# Conspiracy Buffs: Why Kill JFK? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 28, 2015, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-buffs-why-kill-jfk/713832 "2015-02-28T05:26:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-buffs-why-kill-jfk/713832/42 "2015-03-08T14:24:27Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > One lone guy with a mediocre French rifle can’t just aim it through some iron sights and take out the most powerful man in the world because he happened to be driving by that day, can he? And the drive-by made a “whoosh,” right? (Just in case… the only correct things in your sentence are “One lone guy with a | rifle | aim[ed] it | and [took] out the most powerful man in the world [,] driving by.”) ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-buffs-why-kill-jfk/713832/43 "2015-03-08T14:30:39Z")
JFK is alive and living with Elvis in Branson Mo. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-buffs-why-kill-jfk/713832/44 "2015-03-08T15:49:26Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > One lone guy with a mediocre French rifle can’t just aim it through some iron sights and take out the most powerful man in the world because he happened to be driving by that day, can he? Apparently not in re: any US Presidential assassins. Now, if we want to try it with a mediocre \*Italian \*rifle, well, some in America would argue that it was possible. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-buffs-why-kill-jfk/713832/45 "2015-03-08T16:09:50Z")
JFK was killed by a secret group of Conspiracy Theorists for the purpose of creating a conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-buffs-why-kill-jfk/713832/46 "2015-03-08T17:58:04Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > One of the points that has not been addressed in this thread is whether or not the CIA had anything to do with it. It is sort of the go-to suspect, in the CT world. (My own, also.) Do I understand you correctly; you believe that the CIA was responsible for the killing of JFK? > [@](#): > > Kennedy fucked the CIA in the whole of the Bay of Pigs operation. Then, he fired the top 3 of the CIA people, after publicly ‘taking responsibility’ for the Bay of Pigs. Dulles, Cabell and, uh, I forget the third. Lansdale??? Bissell?? (been too long). Cabell had a brother who was a politician, It is said that the brother was the mayor of Dallas. All arguably true, although it is also true that JFK did not continue to fuck the CIA after the Bay of Pigs. He and RFK were avid proponents of the spy game. Earle Cabell was mayor of Dallas in 1963. His brother Charles, along with CIA director Allen Dulles, did resign as part of the fallout of the Bay of Pigs invasion. None of this is evidence of murder, and it doesn’t even speak to motivation for the CIA to want to kill Kennedy - unless you are saying that JFK was actually killed by a couple of ex-CIA (and ex-military) homicidal vigilantes. > [@](#): > > The CIA was all over the place in the 50s and 60s. Overthrew Arbenz in Guatemala, all kinds of stuff in Africa, SA, Europe, Asia. Coups and Conspiracies were everywhere, overthrowing governments left and right (hyperbole). See France, also. > Except for the US, of course. As the movie “_Executive Action_” points out: the US can’t have conspiracies; it would make us a Banana Republic. Yet more evidence that JFK didn’t dismantle the CIA! It had a friend in Kennedy, and the assassination of Vietnam’s Diem in late 1963 is an example of the close relationship JFK maintained with the CIA right up until his death. Then again, there’s also a principle of criminal law that generally prohibits the introduction of past crimes as evidence for the current charge (so, for example, just because you have robbed banks before doesn’t mean you robbed THIS bank); it taints the jury’s review of the evidence of the crime in question. What evidence do you have that the CIA killed JFK, and not somebody else? One exception to the general legal principle I mentioned is when the crimes are nearly identical. So I’d ask you: what other CIA plot involved shooting a politician from a window during a motorcade? And wouldn’t the CIA, with its unprecedented access to JFK, have had an easier time, with so many fewer questions, if they had killed him in private, and used a medical emergency as the excuse for his death? > [@](#): > > Lone Nut was killed by a Lone Nut. With, a pitiably flimsy/idiotic excuse. That’s the problem with lone nuts. There are usually more than 1 in a big city, and their excuses don’t make much sense (what with being nuts, and all). > [@](#): > > Oswald’s interview indicated that he knew it would be pointless to kill JFK, as Johnson would take his place. Cite please. I am not familiar with this. > [@](#): > > Oswald, seeking fame, did NOT say that he was the killer. Oswald didn’t expect to die before trial. Who knows what he was planning on saying? Fortunately, we don’t need his confession to prove he was the killer. Am I correct in understanding that you not only believe that the CIA killed JFK, but that Oswald was innocent of shooting him? > [@](#): > > Warren Commission, appointed by LBJ, was headed by Allen Dulles, the CIA guy. The CIA guy who was involved in conspiracies and coups. The fired CIA guy. The fired CIA guy who was fired for the Bay of Pigs thing. The fired CIA guy whose brother was the mayor of the city where the firer (Kennedy) was murdered. And he appointed 6 other people, to say nothing of the legions of lawyers and staff members working on their behalf! Was Dulles going to kill those people too if the evidence that the CIA killed JFK came out? > [@](#): > > Bobby wouldn’t be able to prosecute, because > > 1. His brother