# Conservatives say Dean is unelectable. I say they're afraid of him. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 6, 2004, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024 "2004-01-06T15:57:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/21 "2004-01-06T17:35:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Debaser \* > **Do you guys seriously think that there is some sort of conservative groupthink nationwide strategy at work in the US today? Do you have any proof for this outragious claim?** Do you have any proof that I made such a claim? Didn’t think so. To clarify, just in case others are leaping over logic to the conclusion **Debaser** made, my comment about conservative talk show hosts and pundits was very simple. Every example of such that I’ve heard recently, from those with nationwide audiences (Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, the above-quoted Bill O’Reilly, etc.) to those with only local appeal (Seattle’s [Brian “No Baloney” Maloney](http://www.kiro710.com/show_details.jsp?iShowId=24126), for example), are all parroting pretty much the same line. Do I think this is a “Groupthink” phenomenon? No, and I didn’t say so. I do, however, think that these folks have picked up on a clever tactic and are running with it. A little reverse psychology, a little paranoia, a little snake-oil. I don’t know who started it, but that doesn’t matter. It’s spreading fast. I’m thinking it’s probably just the flavor of the month for these guys, but if they really believe everything they’re saying, then it only speaks to their own ignorance. To sum up: not “Groupthink”… just one pundit picking up on the ideas of another, _ad nauseam_. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/22 "2004-01-06T17:37:31Z")
It sounds like a sizable chunk of GOP/conservative pundits would, in fact, be pleased if Dean won the nomination. That doesn’t mean he’ll be immune to pre-convention attacks to chop him down to size (normal operating procedure). Kerry and Clark have had some of this treatment already, when it looked more hopeful for their campaigns. If Dean is nominated and if you use the traditional standard of 55% of the vote as a “landslide”, then yes, I think GWB will win in a landslide. Not a happy prospect. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/23 "2004-01-06T17:47:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Avalonian \* > Thanks for proving my point. That’s a schtick I’ve heard too often lately. My comments don’t prove your point. They would prove your point if they were motivated by a fear of a Dean candidacy, but since my comments were motivated by a honest desire to see Dean as the Democratic nominee, based on my conviction that he’s quite unlikely to beat Bush, they in fact refute your point. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/24 "2004-01-06T17:47:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Who are they? The OP mentions “every conservative talk show host or pundit” Stoli refers to “the conservatives who have power in the media”. > > Do you guys seriously think that there is some sort of conservative groupthink nationwide strategy at work in the US today? Do you have any proof for this outragious claim? > > At the very least, do tell us who the participants are in this vast conspiracy. I’m curious. I thought I’d have trouble with that phrasing on preview. I am in no way alleging that the media is conservative. But there are conservatives who are powerful in the media. These people seem to be moving in lockstep against Dean. Examples I’ve personally heard: Hannity, O’Reilly, Savage. There is certainly strategy behind all of their actions, as there is behind any politically influenced speech. I’m not saying they’re getting shortwave broadcasts from the RNC telling them to torpedo Dean, but their interests are in line with each other on this issue. Don’t take this as a political salvo. I am genuinely curious as to why Republican mouthpieces would attack Dean pre-primary if they actually want him to be the Democratic condidate. If someone can provide a reasonable reason, I’d be happy to hear it. From my perception, all Dem candidates are weak v. Bush at this time. It seems unusual to give Dean all of the negative attention, unless the intent is to rally Dem support behind him simply b/c the right hates him. Which is entirely possible, but seems convoluted. ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/25 "2004-01-06T17:52:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > \*\*Nice little try at a spin, there, Avalonian, in the “anything bad that you say about Dean means you’re scared of him” stuff. You would probably have better luck with a better candidate. \*\* No, you’re hedging the issue. My point is that I see very few of the conservative pundits (including you) making valid criticisms of Dean. Rather, they opt for broad insults and meaningless labels. There are certainly valid criticisms of Dean to be made (none of which make him a bad candidate, in my book), but y’all focus on the fluff instead. I look at it this way: there were many in the 2000 campaign that called Bush an idiot and a fool and said he’d never get elected. I was not one of them. Though Bush is lacking in many other departments, I saw (and still see) that he is very smart poltically, and is possessed of a certain frat-boy charm. I don’t personally find it appealing, but obviously, many do. I _hoped_ he wouldn’t get elected, but I never said he _couldn’t_ be. The Dean critics (like yourself) are making the same mistake as many liberals made in 2000. You’re criticising a Dean that doesn’t exist, and missing the boat on the one that does. Your loss. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > **Please cite anywhere where I said Dean is “unelectable”. He should not be elected, as he is another liberal idiot, but this is different from cannot be elected.** Well, “liberal idiot” is a good example of what I’m saying. Also, this: > [@](#): > > **Dean is another fuzzy-headed, weak-tea liberal with big talk, no experience, a fatuously ill-informed approach to world politics, and the conviction that if he could just get a hold of my paycheck, the federal government can make it all better.** Are you saying such a person (if they existed) _could_ be elected? > [@](#): > > \*\*Dean could win and Bush could lose. But they won’t. \*\* Yeah, nice distinction. Try again. > [@](#): > > **But I guess we will see, won’t we?** Yep. Very observant of you. ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/26 "2004-01-06T17:55:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bricker \* > \*\*My comments don’t prove your point. > > They would prove your point if they were motivated by a fear of a Dean candidacy, but since my comments were motivated by a honest desire to see Dean as the Democratic nominee, based on my conviction that he’s quite unlikely to beat Bush, they in fact refute your point.\*\* Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/27 "2004-01-06T18:02:35Z")
A while ago I posted a link which I am too lazy to go searching for. But the upshot: it was an article about a year before the Clinton/Bush election, to the effect that the hick Governor had no chance against the War Hero Prez, the Dems were in disarray after a brutal internecine primary campaign, yadda blah yadda blah. A few months ago, Dean was the favorite candidate of the RNC. But that has changed, and changed drasticly. First, the “grass roots” effect. The Dean campaign has energized a portion of the Apathy Party, long the single most dominant force in our politics. Just like mcGovern, young college types are enthused. But with McGovern, it was easy for the Forces of Darkness to portray them as wildly radical hippy types, hitting America right square in the prejudices. Not this time. As well, the fundraising. A massive fundraising from small individual donor is a terrifying spectacle for Mr. Rove. You can bet your bippy that everybody who sent Dean $20 is going to vote for him, is going to get off his butt and _go_ to the polls, and take two or three friends with them. And the “get off yer butt” factor is crucial, IMO (I won’t add “humble”, you guys know me better than that…) The Troglodyte Right: These are the people that make the honest conservatives cringe with dismay, the Apocalyptic nutbars whose theology is mixture of Cotton Mather and Stephen King. The FoD have had them in thier pockets for years, and they have a very strong “off yer butt” factor: they are motivated, even fanatical. But the FoD has been unable to deliver. They want and demand a return to the Golden Age of OzzienHarriet, picket fences, and freshly scrubbed children without any illicit thoughts. But no political party can turn back the clock, social change has happened. The FoD has been keeping them in line with promises, soon, they say, soon. But it never happens. It is hard to claim that the dastardly liberals are thwarting God’s Will when you have all the reins of power and still can’t deliver. The Patriots: A major bastion of FoD strength, but eroding. These are people who are instinctively uncomfortable with criticizing a “wartime President”. The FoD have squeezed every last drop out of this, wrapping themselves in Old Glory at every opportunity, hinting darkly at the disloyalty of, well, me. They are, by and large, working class folks. It is _thier_ children in harms way, thier spouses, thier friends, who aren’t coming home bathed in glory as promised. They aren’t even coming home, in far too many cases. As of now, I think they’re still largely on board, they are loathe to voice an opinion that could be unconsidered as not “supporting our troops”. But doubt is creeping in. At the diner, at the beauty shop, at the workplace, there is somebody who’s respectability is impeccable, who has a child or a spouse or a friend serving, and who is voicing his doubt. This makes such thoughts _respectable_, you can’t trump thier _bona fides_ with slurs to thier patriotism, they are most definitely “supporting our troops”, but they don’t support GeeDubya with the same enthusiasm as they did. Erosion. This is precisely why GeeDub is so desperate to turn over Iraq to _anybody_, right now, at once. He cravenly needs those soldiers returning in time for the Support Our President and Re-Elect Our Troops Rally, so that he can bask in thier glory. Is Dean electable? Yes, but barely. I would still prefer a more attractive candidate, perhaps Clark. And then, of course, there is the money. Towers of money, mountains of money, enough to buy hours and hours of insinuations and innuendos. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if all that money was for naught? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/28 "2004-01-06T18:23:51Z")
