# Considering divorcing disabled husband to impoverish him **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 19, 2005, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/considering-divorcing-disabled-husband-to-impoverish-him/295237 "2005-03-19T00:05:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/considering-divorcing-disabled-husband-to-impoverish-him/295237/41 "2005-03-19T09:30:14Z")
> [@Rusalka](#): > > But how can you divorce him without lying? If you can’t be honest about the reason, and you state you don’t want to lie, the whole idea is moot, isn’t it? That has nothing to do with naivete. > > So you are saying that the state doesn’t allow you enough money to pay your mortgage and eat, and basic necessities and provide for the medicine? Would you lose your house if you paid for his medicine? Is it that kind of choice? Please be honest. > > Or are you saying that your luxuries are more important than your husband’s medical care? Help me understand this, because it looks like that’s what you’re saying. > > There are lots of people with absolutely no resources, in the position you are in, who do not own a thing. Those people have no choice, unlike you. The system does not have enough money as it is, should those people pay more so that you can afford some luxuries? Who should pay so that you can continue to live in your current fashion? This is not a moral point but a practical, social one. I’d be interested in your answers. I’d like to address this. First of all, as noted, several states are “no fault”. Therefore, no lying would be involved. Though I can’t see how that would make a difference considering what reality they’re up against. Talk about apples and oranges. Second, I can’t imagine anyone could pass judgment on such a harsh and difficult situation. But then again, that’s just me. Thirdly, the most important thing appears to be that keeping her husband’s _medication, care and relative comfort until the end_ is what should be considered. If they lost their house, how could that “ethical” decision be beneficial in any way to the situation? Would that not just make everything else on top of it worse? Next, as someone else pointed out, the few _luxuries_ that she mentioned don’t really seem like much in the face of something so huge and devastating. Have you ever been in such a demoralizing circumstance that such a piddly ‘perk’ might help at all? I’ve been through roughly a decade of agoraphobia and more in the way of mental illness and though my husband and I eventually had to file bankruptcy due to my inability to function normally, the internet was my only life-line and contact with society. Without it, suicide certainly would have been infinitely more appealing than it already was. Too bad that you don’t seem to understand the complexities involved. Perhaps that should be thought on more before rendering such opinions. Last of all, it’s true that many folks have NO options. Sounds to me like they’re in roughly the same position and have found not much alternatives either. I don’t think forfeiting the legalities you’ve chosen to follow with the love of your life is much of a good solution. As a matter of fact, it comes across as extremely dire and a _last_ resort. Furthermore, isn’t the system there in the first place for those who need it? Aren’t the ones “scamming” it those who truly don’t? :mad: Not someone like the poor people enquiring here. I know that, at least, I’d be more than happy to contribute to a system that takes care of those who cannot help themselves when forced in such a fashion, rather than allow them to jump through idiotic hoops to attain basic health care that’s freakin’ overpriced to begin with. Compassion isn’t restricted only to those who can afford it. There also isn’t a maximum on its generosity, as far as I can tell. Isn’t that why we have social services anyway? ~Kemi, sorry this is so personal but not only have I been there and done that, but I’ve seen it happen to too many who deserve much better -and- shouldn’t be castigated in the process (or stigmatized/demonized). Oh, and godspeed to **AuGratin** , her husband and all their loved ones. I can’t begin to comprehend how horrible this is all around. Whatever y’all choose, and I would most definitely feel supportive if you opted for divorce out of necessity (one of the greatest acts of love that I could foresee, in my humble opinion), I wish the very best. My heart goes out to you both. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/considering-divorcing-disabled-husband-to-impoverish-him/295237/42 "2005-03-19T13:37:29Z")
> [@Hokkaido Brit](#): > > I think you should consider the fact that if you divorce your husband you will no longer be his next of kin. That might mean that if he gets really sick, you will not be able to be with him or make decisions on his behalf. That would be really horrible and tragic for you both. This really is the 500-pound gorilla sitting in the corner, and is the one aspect of this situation that you’d be ignoring at your peril. As an ex-spouse, you certainly wouldn’t be allowed to make critical medical decisions on his behalf, and you might not even be able to visit him in the hospital when he would need you the most. You might be able to overcome some of this problem with some clear, written directives, but I wouldn’t count on it. Proceed with great caution. Hope things work out for you. ---
**Author:** ![rwjefferson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@rwjefferson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rwjefferson)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/considering-divorcing-disabled-husband-to-impoverish-him/295237/43 "2005-03-19T13:54:04Z")
The decision may not be yours. He may choose to divorce you. Best Wishes rwj ---
