# Conservatives Overwhelmingly Oppose Healthcare for 9/11 Workers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 1, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816 "2010-08-01T20:05:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/21 "2010-08-01T22:46:48Z")
The “Repugs” opposed the bill. > [@](#): > > Should providing medical care to 9/11 rescue workers and people with 9/11-related illnesses be controversial? Is there something wrong with that? Conservatives are giving a firm “yes”. And people like this don’t tell the whole truth about what the bill does. But that’s not repugnant. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/22 "2010-08-01T22:47:45Z")
> [@Digital\_Stimulus](#): > > > [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > > > It happens a lot, but usually in cases where the bill isn’t particularly controversial. > > Thank you. Not that you’d necessarily have any info on this particular bill, but an obvious follow-up question: I understand that _now_ this bill is (or has become) controversial, but _was_ it (prior to this procedural move)? I don’t know much about this bill particularly, but its my understanding that the Republicans wanted to add an amendment to make sure that none of the money goes to illegal immigrants, and the Democrats tried to pass the bill under suspension of the rules so that the amendment couldn’t have been added. ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/23 "2010-08-01T23:21:36Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > > [@sleeping](#): > > > > Depends on you mean by controversial. By definition, any time time there is considerable opposition, controversy exists. And this goes straight to the heart of the matter: Should providing medical care to 9/11 rescue workers and people with 9/11-related illnesses be controversial? Is there something wrong with that? Conservatives are giving a firm “yes”. > > Again - and here I’m just trying to see if a real discussion can be created out of this - the yes/no vote here is not a question of whether “9/11 rescue workers and people with 9/11 related illnesses” should either be given medical benefits or not given medical benefits. **It appears to be a question of whether a fairly large sum of money should be earmarked to pay people who might have 9/11-related medical problems, but then again might not have, or who might have medical conditions that have nothing to do with cleaning up the 9/11 site at all, ON TOP OF any medical insurance they might already have, which, given that most such workers are firefighters, cops, et al., likely means most of them.** > > This sound a lot like a “you’re not honoring their sacrifice/letting the terrorists win by not giving them a pile of money/agreeing with my legislation” thing. What’s the case to be made for this bill? Just acting all pissed off isn’t a case. Why is it needed? This is absurd. It is obviously not possible to determine with certainty whether a given chronic disease is the result of any one factor, or the extent thereof. A registry was created to catalog the names of those who have been affected by it–that’s the best way we have of knowing who should be subject to the benefits of such a bill. And if the person already has medical benefits which provide coverage for said disease(s), then s/he would not be getting anything new. In short, this is a bullshit defense. ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/24 "2010-08-01T23:22:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And people like this don’t tell the whole truth about what the bill does. Then please, dear **Bricker** , enlighten us. Is there something not yet mentioned in this thread? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/25 "2010-08-01T23:29:54Z")
Sounds like politicking on both sides to me. And if the bill is that important, then let the Pubbies put in their anti-illegal alien stuff, and get the damn thing done. Pelosi know how to count votes (or whoever it is who does this for her), so they knew it wouldn’t pass. So, they get to paint the Pubbies in a negative light, then pass the bill anyway later. Washington. ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/26 "2010-08-01T23:37:46Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Sounds like politicking on both sides to me. And if the bill is that important, then let the Pubbies put in their anti-illegal alien stuff, and get the damn thing done. > > Pelosi know how to count votes (or whoever it is who does this for her), so they knew it wouldn’t pass. So, they get to paint the Pubbies in a negative light, then pass the bill anyway later. > > Washington. Well, I’m not disagreeing that both sides engaged in _some_ “politicking.” The point, however, is that this bill should not be controversial, and its opponents should be ashamed of themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/27 "2010-08-01T23:47:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Sounds like politicking on both sides to me. And if the bill is that important, then let the Pubbies put in their anti-illegal alien stuff, and get the damn thing done. > > Pelosi know how to count votes (or whoever it is who does this for her), so they knew it wouldn’t pass. So, they get to paint the Pubbies in a negative light, then pass the bill anyway later. > > Washington. And the Repubs knew that opposing this bill on bs gorunds would get them painted a America-hating monsters just as election season is starting up. Seems to me, the Democratic politicing worked much better. The Repubs could have passed this bill and gotten “we \ 9/11 first responders” and “we can work bipartisanly” points. Instead, the took and principleless stand and will get hammered for it in the press now and in millions of dollars worth of campaign ads for the next 4 months. ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2010, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/28 "2010-08-01T23:53:02Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > And the Repubs knew that opposing this bill on bs gorunds would get them painted a America-hating monsters just as election season is starting up. Seems to me, the Democratic politicing worked much better. The Repubs could have passed this bill and gotten “we \ 9/11 first responders” and “we can work bipartisanly” points. Instead, the took and principleless stand and will get hammered for it in the press now and in millions of dollars worth of campaign ads for the next 4 months. Like I said, these kinds of bullshit tactics and PR is always happening. You can attribute such base motivations to most people in Congress. The real issue here is why did the opponents vote against it? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/29 "2010-08-02T00:35:23Z")
> [@sleeping](#): > > Like I said, these kinds of bullshit tactics and PR is always happening. You can attribute such base motivations to most people in Congress. The real issue here is why did the opponents vote against it? Well, if Captain Amazing is right, won’t the talking point come pretty easily? _‘We sought to do right by those brave Americans who endured so much, but the Dems refused to pass the bill unless illegal immigrants got cash payouts…’_ ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/30 "2010-08-02T00:36:59Z")
