# Conservatives - who's an honest liberal? Libs - who's an honest conservative? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 8, 2008, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-whos-an-honest-liberal-libs-whos-an-honest-conservative/455713 "2008-07-08T16:47:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-whos-an-honest-liberal-libs-whos-an-honest-conservative/455713/21 "2008-07-08T19:30:39Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] I don’t think of **A\_D** as a conservative at all, except on gun control. [/QUOTE] Damn your lying eyes! Well, that clinches it. Where did I go wrong, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-whos-an-honest-liberal-libs-whos-an-honest-conservative/455713/22 "2008-07-08T19:33:20Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Thanks, but I just don’t see myself as a conservative. I guess we libertarian-ish posters here will never shake that image. 🙂 [/QUOTE] I think it’s your love of playing devils’s advocate and the fact that this is a rather left-leaning board leads you to sound conservative more than you actually are. If this were a right-leaning board, I suspect you’d come across as a flaming liberal. You like to argue, **John** , and you’re very good at it. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-whos-an-honest-liberal-libs-whos-an-honest-conservative/455713/23 "2008-07-08T19:35:45Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] Damn your lying eyes! Well, that clinches it. Where did I go wrong, exactly? [/QUOTE] You sounded too rational. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-whos-an-honest-liberal-libs-whos-an-honest-conservative/455713/24 "2008-07-08T19:36:11Z")
[QUOTE=Oy!] Blame it on **Shodan**! 😃 [/QUOTE] No offense, but I would prefer if you could keep my name out of this. My feeling is that, the more I would participate in this thread, the more likely it is to be derailed and/or moved to the Pit. It’s your thread, handle it as you like - but it has nothing to do with me. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-whos-an-honest-liberal-libs-whos-an-honest-conservative/455713/25 "2008-07-08T19:37:55Z")
Sorry, **Shodan** , I wanted to give credit where credit was due. Didn’t mean to offend, and thus far, there’s no sign of anyone getting hostile at all, thank heavens. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-whos-an-honest-liberal-libs-whos-an-honest-conservative/455713/26 "2008-07-08T19:43:20Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] Well, that clinches it. Where did I go wrong, exactly? [/QUOTE] Well, to be honest I thought you agreed with all the non-conservative stuff **JM** just _claimed_ ( 😃 ) to be in favor of- with the caveat that you voted for the war before you voted against it. With the possible exception of the death penalty, since I haven’t participated in one of those threads in ages and no longer have the foggiest idea of who supports what. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-whos-an-honest-liberal-libs-whos-an-honest-conservative/455713/27 "2008-07-08T19:51:11Z")
I’m on the left, but IRL, I’d say an honest conservative would be [Tom McClintock](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_McClintock) ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-whos-an-honest-liberal-libs-whos-an-honest-conservative/455713/28 "2008-07-08T19:52:53Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Well, to be honest I thought you agreed with all the non-conservative stuff **JM** just _claimed_ ( 😃 ) to be in favor of- with the caveat that you voted for the war before you voted against it. With the possible exception of the death penalty, since I haven’t participated in one of those threads in ages and no longer have the foggiest idea of who supports what. [/QUOTE] My positions on those are much more nuanced. In some cases it’s anti-but-resigned-to-reality, in others it’s only-under-certain-circumstances. Anyway, let’s not derail this any further. I’m just surprised that I’m no longer considered by some to be a “conservative” in light of the fact that I used to be so far-right that if I took a left turn I’d be standing up straight. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-whos-an-honest-liberal-libs-whos-an-honest-conservative/455713/29 "2008-07-08T19:58:00Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] I’m just surprised that I’m no longer considered by some to be a “conservative” in light of the fact that I used to be so far-right that if I took a left turn I’d be standing up straight. [/QUOTE] Admittedly, when I first showed up around here I had you much further to the right on my Doper Continuum. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-whos-an-honest-liberal-libs-whos-an-honest-conservative/455713/30 "2008-07-08T20:11:42Z")
Yeah, **Bricker** , and also **Sam Stone** , to the extent that I almost posted to the “I’m a liberal, but…” thread something like “I’m a total commie, but I find myself agreeing with almost everything **Sam Stone** posts”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-whos-an-honest-liberal-libs-whos-an-honest-conservative/455713/31 "2008-07-08T21:16:24Z")