Add me to the list of the "don’t throw me in that there briar patch, B’rer Fox"ers. Dean is against a war that Americans support by a 3-2 margin. By landslide numbers. Bush has a near-60% approval rating as the economy _still_ continues to grow, and as the fighting in Iraq slows down to a halt. Over the course of 2004, the U.S. will pull troops out (by the schedule already set), leaving Dr. Dean to fulminate about how he is against a war that everyone else supports and that is pretty much over. There may be record levels of anger among Democrats, but what you’ve got is “more-pissed-off Democrats” rather than “_more_ pissed off Democrats”. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/29 "2004-01-06T18:30:14Z")
How does any of that make them afraid of him? **elucidator** has already guessed that sometime after the next inauguration it will be discovered that Republicans were funneling money to the Dean campaign. That may be going a bit far, but I’ll bet that Bush, Rove, and the like are coming in their pants over Dean getting the nomination. Dean is a big fucking Nothing. Kind of like Al Gore, but at least Gore had the incumbent inertia that give his Nothing a chance of being elected. If Dean becomes the Democratic Presidential nominee, and I’m not sure that can be prevented short of accidental death, Bush will win\*. And the world will be in for another four years of this insanity. Someone who thinks that the Republicans are afraid of Dean is just in the land of wishful thinking. -Joe, who will be proven right in ten months, unfortunately \*Barring something huge like Dubya being caught sodomizing young boys on live TV, of course. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/30 "2004-01-06T18:43:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Dean is against a war that Americans support by a 3-2 margin. By landslide numbers. Do you Support Our President and Our Troops, or are you a craven, unpatriotic coward? Ask the right question, you get the right answer. And yes, the economy appears to be stirring. At least, for the investor class, the Wall Street numbers are going up. But the unemployment numbers are only less dismal, not rosy. To dramaticly impact employment numbers in time to matter, the economy doesn’t need to _improve_, it needs to take off like a skyrocket bat out of Hell, zoom! to the moon! We’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/31 "2004-01-06T18:44:05Z")
**Elucidator** : I would be glad to say that you spin an intersting tale if it was, in fact, intersting. I honestly can’t tell what the hell you’re talking about, where you get the statistics to back up your ideas\*, and what an “FoD” is. I do remember the Clinton link, though, and just about the only thing missing to make the parallel complete would be Saddam still in power (oops, that’s not gonna happen) and an economy that tanks (possible, but unlikely). \*giving you the benefit of the doubt (BotD) by using that word ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/32 "2004-01-06T18:50:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by stolichnaya \* > \*\*I am genuinely curious as to why Republican mouthpieces would attack Dean pre-primary if they actually want him to be the Democratic condidate. If someone can provide a reasonable reason, I’d be happy to hear it. \*\* To depress his fundraising ability. And to diminish the enthusiasm of his grass-roots support. (Not enough to prevent him from getting the Democratic nomination, mind you. Just enough to dampen his momentum emerging from the nomination process.) ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/33 "2004-01-06T18:57:03Z")
Not going to jump into the middle of the various rants going on. Just going to answer the OP from my perspective. I think that hard line conservatives (what 'luci fondly refers to as “The Troglodyte Right” and what I think of as the Dinosaur Republicans) ARE in fact afraid of Dean. Mostly because his policies are a direct threat to them should he be elected, and it scares them to death. However, the more moderate Republicans I think are quite pleased (atm) about the prospects of Dean running against Bush because they don’t really don’t think Dean matches up well against Bush in a general election…and neither do I. I think someone like Liberman or Kerry are more of a threat in a general election against Bush than Dean is, simply because Dean does not appeal to the middle at all and they both do…especially Liberman IMO. I know several people (myself included) who absolutely will not vote for Dean, even to the point of voting for Bush if Dean runs against him…though they can’t stand Bush either. Lesser of two evils from their perspective. From my own, nothing will make me vote Bush, but if Dean runs then I’ll probably vote some third party alternative. Time will tell, but IMO, Dean will lose to Bush unless something radically changes in America in the next few months. Thats a far cry of course from saying that Dean is ‘unelectable’ of course, but I don’t see his chances against Bush as being very good. -XT ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/34 "2004-01-06T18:59:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > Do you Support Our President and Our Troops, **or are you a craven, unpatriotic coward?