> [@sleeping](#): > > > [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > > > And the Repubs knew that opposing this bill on bs gorunds would get them painted a America-hating monsters just as election season is starting up. Seems to me, the Democratic politicing worked much better. The Repubs could have passed this bill and gotten “we \ 9/11 first responders” and “we can work bipartisanly” points. Instead, the took and principleless stand and will get hammered for it in the press now and in millions of dollars worth of campaign ads for the next 4 months. > > Like I said, these kinds of bullshit tactics and PR is always happening. You can attribute such base motivations to most people in Congress. The real issue here is why did the opponents vote against it? Post #10, dude. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/31 "2010-08-02T00:38:40Z")
You tell me, **sleeping** : do you feel your summary of the bill was complete, factual, and neutral? ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/32 "2010-08-02T00:46:24Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > [@sleeping](#): > > > > Like I said, these kinds of bullshit tactics and PR is always happening. You can attribute such base motivations to most people in Congress. The real issue here is why did the opponents vote against it? > > Post #10, dude. > [@Bricker](#): > > You tell me, **sleeping** : do you feel your summary of the bill was complete, factual, and neutral? I think it was factual and neutral, yes. At the time, I was not aware of the amendment to preclude illegal immigrants from being covered by this, but it really doesn’t change my opinion. If that’s the sole reason for the opposition, then that means conservatives are willing to prevent 9/11 rescue workers and WTC-proximate residents from getting healthcare, just because some of them might be illegal immigrants–as if those victims do not deserve care. In other words, they are practicing sociopathy because the other side will not indulge their prejudices…a despicable position, no matter which way you look at it. ---
**Author:** ![bullrun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@bullrun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bullrun)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/33 "2010-08-02T00:49:12Z")
,Because…the left had attached a multitude of ride-ons that were hard for the conservatives to live with. They did it on purpose. Also…from the beginning vote…the libs had enough votes to pass the bill but kept denying pasage to try and give the conservatives a black-eye. All smoke and mirrors. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/34 "2010-08-02T00:52:14Z")
> [@bullrun](#): > > ,Because…the left had attached a multitude of ride-ons that were hard for the conservatives to live with. They did it on purpose. Also…from the beginning vote…the libs had enough votes to pass the bill but kept denying pasage to try and give the conservatives a black-eye. All smoke and mirrors. [Yo, **bullrun!** Over here!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=573011) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/35 "2010-08-02T00:52:49Z")
> [@sleeping](#): > > I think it was factual and neutral, yes. At the time, I was not aware of the amendment to preclude illegal immigrants from being covered by this, but it really doesn’t change my opinion. I quoted that from the New York Times article _you linked to in the OP_. > [@bullrun](#): > > ,Because…the left had attached a multitude of ride-ons that were hard for the conservatives to live with. They did it on purpose. Also…from the beginning vote…the libs had enough votes to pass the bill but kept denying pasage to try and give the conservatives a black-eye. All smoke and mirrors. _Riders_. They’re called riders. Ride-ons that the things kids scoot around on. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/36 "2010-08-02T00:52:50Z")
> [@sleeping](#): > > If that’s the sole reason for the opposition, then that means conservatives are willing to prevent 9/11 rescue workers and WTC-proximate residents from getting healthcare, just because some of them might be illegal immigrants …sure as it means the sole reason liberals are willing to prevent 9/11 rescue workers and WTC-proximate residents from getting healthcare is because they want to guarantee that illegal immigrants get money money money by the pound. AFAICT, this could get real ugly real quick. ---
**Author:** ![bullrun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@bullrun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bullrun)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/37 "2010-08-02T00:57:53Z")
What political dribble! The left had ample votes from the beginning to pass the bill . They kept changing the ‘numbers’ rules to make it even harder to pass so they could blame the republicans. Truth is …the right could never have stopped the bill. The left held it up. They then cried that the Republicans weren’t voting with them and cared nothing for the 911 workers. The truth is that the left added riders onto the bill that were hard for the republicans to stomach. They balked. They said…take off of few of these ridiculous add-ons and we will vote for helping the workers . The dems refused. Everything is politics to the left. If they had really wanted instant help for the 911 rescuers…the left would have submitted a clean bill that simply provided for the help…and it would have passed easily. ---
**Author:** ![bullrun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@bullrun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bullrun)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/38 "2010-08-02T01:00:17Z")
To Really not that Bright… …yes…something I am sure you opposed…lol ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/39 "2010-08-02T01:02:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > From the OP’s link: > > > [@](#): > > > > But Democrats were concerned that a simple majority vote would allow Republicans to propose a controversial amendment that seeks to deny 9/11 health benefits to illegal immigrants. That amendment threatened to fracture Democratic support for the original bill into two camps: moderates who might feel political pressure to deprive illegal immigrants of such benefits and liberals who flatly oppose the Republican amendment. > > Honestly, I can’t say I can see why that amendment would be so controversial. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > [@sleeping](#): > > > > I think it was factual and neutral, yes. At the time, I was not aware of the amendment to preclude illegal immigrants from being covered by this, but it really doesn’t change my opinion. > > I quoted that from the New York Times article _you linked to in the OP_. > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > > [@sleeping](#): > > > > If that’s the sole reason for the opposition, then that means conservatives are willing to prevent 9/11 rescue workers and WTC-proximate residents from getting healthcare, just because some of them might be illegal immigrants > > …sure as it means the sole reason liberals are willing to prevent 9/11 rescue workers and WTC-proximate residents from getting healthcare is because they want to guarantee that illegal immigrants get money money money by the pound. > > AFAICT, this could get real ugly real quick. Yeah, but: -the vote was on \*this \*form of the bill -as I stated just before this, I do not see the exclusion of illegal immigrants as justifiable, inherently or as a reason for voting against the bill ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/40 "2010-08-02T01:02:23Z")
[QUOTE=bullrun] To Really not that Bright… …yes…something I am sure you opposed…lol [/QUOTE] What the fuck are you gibbering about now? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816.md?page=3)