Lenny Bruce challenged the sanctity of organized religion and other societal and political conventions; he widened the boundaries of free speech. Critic Ralph Gleason said, "So many taboos... ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-on-immigration-are-the-most-vicious-people-on-earth/784828/79 "2017-04-21T20:13:00Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So you are an illegal immigrant? No, but undocumented immigrants generally do consider it a slur, and they’re the only ones whose opinions matter. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-on-immigration-are-the-most-vicious-people-on-earth/784828/80 "2017-04-21T20:16:17Z")
> [@Beren\_Erchamion](#): > > Demanding that people of color be treated like human beings is the sort of morality policing that made people hate civil rights activists; what’s your point? > I really don’t care what moral degenerates think of me for behaving like a decent person, and I’m not going to stop behaving like a decent person just so moral degenerates will like me. > Then you’re wrong. Whether or not something is a slur is determined by how the people targeted by it generally feel. It’s not up to you. Is using the word “criminal” as a noun forbidden as well? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-on-immigration-are-the-most-vicious-people-on-earth/784828.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-on-immigration-are-the-most-vicious-people-on-earth/784828.md?page=5)