[QUOTE=Oy!] I think it’s your love of playing devils’s advocate and the fact that this is a rather left-leaning board leads you to sound conservative more than you actually are. If this were a right-leaning board, I suspect you’d come across as a flaming liberal. You like to argue, **John** , and you’re very good at it. [/QUOTE] No I don’t! 🙂 I will sometimes play DA if I see people taking a rigid stance on a subject that has some ambiguity in it, but more often than not I get called out for playing DA when I am not doing anything of the sort. It’s like some people can’t accept that I actually do hold a view different from their own on a given subject. [For example.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9978766&postcount=23) ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-whos-an-honest-liberal-libs-whos-an-honest-conservative/455713/32 "2008-07-08T21:19:42Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] No I don’t! 🙂 [/QUOTE] That’s not an argument! ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-whos-an-honest-liberal-libs-whos-an-honest-conservative/455713/33 "2008-07-09T05:20:28Z")
Ok, but I think it’s fair to call **John Mace** center-right, if for no other reason than the side he usually argues for here. No reason to hand the conservative epithet around his neck. _kidding_ **Sam Stone** and **Bricker** deserve a shout-out, as does **Airman Doors** , to take 3 examples of those with POVs to the right of my own. A clear mark of dishonesty might apply to posters who fabricate evidence. It takes a certain type of shamelessness to do that on a board devoted to fighting ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-whos-an-honest-liberal-libs-whos-an-honest-conservative/455713/34 "2008-07-09T20:15:48Z")
To be honest I don’t think I can single out people for being particularly honest. Some offer more logical arguments than others. I think a lot of us like John Mace cause he seems to be right down the middle and doesn’t gloat or antagonize the way a lot of us do (me included). Some conservatives that post intelligently still have views that I find to be incompatible with intelligence, such as belief in the Second Half of the Second Amemdment or the whole libertarian philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-whos-an-honest-liberal-libs-whos-an-honest-conservative/455713/35 "2008-07-09T20:37:35Z")
In any political debate here on the SDMB, I tend to skim over most of the coherent liberal posts (which I generally already know I agree with) and of course skip any posts that are stupid one-liners, or are by obvious loons. I tend to always carefully read anything written by **Bricker** , **Sam Stone** , and especially **John Mace** (ok, ok, he says he’s not conservative.) I also tend to respect about anything **Airman Doors** has to say as well, and certainly have appreciated much of **Ivylass** ’s point of view. I guess these posters would be my nominees for “honest conservatives.” Obviously, I don’t always agree with those guys, but I usually find what they have to say to be worth paying attention to. As for honest liberals, well I’m not a conservative in the current sense of the word, so I’m not sure I’m supposed to list them, as per the OP. But anyway I’ll say that I respect and enjoy reading **Liberal** , **Left Hand of Dorkness** , **Diogenes the Cynic** , **Shayna** , **Cervaise** , and **Philosophr**. I do usually pay more attention to the conservatives, though. I prefer that my thinking be challenged. It’s too easy for me to agree with the “left” bunch. Edit: these are obviously all people who post a lot. There have been innumerable other posters I learned from, too many to name. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-whos-an-honest-liberal-libs-whos-an-honest-conservative/455713/36 "2008-07-09T20:41:18Z")
Agreed, **Knorf**. I’m not here to be patted on the back and told that my views are correct. I’d rather hear about how I’m wrong. …That almost sounds masochistic. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-whos-an-honest-liberal-libs-whos-an-honest-conservative/455713/37 "2008-07-09T20:43:44Z")
[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever] I’d rather hear about how I’m wrong. [/QUOTE] Just wait until they announce Offensive Rookie of the Year… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-whos-an-honest-liberal-libs-whos-an-honest-conservative/455713/38 "2008-07-09T20:53:02Z")
The main reason I participate on this board is because you can’t get away for long with just spouting off stuff from the top of your head. Someone smarter and more knowledgeable than you will call you on it. Idiots and fools can’t really flourish here. Either you grow up, learn something, or get frustrated and bail (I’ve been working on the first two things.) The people I condescendingly referred to as loons here are actually far more worth reading than most people just about anywhere else. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-whos-an-honest-liberal-libs-whos-an-honest-conservative/455713/39 "2008-07-09T21:07:57Z")
Are you kidding? I wouldn’t _dare_ be condescending around here! It’s a dead certainty that I’d be bitten in the ass in three seconds flat. I’m probably more timid and humble around here than I’ve ever been in real life anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-whos-an-honest-liberal-libs-whos-an-honest-conservative/455713/40 "2008-07-09T21:27:04Z")
[QUOTE=Knorf] Idiots and fools can’t really flourish here. [/QUOTE] I beg to differ. _I’ve_ been here for five years! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-whos-an-honest-liberal-libs-whos-an-honest-conservative/455713.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservatives-whos-an-honest-liberal-libs-whos-an-honest-conservative/455713.md?page=3)