# Conservatives rally behind Santorum **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 16, 2012, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-rally-behind-santorum/609651 "2012-01-16T02:13:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-rally-behind-santorum/609651/41 "2012-01-17T04:02:14Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > The secret is to get the divorces out of the way first,\* then convert\*. I have kind of wondered about that. Did the Catholic Church have an issue with him being twice divorced? Or did they just not recognize those previous marriages since they presumably took place in Protestant churches? ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-rally-behind-santorum/609651/42 "2012-01-17T04:12:32Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Tomato, to-mah-to > > There has been so much cross pollination that evangelical=conservative. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I did not say conservative=evangelical… But you did Blanche, you did. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > …but frankly wtf is the difference between a pro life catholic that hates the ghey and a pro life Jew that hates the ghey This illustrates what you are missing. The problem is that Romney is a Mormon and as far as they are concerned that means he isn’t a true Christian. A Catholic wouldn’t be their first choice but they will gladly take one over a Mormon. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-rally-behind-santorum/609651/43 "2012-01-17T04:18:13Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I don’t think that “their stance” (meaning, in general) is either venomous or necessarily racist. I think their stance would be the same if Mexicans were poor, low skilled, non-English speaking white people. > > I can’t see why it would be “venomous” to want to enforce immigration laws. I think that their stance is venomous but let’s call that just my opinion. I think the rhetoric that is embraced by conservatives on immigration is laced with at least mild racism. The arguments about wanting to enforce immigration laws is just one in a long list of conservative stalking horses. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-rally-behind-santorum/609651/44 "2012-01-17T05:46:09Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > I have kind of wondered about that. Did the Catholic Church have an issue with him being twice divorced? Or did they just not recognize those previous marriages since they presumably took place in Protestant churches? The Church considers a marriage between a baptized man and a baptized woman to be valid if it was entered into in accordance with civil law even if the parties are not Catholic and even if the marriage was not performed in a Catholic Church. The marriage is considered valid until either one of the spouses dies or the Church issues a Decree of Nullity (annulment). Newt filed for a Catholic Decree of Nullity on his second marriage in 2002. The grounds were that his wife had been previously married and divorced and, hence, that marriage was never valid. I can find no clear evidence of an annulment of the first marriage, but it is believed that he had to have had one in order to enter the Church. If he hadn’t received an annulment, his relationship with his third wife would be considered adultery and he would be ineligible to receive the sacraments. You may want to read this: [Communion of Divorced and Remarried](http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/communion_of_divorced_and_remarr.htm). Particularly, note the last paragraph. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-rally-behind-santorum/609651/45 "2012-01-17T14:17:12Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The arguments about wanting to enforce immigration laws is just one in a long list of conservative stalking horses. I know what you mean! It’s just like when liberals say they want to help the downtrodden, when really they just want to control people’s lives. Don’t you hate it when people do that? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-rally-behind-santorum/609651/46 "2012-01-17T15:03:13Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I know what you mean! It’s just like when liberals say they want to help the downtrodden, when really they just want to control people’s lives. Don’t you hate it when people do that? I know you want to believe that your fellow travelers are simply misunderstood but are you seriously saying that there is no tinge of racism coming from the right on the immigration debate? If you don’t want to be associated with racism, then perhaps you should reconsider who you associate yourself with. The fact of the matter is that the conservative wing of the Republican party is a coalition of social conservatives (pro-life, anti-gay, slightly racist) and fiscal conservatives (cut taxes, rewrite two centuries of legal interpretation of the constitution, and if we can get small government and less spending out of it, then they’ll take that too) who have been drinking each others cool aid for the last 30 years. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-rally-behind-santorum/609651/47 "2012-01-17T15:13:01Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I know you want to believe that your fellow travelers are simply misunderstood but are you seriously saying that there is no tinge of racism coming from the right on the immigration debate? They’re not my fellow travelers, and I’m sure some of them are racists. I just find no value in casting a pall of racism over an amorphous group in a debate like this. It is neither provable nor unprovable. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-rally-behind-santorum/609651/48 "2012-01-17T15:32:40Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > They’re not my fellow travelers, and I’m sure some of them are racists. I just find no value in casting a pall of racism over an amorphous group in a debate like this. It is neither provable nor unprovable. Of course they’re not your fellow travelers, you just happen to agree on a whole slate of issues and you rush to their defense when someone calls them slightly racist. “slightly racist” was one of a dozen descriptors I used to describe modern conservatives. It informs their position on all sorts of policy issues. You remove a few of those descriptors and they stop being the modern day conservatives and start becoming a subset of the modern day conservatives. For what its worth, I don’t think you fit into the definition I provided. I don’t think you are probably less racist than I am (I try not to be racist but sometimes I have to make a conscious effort), I don’t think you are particularly religious (I am probably more religious than you are), I don’t think you think that fiscal discipline begins and ends with low taxes BUT a general description of the conservatives fairly includes social conservatism which you seem to describe as evangelical. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-rally-behind-santorum/609651/49 "2012-01-19T14:42:52Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > But you did Blanche, you did. No he did not say ‘all conservatives are evangelicals’. Logically and quite obviously the statement that ‘all evangelicals are conservatives’ is NOT the same as ‘all conservatives are evangelicals’. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-rally-behind-santorum/609651/50 "2012-01-19T16:31:26Z")
C’mon, Jesus, make up your mind! Both feet, one big nail, two smaller nails, one for each foot. Gimmee a break, its Friday, I want to get out of here… ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-rally-behind-santorum/609651/51 "2012-01-19T17:07:01Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > No he did not say ‘all conservatives are evangelicals’. > > Logically and quite obviously the statement that ‘all evangelicals are conservatives’ is NOT the same as ‘all conservatives are evangelicals’. I see your point. However, I would consider either statement to be inaccurate. Being an evangelical is not the same as being a political conservative. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-rally-behind-santorum/609651/52 "2012-01-19T18:33:24Z")
I will repeat. When we talk about evangelicals in the political sense we are talking about conservatives. As Oakminster pointed out, there are black evangelical churches out there but in a political discussion, they are not who we are referring to when we say “evangelicals” ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-rally-behind-santorum/609651/53 "2012-01-20T06:28:17Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I will repeat. When we talk about evangelicals in the political sense we are talking about conservatives. When _you_ talk about evangelicals in the political sense _you_ are talking about conservatives. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > OK, I see what happened. I meant that all evangelicals are conservatives even if not all conservatives are evangelicals. You still have it wrong. Neither Jimmy Carter or Tony Campolo are conservatives but they would self-identify as evangelicals. They both have been politically active. Just because the common perception is that being an evangelical automatically makes you a conservative doesn’t make it accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-rally-behind-santorum/609651/54 "2012-01-20T12:37:04Z")
Wiki article on the [Evangelical Left](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelical_left). And an article on [Liberal Evangelicalism](http://www.mb-soft.com/believe/text/libevang.htm). ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-rally-behind-santorum/609651/55 "2012-01-20T15:40:48Z")
Finally! A coherent thread that stays on point. I’ve been waiting ten years to see this! ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-rally-behind-santorum/609651/56 "2012-01-20T18:36:15Z")
[What slight racism might sound like.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbud8rLejLM) ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-rally-behind-santorum/609651/57 "2012-01-21T01:12:35Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Evangelicals supporting a Roman Catholic? This does not compute. > > Once upon a time all I needed to deter the “Have you been saved?” crowd was to say, “Sorry, I’m Catholic.” It was as if I’d sprinkled them with Holy Water. “Mormon” would’ve sent them to the hills. I find it unusual too but if things go like it looks like they may in South Carolina the Christian Right voters are ignoring the conclave in Texas and going to give a win to Gingrich, the former Protestant turned Catholic. It looks more and more like the anointing of Santorum didn’t really do much good. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-rally-behind-santorum/609651/58 "2012-01-21T02:05:45Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > It looks more and more like the anointing of Santorum… Well, that’s a horrible mental image. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-rally-behind-santorum/609651/59 "2012-01-21T21:06:03Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > When _you_ talk about evangelicals in the political sense _you_ are talking about conservatives. > You still have it wrong. Neither Jimmy Carter or Tony Campolo are conservatives but they would self-identify as evangelicals. They both have been politically active. Just because the common perception is that being an evangelical automatically makes you a conservative doesn’t make it accurate. So when people talk about candidates going after the evangelical vote, they are talking about Jimmy Carter’s voter base? It doesn’t matter that Jimmy Carter was a self identified evangelical in 1976, he would not be competitive for the evangelical vote today. There has been such a merger if conservative ideas into the evangelical ideology that evangelical=conservative. I don’t see how anyone could argue otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Batfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Batfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batfish)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-rally-behind-santorum/609651/60 "2012-01-21T21:21:07Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > When _you_ talk about evangelicals in the political sense _you_ are talking about conservatives. > You still have it wrong. Neither Jimmy Carter or Tony Campolo are conservatives but they would self-identify as evangelicals. They both have been politically active. Just because the common perception is that being an evangelical automatically makes you a conservative doesn’t make it accurate. _Waits for the evangelicals to convene a convention to determine who to support in the Democratic primary…_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-rally-behind-santorum/609651.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-rally-behind-santorum/609651.md?page=4)