**Author:** ![Scribble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scribble/32/3317_2.png) [@Scribble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scribble)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/considering-divorcing-disabled-husband-to-impoverish-him/295237/44 "2005-03-19T14:06:40Z")
I just wanted to second some of what **faithfool** said. > [@faithfool](#): > > …[M]any folks have NO options. Sounds to me like they’re in roughly the same position and have found not much alternatives either. I don’t think forfeiting the legalities you’ve chosen to follow with the love of your life is much of a good solution. As a matter of fact, it comes across as extremely dire and a _last_ resort. Yeah, that’s how I read this, too. I’d make a good, hefty bet that the divorce **AuGratin** is considering is absolutely a last-ditch effort to keep her husband in the medical care he so urgently needs. And I really don’t see any thoughts on how to get the help he needs from a ridiculously-designed, possibly badly-run system as unethical. After all, public services exist to _serve members of the public that need them._ If those services aren’t doing what they’re supposed to–i.e., help people whose needs have outstripped personal resources–it seems to me that the system is at fault, not the people who need to use it. As far as people complaining that such misuse strains everyone else’s wallets–well, yes, of course it does. But paying for cases like **AuGratin** ’s husband is exactly what those publically-funded (i.e., you-and-me-funded) services are for. I have no problem with tax money going to pay for medications and other medical aid for people who need it. I think it’s really tragic and outrageous that **AuGratin** would even have to think of options like divorcing her husband in order to get what she and her husband need. But, back to immediately practical concerns. **AuGratin** –You said that, in order to get your husband his medical care, either you and he combined would have to earn less money (so you could get SSDI to cover the costs) or you’d have to earn more of it (to pay for it from your own means). How much more would you have to earn? Would it be possible to get a better-paying (or worse-paying, if that’s easier to get) job? Are there other sources of income you could find and/or russle up? The divorce idea doesn’t sound like a particularly good way to go, if only because of the reasons **Hokkaido Brit** and **mangeorge** pointed out. Divorcing your husband might not put your husband in a more favorable financial position, and you might lose the ability to make medical decisions for him or be with him when the end comes. There’s got to be a better alternative for you guys. I wish you the very best of luck, and I hope you find a solution to your financial problems. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/considering-divorcing-disabled-husband-to-impoverish-him/295237/45 "2005-03-19T14:14:28Z")
A thought: Could you get around the reported income with a divorce by setting up a third party (charitable organization or possibly friend)? Is there anything illegal about giving less than $11,000 a month to someone, and then that someone giving the money to your no-longer-husband-in-name-only? ---
**Author:** ![Scribble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scribble/32/3317_2.png) [@Scribble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scribble)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/considering-divorcing-disabled-husband-to-impoverish-him/295237/46 "2005-03-19T14:25:26Z")
Frickin’ typos. > [@Scribble](#): > > And I really don’t see any thoughts on how to get the help he needs from a ridiculously-designed, possibly badly-run system as unethical. Obviously, what everyone’s concerned with here are actual _actions_ that could get **AuGratin** and her husband the help they need. I assume that we’re not discussing the ethics of anyone’s thoughts on the matter. Gah. I’m liking the third party/charitable trust idea that **robertliguori** suggested. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/considering-divorcing-disabled-husband-to-impoverish-him/295237/47 "2005-03-19T14:26:54Z")
One of the things you must consider from a moral perspective is that you are forcing your neighbors to pay for a luxury item (medication) that will benefit just one person. ---
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/considering-divorcing-disabled-husband-to-impoverish-him/295237/48 "2005-03-19T16:10:32Z")
**AuGratin** , if you would like to e-mail me privately on this, please do. I’ve had a similar situation which might provide some insight for you but I’d rather not talk about it on the board. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/considering-divorcing-disabled-husband-to-impoverish-him/295237/49 "2005-03-19T16:37:06Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > One of the things you must consider from a moral perspective is that you are forcing your neighbors to pay for a luxury item (medication) that will benefit just one person. Ummm, when did meds become a luxury? Or am I being whooshed? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/considering-divorcing-disabled-husband-to-impoverish-him/295237/50 "2005-03-19T16:49:25Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > One of the things you must consider from a moral perspective is that you are forcing your neighbors to pay for a luxury item (medication) that will benefit just one person. Since when is _medication_ a _luxury_? :dubious: :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/considering-divorcing-disabled-husband-to-impoverish-him/295237/51 "2005-03-19T17:13:34Z")
You may want to consider finding another job with an employer selected for an especially strong health benefits package. Places to look include government and insurance companies. A social worker may be a good person to advise you on this. Some insurance plans exclude pre-existing conditions and some do not. I don’t see any ethical or legal issues in choosing to receive some of your compensation in the form of benefits rather than salary. An employer typically would not reduce your salary/ hourly rate to allow you to qualify for benefits. They might be willing to reduce your hours with a corresponding reduction in rate of pay. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/considering-divorcing-disabled-husband-to-impoverish-him/295237/52 "2005-03-19T17:16:47Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > One of the things you must consider from a moral perspective is that you are forcing your neighbors to pay for a luxury item (medication) that will benefit just one person. Currently the taxes of folks like you pay for my weekly therapy session, 60 miligrams of Paxil and 54 miligrams of Concerta in the morning and 600 miligrams of lithium carbonate at night. I was unaware that any of the above were luxuries. As somebody in the system, I can tell you the system is thoroughly screwed up. What **Au Gratin** is discussing is not fraud. It is simply shifting an item from column A to subcolumn F. At my last case review, I was supplying proof of income and among the stream of nervous babble I mentioned that a review of my bank statements (I’d gone through them looking for the most recent one as proof of assets) showed that I actually got that income once every two months rather than once each month. The caseworker managed to pick that out of my ramblings. She asked some questions about it, then altered the forms to reflect that fact. She told me ‘You should change that information on your forms. You’ll be elligible for more benefits.’ I agree that a lawyer or professional working in the SSA field should be consulted to see what the consequences of a divorce would be. But, based on my experience, the response from the SSA won’t be ‘You got a divorce to increase benefits? That’s fraud!’. It will be along the lines of ‘You got a divorce to increase benefits? Why can’t we ever get this system fixed? You shouldn’t have to get a divorce so he can get the help he needs!’ ---
**Author:** ![Sequent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Sequent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sequent)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/considering-divorcing-disabled-husband-to-impoverish-him/295237/53 "2005-03-19T17:47:36Z")
First, my heart goes out to you. Disregard the swift, cruel judgment of some; I hope they never are put in the position of having to watch someone they love dearly die of a degenerative disease. A wild-assed suggestion then, since you’re already considering extreme measures, have you though about emigrating to a country that believes in health care, like, say, Canada? Obviously, you’d need to make sure you’d be getting the benefits you needed, but if you would, then I’d think it an option preferable to divorce. Again, just a suggestion. I wish you the best. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2005, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/considering-divorcing-disabled-husband-to-impoverish-him/295237/54 "2005-03-20T01:25:26Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Since when is _medication_ a _luxury_? > > :dubious: :eek: Medicine has _always_ been a luxury. At any rate, you certainly don’t have a _right_ to it… ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2005, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/considering-divorcing-disabled-husband-to-impoverish-him/295237/55 "2005-03-20T01:35:04Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Medicine has _always_ been a luxury. At any rate, you certainly don’t have a _right_ to it… I think you do. Certainly, if it’s available. But then, I’m in a country with universal healthcare. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2005, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/considering-divorcing-disabled-husband-to-impoverish-him/295237/56 "2005-03-20T05:17:18Z")
What a heartbreaking situation. I’m sure you’ve already looked into this, but some drug companies offer their drugs at highly reduced costs under certain circumstances. If you haven’t already, contact them to see what deals they might be willing to cut. I’ve been in the same position you are in. I was slipping farther and farther into debt to pay for $1000/month pharmacy bills for my so-beloved-it-makes-my-heart-ache husband. Divorce would have made him eligible for more reduced costs on the drugs than the prescription plan he had through my employment. We were so foolishly proud we didn’t want to apply for disability. We thought people like Crafter Man would despise us for it. We finally did apply, and he got it easily. A few reversals of fortune, health-wise, have reduced the monthly costs to barely more than the disability payment. Some day we may even manage to pay off those debts, too. I desperately wish I could offer some great advice or consoling wisdom. But all I can offer is my deepest sympathy for your situation. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2005, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/considering-divorcing-disabled-husband-to-impoverish-him/295237/57 "2005-03-20T10:04:54Z")
Are there any charities that might be able to help? Specifically religious ones that have an agenda in: (a) terminal care (as they oppose euthanasia, so provide palliative care to the very ill) (b) keeping married people together I personally see no moral or ethical issues with divorcing if it gets a dying man some respite in his last years. As for all the people bleating about the “luxury” of medicine and the “taxpayer” - just wait until it is your parent, or sibling, or lover, and you have limited or no health insurance and hardly anything to live off. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2005, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/considering-divorcing-disabled-husband-to-impoverish-him/295237/58 "2005-03-20T18:42:08Z")
I apologize for posting, as I have nothing useful to add to the discussion, except: I hope the sum of the happiness yourself and your loved one experience during this trying period is as great as possible, and the pain as little as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2005, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/considering-divorcing-disabled-husband-to-impoverish-him/295237/59 "2005-03-20T22:02:26Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Medicine has _always_ been a luxury. At any rate, you certainly don’t have a _right_ to it… Considering that many people require medication for just to function, and some to actually live, then I would not call it a luxury, unless you consider life itself a luxury. Whether or not you believe in national health care is another story altogether, but medicine is NOT a fucking luxury. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2005, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/considering-divorcing-disabled-husband-to-impoverish-him/295237/60 "2005-03-20T22:29:55Z")
I have nothing to add but that you’re in my prayers, and that I am astounded at your grace and courage. I would not be surprised at all if he considers himself to be, at the end of the day, a lucky man. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/considering-divorcing-disabled-husband-to-impoverish-him/295237.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/considering-divorcing-disabled-husband-to-impoverish-him/295237.md?page=4)