# Conservatives say Dean is unelectable. I say they're afraid of him. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 6, 2004, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024 "2004-01-06T15:57:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/141 "2004-01-10T15:05:59Z")
I don’t have a cite – yet – but Dean is into NASCAR now. Yes, _that_ NASCAR. I don’t think the Dean equation is as simple as some think. He’s not the out-of-touch lefty some portray him as. OTOH, he’s not Bubba Clinton. Dean needs to come to the South as soon as possible. His tactics are garnering more laughs than applause at this point. His statements concerning the South on the record, so far, should provide Bush & Co. plenty of ammo for the general election. Dean has developed foot-in-mouth disease lately on other issues as well. “Capture of Saddam makes us no safer”? Um, but the day before that you… ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/142 "2004-01-10T15:18:40Z")
[Here’s a handy guide to help you out,](http://www.snoozebuttondreams.com/archives/006338.html) Howie. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/143 "2004-01-10T19:13:45Z")
NASCAR, now? Is Dean really that stupid, or is he hoping the South is that stupid? This is the moral equivalent of the Dukakis gopher head popping up out of the tank. It sounds more and more like Dean is getting desperate. Is Clark breathing down his neck that badly? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/144 "2004-01-10T20:15:00Z")
> [@](#): > > “Capture of Saddam makes us no safer”? Cite that it _has_ made us safer? The inbred, hillbilly, toothless, redneck fundie vote will go to Bush, regardless. Dean needs to focus on the more swayable elements in the bigger southern cities and college towns. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/145 "2004-01-10T20:36:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > \*\*Do you see something in there that isn’t 1) completely obvious and 2) completely nonoffensive to the average voter? > > Daniel \*\* Well, considering how upset you seem to get when I point out how out of touch the lefties on the SDMB are, you may not be the best judge of what is offensive to “the average voter”. \*\* [/QUOTE] 1. Let’s not dissemble. It’s not what you “point out” that pisses me off; it’s your patronizing contempt for folks with whom you’re engaging in serious discussion that pisses me off. I can disagree with someone and still treat them with respect; were you capable of doing so, I wouldn’t scold you for your petty sneering. 2. Maybe, just maybe, I know I’m not the best judge of what’s offensive to the average voter. **Maybe that’s why I freakin’ asked**. So do YOU see something there that isn’t completely obvious? Do YOU see something there that you think the average voter would find offensive? Or would you prefer to dodge the question by subtle ad hominems? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/146 "2004-01-10T20:41:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*The inbred, hillbilly, toothless, redneck fundie vote \*\* **Diogenes** , while I’m usually foursquare in your corner on the issues, at least, this made me cringe. There really are reasons that the conservative jibe of “liberal elite” has teeth, and the above rant is one of them. Can we please tone down the ad hominems on people that aren’t even on this board? Please? I know quite a few NASCAR fans who aren’t any of the above. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/147 "2004-01-10T20:47:35Z")
I agree with **jayjay** on this, **Dio** : you REALLY need to get over your hatred of the South. And help some fellow Yankees get over theirs: it’s not fun being treated with contempt by your allies. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/148 "2004-01-10T20:48:32Z")
> [@](#): > > I know quite a few NASCAR fans who aren’t any of the above. I didn’t say they were. I didn’t say that _all_ southerners were like that (and I am originally from Louisiana), just that the ones who _are_ will vote for Bush. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/149 "2004-01-10T20:55:41Z")
That doesn’t help much. Calling all the people who may vote for Bush redneck toothless inbred hillbillies is pretty much the definition of elitist. Political disagreement does not translate into superior/inferior or excuse stereotyping. From either side. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/150 "2004-01-10T20:55:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Left Hand of Dorkness \* > \*\*I agree with **jayjay** on this, **Dio** : you REALLY need to get over your hatred of the South. And help some fellow Yankees get over theirs: it’s not fun being treated with contempt by your allies. > > Daniel \*\* It wasn’t a swipe at the south, just at rednecks. There are plenty of them up here as well, especially over the border in Wisconsin. I’m sorry for any offense. All I meant to say was that the Bubbas are going to vote for Bush no matter what Dean says, so Dean might as well focus on the southern demographics that are actually in play, like minorities and the younger vote. Once again, I am _from_ the south. I have relatives who _are_ the sterotypical rednecks. My vitriol comes from a long acquaintance with real people. I’m sorry I overstated it or that I seemed to be generalizing about the south. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/151 "2004-01-10T20:57:51Z")
