# Conservatives say Dean is unelectable. I say they're afraid of him. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 6, 2004, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024 "2004-01-06T15:57:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/161 "2004-01-10T21:46:59Z")
I’ll drop out after this Jayjay…promise From DtC > [@](#): > > I don’t care what you think it means. What I meant was a certain kind of attitude. So, if I say you are a “stupid ignorant asshole”, but in my own mind that simply means I disagree with you, or that it means I think you have beady eyes, no offense intended, thats cool with you? Cool. I intend to use this interperatation of language thing in the future. To all Mods, please ASK me first if I use offensive terms or racial slurs, as they might mean something different to ME than what YOU think they mean. Thanks for your support. Now back to the regularly scheduled thread… -XT ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/162 "2004-01-10T21:51:36Z")
“Redneck” is not a racial slur. you are wrong. I’ve already apologized twice in this thread for offending southerners. If you still have a problem with me you can take it to the pit. BTW, I don’t give a fat rat’s ass _what_ you call me. Just do it in the pit where it belongs. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/163 "2004-01-10T22:51:19Z")
**Dio** , thanks for the explanation and apology. FWIW, my comment was more because of something you said awhile ago in the pit, something about how the South needs to be smacked down again, that rubbed me the wrong way; not having commented then, I commented now. I’m happy to move on. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/164 "2004-01-11T00:33:49Z")
Can’t let this slide… > [@](#): > > And Dukakis’ inability to forever hide that he was running only because Kitty wanted to be First Lady is why the GOP’s unbroken losing streak in Presidential elections only goes back to 1988, not 1984. Let’s see… That would be a losing ‘streak’ of… two elections? The Republicans win three presidential elections in a row, governing for 12 years, and then they lose two and you call it a ‘losing streak’? And at that, you seem to think that Dukakis somehow would have had a chance if only he could have looked more interested, or more manly, or something? The man lost 426-111, for God’s sake. There was far, far more wrong with Dukakis than that. In fact, this bit about him only running for President because Kitty wanted him too is news to me. I’ve never heard that particular complaint before. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/165 "2004-01-11T00:38:35Z")
It’s interesting that Dukakis beat Al Gore for the nomination. Democrats actually chose Dukakis instead of Al Gore. They also chose Dukakis over Joe Biden, Dick Gephardt, Bruce Babbitt, and Gary Hart. There’s an interesting parallel here between that election and the current one. From an outsider’s perspective, Dukakis was the weakest candidate in the field. But he was farthest to the left, and Democrats therefore set themselves up to pick him as their nominee and lose in a landslide (he carried seven small states, and that’s it). And now they’re about to do it again. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/166 "2004-01-11T00:40:16Z")
I still say that if Dukakis had managed to stay away from tanks, helmets and Willy Horton, and pulled a Muskie after the “Rape Kitty” question in that debate, he’d have pulled a hell of a lot more electorals. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/167 "2004-01-11T01:09:51Z")
I rise in defense of friend **Dio**. He is unsophisticated in the southern ecology. I doubt very much if he can correctly distinguish a peckerwood from a redneck, or for that matter, a Louisiana coon-ass. This cannot be said to be his fault, American education being what it isn’t. His mistake is in having things a bit backward, he assumes that all “rednecks” will vote for Bush. Willy is a “redneck”, as am I. Its only that he has mistakenly reversesd the procedure, he has identified all peckerwood assholes as rednecks, but has failed to grasp that not all assholes are peckerwoods, much less rednecks. Its a subtle matter of taxonomy. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/168 "2004-01-11T01:43:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\*Its a subtle matter of taxonomy. \*\* Typical Democrat. Tax, tax, tax! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/169 "2004-01-11T03:34:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\*I rise in defense of friend **Dio**. He is unsophisticated in the southern ecology. I doubt very much if he can correctly distinguish a peckerwood from a redneck, or for that matter, a Louisiana coon-ass. This cannot be said to be his fault, American education being what it isn’t. > > His mistake is in having things a bit backward, he assumes that all “rednecks” will vote for Bush. Willy is a “redneck”, as am I. Its only that he has mistakenly reversesd the procedure, he has identified all peckerwood assholes as rednecks, but has failed to grasp that not all assholes are peckerwoods, much less rednecks. > > Its a subtle matter of taxonomy. \*\* I have to say that I _do_ know what a coon-ass is. My grandfather (God rest his alcoholic soul) was a genuine Cajun chef. He worked on oil rigs in the Gulf of Mexico and lived in a trailer park in Thibodeaux, Louisiana. He taught me how to fry catfish and tried to get me to drink beer with him when I was quite underage. He was also a veteran of WWII who ran ashore at Omaha Beach on D Day. He was quite a character. He was, as you say, a redneck but not an asshole peckerwood. Thanks for the less in nomenclature but in my defense I _have_ heard poor white southerners call other poor white southerners “rednecks” in a derisive way, such as “Don’t pay any attention to old Emmit when he starts talkin’ about the coloreds. He’s a redneck.” Now what’s the difference between a “Bubba” and a “Good 'ol Boy?” I never could get them straight. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/170 "2004-01-11T16:50:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > **NASCAR, now? Is Dean really that stupid, or is he hoping the South is that stupid?** As a Southerner, I must tell you that there is plenty of evidence that the South is that stupid … in fact it’s WAAAAY past that stupid. Rove knows it, too. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/171 "2004-01-11T16:53:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jayjay \* > \*\*That doesn’t help much. Calling all the people who may vote for Bush redneck toothless inbred hillbillies is pretty much the definition of elitist. Political disagreement does not translate into superior/inferior or excuse stereotyping. From either side. \*\* Nah, that’s just going tit for tat with the pubbies. Do ya even REMEMBER the Clinton administration? The 2000 election. We Dems have a lot of name-calling to do before we’re close to being on par with you. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/172 "2004-01-11T16:56:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*Once again, I am _from_ the south. I have relatives who _are_ the sterotypical rednecks. My vitriol comes from a long acquaintance with real people. I’m sorry I overstated it or that I seemed to be generalizing about the south. \*\* Diogenes I understand completely. I’m from the South too, and I hate the “we love our ignorance” element that is still surprisingly strong here. I mean, the Pubbies were nasty, vicious, scum-sucking bastards for portraying Cleland as an unpatriotic fan of Osama bin Ladin, but God, the idjits in Georgia actually FELL for it! ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/173 "2004-01-11T17:01:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Evil Captor \* > \*\*Nah, that’s just going tit for tat with the pubbies. Do ya even REMEMBER the Clinton administration? The 2000 election. We Dems have a lot of name-calling to do before we’re close to being on par with you. \*\* Okay, this is just stupid, in several ways. First of all, I’m not a Republican. I should actually challenge you to pistols at dawn and choose your second for even implying that. Second of all, “he did it so we’re justified in doing it too” isn’t a valid construct in any mature set of ethics. It’s a very juvenile way of looking at the world. Gratuitous insults and desperate attempts at finding ANYTHING to hang Clinton on made the Republicans look bad during Clinton’s administration. Are you really saying that you want the Democrats to win a race to the bottom? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/174 "2004-01-11T17:04:52Z")
OK, you’re not a Repub. Fine. Winning a race to the bottom is better than losing the race. I think if the Dems are going to beat the Dems at the polls again, ever, the gloves are gonna have to come off … becuase the Pubbies have definitely taken THEIR gloves off. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/175 "2004-01-11T18:27:16Z")
