# Conservatives Overwhelmingly Oppose Healthcare for 9/11 Workers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 1, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816 "2010-08-01T20:05:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/161 "2010-08-03T15:07:23Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Any way you look at it it seems incredibly and obviously impractical to implement in real world terms. IMO that makes it bullshit and unnecessary. It’s not impractical. We do it all the time. If you get a job, you have to prove legal residence. If you want Medicaid, SCHIP, or TANF, you have to prove legal residence. In a lot of states, if you want a driver’s license, you have to prove legal residence. So it’s not like we don’t have experience implementing a proof of legal residence requirement, or that we have, in the past, considered that an unreasonable burden. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/162 "2010-08-03T15:17:21Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Neither of us has said it was a mission to save innocent Iraqi teenagers. That is how people of your ilk choose to phrase things in an effort to your opponents look silly. :rolleyes: What we are saying is that freeing millions of Iraq citizens from having to live with the attrocities committed by Hussein and his sons and having to live with the 24/7 fear that results is one of the reasons that the war has been worth the cost, both in terms of money and casualties. No one has said that freeing Iraqi citizens from Husein’s reign of terror is the sole reason for the war, but it’s certainly one of the reasons and it is for these reasons that ‘competent’ people can find both the war and its price tag reasonable and worthwhile. Revisionist bullshit. But it’s what I expect from you and your ilk who seek to paint this disastrous war of choice - based on a web of lies and jingoism - as some noble cause that has been proven noble because of all of the poor Iraqi’s that we saved … except, of course, for the ones who were scrambled in your retarded omelet of freedom. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/163 "2010-08-03T15:21:48Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > > [@Bricker](#): > > > > Now you do the math. Go ahead. First tell me how much each life murdered by Uday Hussein is owrth. Actually, let’s start even [easier: this 14-year-old girl.](http://www.mafhoum.com/press5/147P57.htm) How much money is it worth to prevent her attack? $10? $20? > > > > Tell me, and we can start counting from there. > > It’s your argument; you tell me what you think the facts are that support it. No, me bucko. 'Twas not me that said: > [@](#): > > Nobody competent could possibly have thought the benefits of regime change in Iraq were worth a dozen lost US aircraft, let alone 32,000 American casualties, uncountable numbers of Iraqi casualties and 736 billion dollars. That statement says it’s impossible to claim that the benefits of regime change are worth 736 billion dollars, plus lives lost. I say it _IS_ possible to claim that. For example, if I say the cost of a 14 year old girl being kidnapped and raped under color of the law, with the authority of the government, is $100 million, then we need only identify seven thousand such victims before we’ve covered the money part of the equation. > [@](#): > > And also: why are you saying that the bill is for “foreigners who worked in this country to clean up the World Trade Center site after 9/11?” That’s not what the law actually said, is it? It provided benefits to anyone who worked in the area of lower Manhattan, for a period of two years after the attack, for even one hour, selling hot dogs or painting tourist souveiners. > > So why did you make that claim about the law? One of the concerns that opponents cite about this bill is that it doesn’t specifically exclude illegal immigrants, which is the point I’m addressing. The broad scope of who is elligible is another, but that’s not what I’m getting at. [/quote] I’m sure you’d love to characterize the bill only in terms of “what you’re getting at.” But the fact of the matter is that the bill covers much more than "“foreigners who worked in this country to clean up the World Trade Center site after 9/11,” and when you claim that’s all it does, you create a materially false impression for the reader. The reader feels he must choose between excluding aliens and "“foreigners who worked in this country to clean up the World Trade Center site after 9/11.” But in fact, choosing the bill does much more than just that, and you know it, or should know it. > [@](#): > > Why I am trying to get at is this: Why is the U.S. government justified in helping some foreigners (via the Iraq War), and not others (as may be covered under this bill)? Because the U.S. government has no rule that says, “all persons must be helped equally.” I am sure your kindergarten teacher had such a rule, but the government does not. The government can permissibly choose to help the people of Iraq and not help sign-painters who worked in lower Manhattan for one day in 2003 without being fundamentally wrong. You of course may disagree that the government’s choice is the wisest one. But you cannot