** > > Ask the right question, you get the right answer. (my bolding) Make up crap and you can prove anything. But if you look at [actual poll questions,](http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm) you’ll see that you are incorrect. For example: > [@](#): > > “Looking back, do you think the United States did the right thing in taking military action against Iraq, or should the U.S. have stayed out?” > **Did right thing: 62% > Dec '03** > [@](#): > > more from 'luci: > And yes, the economy appears to be stirring. At least, for the investor class, the Wall Street numbers are going up. But the unemployment numbers are only less dismal, not rosy. To dramaticly impact employment numbers in time to matter, the economy doesn’t need to _improve_, it needs to take off like a skyrocket bat out of Hell, zoom! to the moon! Umm, like 8.2% GDP growth? Zoom-zoom! Once again I guess you need to be reminded that 6% unemployment is just about average for the last 20 yrs. I guess it’s been “dismal” all that time, right? > [@](#): > > We’ll see. Got that one right. One out of three ain’t bad! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/35 "2004-01-06T19:09:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\*Do you Support Our President and Our Troops, or are you a craven, unpatriotic coward? > > Ask the right question, you get the right answer. The specific question, [is “Are you more likely to vote for a presidential candidate who supported going to war with Iraq, or for a candidate who opposed going to war with Iraq?”](http://www.pollingreport.com/wh2004.htm) Seems pretty damned straight-forward to me. I realize that all your friends might be saying, “Oh, man, no, dude, that war was a bigger drag than anything we did against the WTO, dude”, but that doesn’t mean the country agrees. > [@](#): > > And yes, the economy appears to be stirring. At least, for the investor class, the Wall Street numbers are going up. But the unemployment numbers are only less dismal, not rosy. To dramaticly impact employment numbers in time to matter, the economy doesn’t need to _improve_, it needs to take off like a skyrocket bat out of Hell, zoom! to the moon! > > We’ll see. Ah, yes, the “investor class”, made up of fat cats who light their stogies with penny-ante stocks while plotting the doom of the benighted poor in this country. Or, it could be that a majority of Americans own stock in some form, and Wall Street numbers going up means good tiding for a majority of Americans, not some elitist circle that hasn’t existed in years. You can talk up unemployment all you want- even all of the jobs lost affect less than 5% of Americans. The stock market, inflation, economic growth- all of those things affect a great many more, and with 91% consumer confidence and an over 50% approval rating for Bush’s handling of the economy, the Democrats are going to have to secretly pray for a nose-dive to get any traction whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/36 "2004-01-06T19:15:58Z")
Personally I’d agree with the idea that conservatives think that Dean is unelectable and I think that that will be a great boon on election day. Because the main thing that that does is depress turnout among conservatives. So, this is one arguement where I will just agree to dissagree. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/37 "2004-01-06T19:27:24Z")
Perhaps. Perhaps not. Predicting the American electorate is like predicting the moods of a diva with PMS and bi-polar disorder. In a nutshell: the vast majority of Americans belong to the Apathy Party, they don’t vote. Dean is energizing a segment of that vote: as I said, everybody who sent him $20 will vote for him, you can bet on that. Sure, its an uphill struggle. Especially when the other side has a gazillion bucks at its disposal and can shamelessly exploit its “patriotism”. But there is hope. I like hope. (PS: FoD is “Forces of Darkness” Referenced in first sentence. Naturally, I am deeply hurt by your contempt for my “ideas”. Alas, once again I shall have to cry myself to sleep clutching my banky! So it goes…) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/38 "2004-01-06T19:44:04Z")
PS to **John C.** > [@](#): > > …I realize that all your friends might be saying, “Oh, man, no, dude, that war was a bigger drag than anything we did against the WTO, dude”, but that doesn’t mean the country agrees… This kind of characterization ought to be beneath you. Work on it, won’t you? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/39 "2004-01-06T19:44:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > In a nutshell: the vast majority of Americans belong to the Apathy Party, they don’t vote. Dean is energizing a segment of that vote: as I said, everybody who sent him $20 will vote for him, you can bet on that. I dunno. I’ve given hookers more than $20 and failed to call them later. Do you actually have data showing that these “energized” people are those who would not normally vote? Seriously. I’ve never seen this anywhere. > [@](#): > > Sure, its an uphill struggle. Especially when the other side has a gazillion bucks at its disposal and can shamelessly exploit its “patriotism”. But there is hope. I like hope. We all like hope. It’s just that some of us actually use facts to formulate our opinions. Try it sometime. You might find a refreshing reduction in that amount of cognitive dissonance you experience.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/40 "2004-01-06T20:10:05Z")
Said before, say again: I have yet to meet a cynic who didn’t regard himself as a hard-headed realist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024.md?page=3)