**jayjay** said: > [@](#): > > Or maybe I just get tired of arguing against the “liberal elite” charge and then turning around and finding some of the most outspoken liberal posters painting their opposition as uneducated hicks who shtup their cousins. Yep, it sucks when your own allies come out and say bigoted and stupid things. Then they have to backpedal like mad, parsing the meaning of ‘redneck’ away until it means something like only non-denominational people who torture kittens, and who could be against that, and you think you’ve got the ugly genie back in the bottle, and then along comes… **Evil Captor** : > [@](#): > > As a Southerner, I must tell you that there is plenty of evidence that the South is that stupid … in fact it’s WAAAAY past that stupid. > … > …but God, the idjits in Georgia actually FELL for it! And you have to start all over again. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/176 "2004-01-11T18:31:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Evil Captor \* > \*\*OK, you’re not a Repub. Fine. > > Winning a race to the bottom is better than losing the race. I think if the Dems are going to beat the Dems at the polls again, ever, the gloves are gonna have to come off … becuase the Pubbies have definitely taken THEIR gloves off. \*\* Oh, look! Our enemies are jumping off a bridge! We have to jump faster! :rolleyes: A race to nowhere gets you nowhere. The Republicans made a mockery of domestic politics and the Constitutional impeachment process. Do the Democrats really have to extend that sideshow? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/177 "2004-01-11T20:56:03Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* **jayjay said: Yep, it sucks when your own allies come out and say bigoted and stupid things. Then they have to backpedal like mad, parsing the meaning of ‘redneck’ away until it means something like only non-denominational people who torture kittens, and who could be against that, and you think you’ve got the ugly genie back in the bottle, and then along comes…** We who hate the ugliness present in some parts of the South and have to deal with it on a day by day basis because we live here are entitled to vent now and again. I’m sure that ignorance-worshipping is universal, but we’ve got a pretty virulent strain of it down here. \*\*And you have to start all over again. \*\* If you have some more accurate way to characterize the utter stupidity of falling for ads that characterize a triple-amputee Vietnam veteran as a unpatriotic OBL-lover, I await it with bated breath … ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/178 "2004-01-11T20:58:38Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by jayjay \* \*\*A race to nowhere gets you nowhere. The Republicans made a mockery of domestic politics and the Constitutional impeachment process. Do the Democrats really have to extend that sideshow? \*\* Unfortunately, yes we do, if we want to win. Careful observation will show that the Republican outrages have barely registered on the American electorate. The Repubs have discovered that they can play dirty and get away with it. So long as we persist in bringing a knife to a gun fight, we will lose. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/179 "2004-01-11T21:05:42Z")
Then we lose no matter what. I personally think it would be nice if, once everything self-destructs because of a total loss of civility and moderation on both sides, there will be **somebody** to pick up the pieces again. Your tactics seem to leave no one on cleanup. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024/180 "2004-01-11T22:04:00Z")
> [@](#): > > If you have some more accurate way to characterize the utter stupidity of falling for ads that characterize a triple-amputee Vietnam veteran as a unpatriotic OBL-lover, I await it with bated breath … Do you have a cite that says anyone called Max Cleland an Osama Bin Laden lover? Or that this was the only issue that cost him the election? And while we’re at it, is there some magical power you attain from being wounded in Vietnam that makes you incapable of making policy mistakes? It’s an interesting tactic you’re employing here. Saxy Chambliss went over the line in airing that commercial with Saddam and Osama on it, no doubt. So you’d rather focus on that, and then claim the voters were ‘hoodwinked’ by it, and then use that false characterization to declare that southerners are stupid. Has it occured to you that A) offensive though the commercial might have been, the essential point that Cleland was misguided on his approach to terrorism might have had some resonance with the voters, B) Saxy Chambliss is a big name with many advantages, C) There are other issues that decide campaigns? For instance, Cleland had only a 16% approval rating from the National Federation of Independent Business, while Chambliss’s rating was 91%. In a state that puts great importance in small business, things like this make a real difference. Stop trivilializing and demonizing your political opponents, and you may start discovering some nuances that give you a little more insight into the way the world works. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-say-dean-is-unelectable-i-say-theyre-afraid-of-him/223024.md?page=10)