claim that their choice is evil, or so incompetent as to be absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/164 "2010-08-03T15:24:30Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > > [@Bricker](#): > > > > First tell me how much each life murdered by Uday Hussein is owrth. Actually, let’s start even [easier: this 14-year-old girl.](http://www.mafhoum.com/press5/147P57.htm) How much money is it worth to prevent her attack? $10? $20? > > > > Tell me, and we can start counting from there. > > The war in Iraq was in no way started because of anything Uday Hussein did and it had nothing to do with any 14 year old Iraqi girls. It was started because Saddam had WMDs in the areas north, south, east and west of Bahgdad and he was going to use them at any second. > > So spare us the goal-post-moving glurgy bullshit about how it was all a mercy mission to save the poor mistreated Iraqi teenagers. Hello, goalpost mover! How’s the job going? Good, I see. Original question: what was the cost- benefit breakdown associated with the Iraq war? New, stealth question, slipped in by Goalpost Movers 'R Us: Why was the war started? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/165 "2010-08-03T15:32:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Is an health screening not a benefit? No, since the purpose of the screening is to determine eligibility. > [@](#): > > Yes. And if a person dropped by to install an new sign in a candy store in Battery Park, two years after the attack, and spent an hour doing it, and happens for unrelated reasons to have asthma, he may claim benefits here. Yes? No. There is a Special Master and dozens of administrators who determine whether claimants’ conditions are 9/11 related. > [@](#): > > Even better. The jerk who worked an hour on the sign and has chronic asthma gets benefits, but the newspaper vendor who worked outside Building One and got a lungful of ash can’t… because he’s number 25,001 to qualify. > > Another reason to rework this bill. No more than 25,000 may be eligible _at any one time_. > [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > > It didn’t specifically grant benefits to illegals. It just didn’t specifically exclude them. > > I know, that’s why I used the third conditional. “If the law required all pregnancies to be aborted it would open up a real can of worms!” “The law doesn’t require that.” “I know!” ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/166 "2010-08-03T15:32:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Original question: what was the cost- benefit breakdown associated with the Iraq war? > > New, stealth question, slipped in by Goalpost Movers 'R Us: Why was the war started? Would we even need a cost-benefit breakdown associated with the Iraq war if the goddamned thing hadn’t been started in the first place? But never mind that. It’s much more fun to play with the dollar figures (that we pissed away and will never get back). ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/167 "2010-08-03T15:34:03Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > What we are saying is that freeing millions of Iraq citizens from having to live with the attrocities committed by Hussein and his sons and having to live with the 24/7 fear that results is one of the reasons that the war has been worth the cost, both in terms of money and casualties. If there were any illegal immigrants who worked at the WTC site, do they deserve to live without the 24/7 health consequences of working under toxic conditions? > [@](#): > > And **cosmosdan** , this is one of those occasions where unfortunately you have to break a few eggs in order to make an omelet. What about the legal workers at the WTC site, and the consequences they’ve suffered? If some fraction of the $7 billion is spent on illegals, just think of that as “break(ing) a few eggs”. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/168 "2010-08-03T15:52:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, me bucko. 'Twas not me that said: 'Twasn’t me who said that, either. > [@](#): > > But the fact of the matter is that the bill covers much more than "“foreigners who worked in this country to clean up the World Trade Center site after 9/11,” and when you claim that’s all it does, Never said that. > [@](#): > > You of course may disagree that the government’s choice is the wisest one. But you cannot claim that their choice is evil, or so incompetent as to be absurd. Never said that. > [@](#): > > I’m sure you’d love to characterize the bill only in terms of “what you’re getting at.” I’m not trying to characterize the bill, I’m trying to characterize my question to you and **Starving Artist** , since you seem not to have understood it. Maybe it would help if you went back and re-read my previous posts in this thread. There are only two of them. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/169 "2010-08-03T15:55:47Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist;12758683 You’ll And **cosmosdan** , this is one of those occasions where unfortunately you have to break a few eggs in order to make an omelet. Despite the casualties that have occurred to Iraqis because of the war, far fewer people died overall during the war than were dying or being killed by Hussein and his policies before the war, and millions and millions of Iraqi citizens now and in the future no longer have to live in fear of Hussein, his sons and his henchmen. We take casualties in every war because we know they’re necessary for the greater outcome, and the same holds true for the Iraqi citizens who’ve unfortuantely been killed or injured in the war. The deaths of thousands of Iraqis is the unfortunate price necessary to allow millions to live free of Hussein’s arbitrary and random reign of torture, rape, murder, intimidation and the constant, constant fear that its citizens had to live wth.[/QUOTE] That’s all a nice justification. There’s no doubt in my mind that Saddam and his sons were brutal and saddistic, but there are no real numbers to indicate “far fewer people died” because there’s no way to have accurate numbers. What we do have is[this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War) > [@](#): > > In December 2007, the Iraqi government reported that there were 5 million orphans in Iraq - nearly half of the country’s children.[300][301] Iraq’s health has deteriorated to a level not seen since the 1950s, said Joseph Chamie, former director of the U.N. Population Division and an Iraq specialist. “They were at the forefront”, he said, referring to health care just before the 1991 Persian Gulf War. "Now they’re looking more and more like a country in sub-Saharan Africa."Malnutrition rates have risen from 19% before the US-led invasion to a national average of 28% four years later. Some 60-70% of Iraqi children are suffering from psychological problems. 68% of Iraqis have no access to safe drinking water. A cholera outbreak in northern Iraq is thought to be the result of poor water quality. As many as half of Iraqi doctors have left the country since 2003. I understand the horrors of war for some greater good but that isn’t why we went there. Operation Iraqi freedom was the last rationalization and lie. Our history of interference in the middle east is dismal. Our goverment has served our economic interests not human rights. Hundreds of thousands of lives and almost a trillion dollars with no guarentee of long term stability unless we spend more to maintain a miliatary presence. The lies we are willing to swallow to mainain our lifestyle here at home will eventually cost us even more than they have so far. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/170 "2010-08-03T15:59:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Now you do the math. Go ahead. First tell me how much each life murdered by Uday Hussein is owrth. Actually, let’s start even [easier: this 14-year-old girl.](http://www.mafhoum.com/press5/147P57.htm) How much money is it worth to prevent her attack? $10? $20? Nice appeal to emotion counsellor. Of course as a lawyer, you’ll be familiar with the fact that corporations, governments and statasticians put a value on human life all the time. If she were an cute American girl, she’d be worth about 6.9 million dollars[according to the EPA](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25626294/) and other sources. If she was a cute little girl from Bhopal, $500 sounds [about right according to Union Carbide.](http://www.ndtv.com/news/india/care-for-bhopal-but-shareholders-priority-31063.php) Lets use a figure in between - 3.5 million dollars. do you think that the 2 Trillion dollar invasion “saved” over 560,000 lives? That is, do you think that there was a net “savings of lives” of 560,000 due to the invasion (of course, you will have to subtract the number of lives, both Iraqi and others lost due due to the invasion). ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/171 "2010-08-03T16:07:43Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Are you two actually defending spending $736 billion to improve the lives of Iraqis, in Iraq; while simultaneously decrying spending $7 billion, some fraction of which may or may not pay for medical care for foreigners who worked in this country to clean up the World Trade Center site after 9/11? > > Seriously? This is your post. You did say “some fraction,” and I apologize for missing that. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/172 "2010-08-03T16:10:06Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > > [@Bricker](#): > > > > Now you do the math. Go ahead. First tell me how much each life murdered by Uday Hussein is owrth. Actually, let’s start even [easier: this 14-year-old girl.](http://www.mafhoum.com/press5/147P57.htm) How much money is it worth to prevent her attack? $10? $20? > > Nice appeal to emotion counsellor. > > Of course as a lawyer, you’ll be familiar with the fact that corporations, governments and statasticians put a value on human life all the time. > > If she were an cute American girl, she’d be worth about 6.9 million dollars[according to the EPA](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25626294/) and other sources. > > If she was a cute little girl from Bhopal, $500 sounds [about right according to Union Carbide.](http://www.ndtv.com/news/india/care-for-bhopal-but-shareholders-priority-31063.php) > Lets use a figure in between - 3.5 million dollars. do you think that the 2 Trillion dollar invasion “saved” over 560,000 lives? That is, do you think that there was a net “savings of lives” of 560,000 due to the invasion (of course, you will have to subtract the number of lives, both Iraqi and others lost due due to the invasion). Why is Union Carbide’s number particularly persuasive in this context? Did Union Carbide officials plan the Iraq War? And why is the EPA’s? That’s a generic life, not a life punctuated by rape and kidnapping. And why should I accept the EPA’s number anyway? Did EPA officials plan the Iraq War? And if I reject both the EPA’s and Union Carbide’s, then obviously I reject yours, which merely strikes a halfway position between them. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/173 "2010-08-03T16:16:05Z")
I believe we can all see the broken eggs. And we will see the omelet…when, exactly? When Iraq oil revenues pay for the reconstruction? When that promised statue of Bush appears in downtown Baghdad? When hundreds of thousand of Iraqis march in gleeful unity to express their abiding love of the USA? Well, maybe that’s just Iraqi culture, to restrain gestures of gratitude, don’t want to overdo it. We were led by fools and scoundrels into a ruinously expensive, needless, and futile war. We’ve been had. Buggered with great enthusiasm. When I think of all the good and worthy things we might have done with the money, I am reminded of Lincoln’s story about the little boy who stubbed his toe in the dark, and announced that he was too old to cry, but it hurt too much to laugh. As for all the lives wasted…no, can’t do it, there is a limit to obscenity. no curse is adequate to the task. I have no mouth, and I must scream. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/174 "2010-08-03T16:16:17Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Why is Union Carbide’s number particularly persuasive in this context? Did Union Carbide officials plan the Iraq War? Did anyone planning the Iraq War claim to be doing it for 14-year-old rape victims? ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/175 "2010-08-03T16:17:23Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > > [@cosmosdan](#): > > > > Any way you look at it it seems incredibly and obviously impractical to implement in real world terms. IMO that makes it bullshit and unnecessary. > > It’s not impractical. We do it all the time. If you get a job, you have to prove legal residence. If you want Medicaid, SCHIP, or TANF, you have to prove legal residence. In a lot of states, if you want a driver’s license, you have to prove legal residence. So it’s not like we don’t have experience implementing a proof of legal residence requirement, or that we have, in the past, considered that an unreasonable burden. OKay, point taken. There would still be a cost associated with that processing but I can’t claim any numbers to show it’s not financially worthwhile. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/176 "2010-08-03T16:24:48Z")
I can see the question ‘What would Jesus Do’ isn’t popping into the head of either the Republicans or the self-professed ‘Christian’ (but aren’t in any meaningful sense) conservatives on this board. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/177 "2010-08-03T16:40:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And if I reject both the EPA’s and Union Carbide’s, then obviously I reject yours, which merely strikes a halfway position between them. Well now that we’ve established what you are, I guess all that is left is to haggle over your price. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/178 "2010-08-03T16:43:59Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > I can see the question ‘What would Jesus Do’ isn’t popping into the head of either the Republicans or the self-professed ‘Christian’ (but aren’t in any meaningful sense) conservatives on this board. I would have thought that was self-evident. You know, given that none of them have died for our sins. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/179 "2010-08-03T17:00:09Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > [@Bricker](#): > > > > Why is Union Carbide’s number particularly persuasive in this context? Did Union Carbide officials plan the Iraq War? > > Did anyone planning the Iraq War claim to be doing it for 14-year-old rape victims? Yes, at least if you generally mean “Did anyone consider the benefits of deposing a murderous dictator?” It’s true that the immediate necessity was the WMD, but the human benefit of getting rid of Saddam was certainly a factor. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816/180 "2010-08-03T17:09:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It’s true that the immediate necessity was the WMD, but the human benefit of getting rid of Saddam was certainly a factor. The human benefit was particularly important after the “immediate necessity” turned out to be a stinking load of donkey cobblers. So how much is a cute 14 year old Iraqi life worth counsellor? I’m sure you’re familiar enough with the calculations. You’ll have to balance it against the lives lost due to the invasion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-overwhelmingly-oppose-healthcare-for-9-11-workers/548816.md?page=10)