Or maybe I just get tired of arguing against the “liberal elite” charge and then turning around and finding some of the most outspoken liberal posters painting their opposition as uneducated hicks who shtup their cousins. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/152 "2004-01-10T20:58:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jayjay \* > \*\*That doesn’t help much. Calling all the people who may vote for Bush redneck toothless inbred hillbillies is pretty much the definition of elitist. Political disagreement does not translate into superior/inferior or excuse stereotyping. From either side. \*\* I _didn’t_ say that veryone who votes for Bush is a redneck, I said that everyone is a redneck will vote for Bush. Do you get the difference. If I said that X will get the black vote, would that be the same as saying that everyone votes for X will be black? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/153 "2004-01-10T20:59:49Z")
> [@](#): > > I said that everyone is a redneck will vote for Bush. That should be, “evryone who _is_ a redneck will vote for Bush.” ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/154 "2004-01-10T21:11:00Z")
**Diogenes** , I’ll accept that I read that wrong. But can I just note (in the way of advice from an ally) that **I** read that sort of statement from you the wrong way an awful lot. So, apparently do a fair number of other people in the “left-of-moderate” camp. Maybe it’s not just us? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/155 "2004-01-10T21:23:38Z")
Was going to blast DtC for his ‘hillbillies’ comment, but see others beat me to the punch. Man…that was harsh. Its no wonder you like Dean…you seem to have the same foot in mouth problem he does. Maybe you could go to work on his campaign. Why are these kinds of slurs acceptable on this board? “I didn’t say that veryone who votes for Bush is a redneck, I said that everyone is a redneck will vote for Bush.” Isn’t this like saying anyone who is a niggah will vote for so and so, or every one who is a spic will vote for thus and thus, or everyone who is a kike will vote for…? Not only is it offensive, but its just wrong. NOT all the folks who YOU categorize as ‘redneck’ shitkicker types will vote for Bush…though at a guess, most won’t vote for Dean as he has put them down too (though in less harsh language than you used DtC). -XT ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/156 "2004-01-10T21:25:01Z")
To add on to my previous apology, I want to say that I also knew _plenty_ of people down there who couldn’t _stand_ racism and ignorance, my mother for one. Once again, I apologize for seeming to generalize. I did not intend to speak of the south as a whole I was just addressing certain kinds of attitudes which still exist there (and up here, but those kinds of people seem to be more flagrant about there)… ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/157 "2004-01-10T21:27:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by xtisme \* > \*\*Was going to blast DtC for his ‘hillbillies’ comment, but see others beat me to the punch. Man…that was harsh. Its no wonder you like Dean…you seem to have the same foot in mouth problem he does. Maybe you could go to work on his campaign. > > Why are these kinds of slurs acceptable on this board? “I didn’t say that veryone who votes for Bush is a redneck, I said that everyone is a redneck will vote for Bush.” Isn’t this like saying anyone who is a niggah will vote for so and so, or every one who is a spic will vote for thus and thus, or everyone who is a kike will vote for…? > > Not only is it offensive, but its just wrong. NOT all the folks who YOU categorize as ‘redneck’ shitkicker types will vote for Bush…though at a guess, most won’t vote for Dean as he has put them down too (though in less harsh language than you used DtC). > > -XT \*\* It’s not the same at all. “Redneck” describes an atitude not a race. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/158 "2004-01-10T21:30:57Z")
Horseshit DtC. ‘Redneck’ describes poor whites, usually in the south…in other words poor white working men (redneck from working in the sun). You can dance all you like, but you know the truth as well as I do. It describes a sub grouping of whites, just like those other slurs can be used to describe sub groupings (or the whole 'race) of the other groups. Where I come from, ‘spic’ is used to describe ‘lazy’ mexicans, ‘nigah’ is used to describe lazy blacks, etc…and ‘redneck’ is used to describe poor white trash. BTW, my father in law would be what YOU would describe as a ‘redneck’ (lives in North Carolina, owns a pick up truck, uneducated, blue collar working class man, has several guns and hunts, etc) and HE is definitely not voting for Bush. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/159 "2004-01-10T21:34:07Z")
I don’t care what you think it means. What _I_ meant was a certain kind of attitude. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/160 "2004-01-10T21:36:20Z")
Okay…my aside has turned into a hijack. **I** accept that **Diogenes** didn’t mean to slur all Southerners or even all Bush voters. If _you_ don’t, please consider taking it to another thread, preferably begun on the topic, and letting this one get on with its original purpose. Thanks. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024.md?page=9)