wouldn’t be there to guarantee his job as AG. There was too much bad blood between the Kennedy’s and Lyndon to assure Bobby too much of anything. > 2. It would open a whole can of worms of CIA/mob murder-for-hire stuff in the Caribbean that Bobby and JFK were involved in. > 3. If Lyndon had anything to do with it, and Bobby tried to prosecute, you can bet that Bobby’s job, if not his life, would last about the amount of time it would take to fire a(n) AG/gun. So am I now correct in understanding that you believe that LBJ participated with the CIA in killing JFK? These questions are really just going off the rails. They are devoid of evidence, but it sure is fun to imagine that famously powerful people are also so evil that they resolve personal disputes with murder. > [@](#): > > Warren Commission left a lot of obvious holes in the investigation. People weren’t satisfied with their investigation. What holes were left? What do you know about JFK’s death that can’t be traced back to their investigation? > [@](#): > > A conspiracy viewpoint is not so foolish, given the above. Everybody who howls as if somebody peed in their Post Toasties whenever a conspiracy is brought up, seems to be more than ready to mouth about ‘tinfoil hats’, thus, demonstrating themselves witty, and giving themselves a good feeling of triumphing over the armies of ignorance, and a certain smugness at being included in the intelligentsia. You’ve utterly failed to provide any evidence that any of your suspects had anything to do with JFK’s death, except to presume really nefarious things about their character. Here are some cites to consider: [http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/jfk\_cia.htm](http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/jfk_cia.htm) [http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dulles.htm](http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dulles.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-buffs-why-kill-jfk/713832/47 "2015-03-08T18:30:14Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > What evidence do you have that the CIA killed JFK, and not somebody else? Are \*you \*saying that wasn’t JFK? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-buffs-why-kill-jfk/713832/48 "2015-03-08T18:32:27Z")
I’m saying there’s no proof that Oswald wasn’t just out to steal the Jack Ruby. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-buffs-why-kill-jfk/713832/49 "2015-03-08T18:36:20Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’m saying there’s no proof that Oswald wasn’t just out to steal the Jack Ruby. Yes, he was. I heard it from Degrassi Noel. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-buffs-why-kill-jfk/713832/50 "2015-03-08T18:50:53Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Are \*you \*saying that wasn’t JFK? > > :rolleyes: [It wasn’t](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NO3LQ691gc). ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-buffs-why-kill-jfk/713832/51 "2015-03-08T23:09:02Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > To send a message to every successive president that, when we demand it, it shall be done. Pour encourager les autres? ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-buffs-why-kill-jfk/713832/52 "2015-03-09T00:52:09Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > If the mob had really intended to eliminate the shooter, wouldn’t you have expected them to dispatch a car with a gun firing from a window within minutes of Oswald leaving the book depository on November 22nd? With the Secret Service and DPD at full state of readiness, no, I wouldn’t have expected anything like that. Would you? ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-buffs-why-kill-jfk/713832/53 "2015-03-09T14:52:17Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > With the Secret Service and DPD at full state of readiness, no, I wouldn’t have expected anything like that. Would you? Hmm…you make a good point. But, I don’t expect the mob to be involved at all in the Kennedy assassination, because there’s _no evidence_ of their involvement. Do I understand you correctly to believe that the mob was also involved in the killing of JFK? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-buffs-why-kill-jfk/713832/54 "2015-03-09T15:03:01Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > But, I don’t expect the mob to be involved at all in the Kennedy assassination, because there’s _no evidence_ of their involvement. Bugliosi addressed this at some length and with some knowledge of the (LA) mob - his contention is that the mob simply did not hit outsiders, at all, for any reason. It did not become common even in the next decades as the old order lost its grip. They killed each other, and those within the organization, but they did not kill “civilians,” especially high-profile ones. I don’t know that I 100% buy VB’s argument on the point, but as you say, the only connection between JFK and the mob is the circumstances of the time. There is no valid evidence that any mob figure from the capos on down had anything to do with the assassination. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-buffs-why-kill-jfk/713832/55 "2015-03-12T01:42:01Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > Do I understand you correctly; you believe that the CIA was responsible for the killing of JFK? > > All arguably true, although it is also true that JFK did not continue to fuck the CIA after the Bay of Pigs. He and RFK were avid proponents of the spy game. Earle Cabell was mayor of Dallas in 1963. His brother Charles, along with CIA director Allen Dulles, did resign as part of the fallout of the Bay of Pigs invasion. None of this is evidence of murder, and it doesn’t even speak to motivation for the CIA to want to kill Kennedy - unless you are saying that JFK was actually killed by a couple of ex-CIA (and ex-military) homicidal vigilantes. > > Yet more evidence that JFK didn’t dismantle the CIA! It had a friend in Kennedy, and the assassination of Vietnam’s Diem in late 1963 is an example of the close relationship JFK maintained with the CIA right up until his death. > > Then again, there’s also a principle of criminal law that generally prohibits the introduction of past crimes as evidence for the current charge (so, for example, just because you have robbed banks before doesn’t mean you robbed THIS bank); it taints the jury’s review of the evidence of the crime in question. What evidence do you have that the CIA killed JFK, and not somebody else? > > One exception to the general legal principle I mentioned is when the crimes are nearly identical. So I’d ask you: what other CIA plot involved shooting a politician from a window during a motorcade? And wouldn’t the CIA, with its unprecedented access to JFK, have had an easier time, with so many fewer questions, if they had killed him in private, and used a medical emergency as the excuse for his death? > > That’s the problem with lone nuts. There are usually more than 1 in a big city, and their excuses don’t make much sense (what with being nuts, and all). > Cite please. I am not familiar with this. > > Oswald didn’t expect to die before trial. Who knows what he was planning on saying? Fortunately, we don’t need his confession to prove he was the killer. > > Am I correct in understanding that you not only believe that the CIA killed JFK, but that Oswald was innocent of shooting him? > And he appointed 6 other people, to say nothing of the legions of lawyers and staff members working on their behalf! Was Dulles going to kill those people too if the evidence that the CIA killed JFK came out? > So am I now correct in understanding that you believe that LBJ participated with the CIA in killing JFK? > > These questions are really just going off the rails. They are devoid of evidence, but it sure is fun to imagine that famously powerful people are also so evil that they resolve personal disputes with murder. > What holes were left? What do you know about JFK’s death that can’t be traced back to their investigation? > > You’ve utterly failed to provide any evidence that any of your suspects had anything to do with JFK’s death, except to presume really nefarious things about their character. > > Here are some cites to consider: > [McAdams's Kennedy Assassination Home Page Index](http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/jfk_cia.htm) > [McAdams's Kennedy Assassination Home Page Index](http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dulles.htm) 1. mcadams…edu is all limp dick smoke and mirrors, so, I won’t go into that tepid shithole. 2. I am going to ignore your confusing the issue and your “principle of law”. Gimme a fucking break. 3. Diem gets assassinated, and the CIA and Kennedy are in a love match? Gimme another fucking break. “Yet more evidence…CIA!!!” I hate to shock you, but, nobody said that Kennedy dismantled the CIA. Sorry. Can you keep coherent, and to the subject? 4. You’re not in control of your faculties if you read into my post that I even intimated that Dulles would kill anybody dissenters with the Warren Commission. 5. For holes in the investigation, just check out “Rush to Judgement” and 'Unanswered Questions about/in Pres. Kennedy’s Assassination". For starters. There are thousands of others (figuratively). Posner’s book is a weak throwing up of dust, and it didn’t close anything, just in case you’re tempted. 6. For Oswald cite, I’m not going to look it up; I’m not invested in this thread enough to bring my big guns, since it doesn’t have moderators who will stop the assholes who usually talk about “1960s Death Ray”, and other shit. My posts on this thread are just drop ins. Cameos, if you will. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-buffs-why-kill-jfk/713832/56 "2015-03-12T01:58:24Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > Oswald didn’t expect to die before trial. Who knows what he was planning on saying? Nobody knows what he was planning on saying, I imagine. However, a cursory inspection of youtube related videos will show what he DID say, and that was that he didn’t shoot/kill anybody. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Winkler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/82dd89/32.png) [@The\_Winkler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Winkler)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2015, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-buffs-why-kill-jfk/713832/57 "2015-03-13T05:16:02Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > Nobody knows what he was planning on saying, I imagine. However, a cursory inspection of youtube related videos will show what he DID say, and that was that he didn’t shoot/kill anybody. There is evidence that Oswald thought that he was going to escape to Cuba via Mexico and be welcomed a hero. (Check Posner’s book, the one you say is just throwing up dust and doesn’t close anything. By the way, can you go into more detail about how Posner’s book failed?) And what about the fact that Oswald tried to assassinate General Walker with the same rifle that later killed Kennedy? Oswald shared that information with his wife the day after the attempt on Walker, and then she told it to the Warren Commission. Or do you claim that the government forced her to say that? ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2015, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-buffs-why-kill-jfk/713832/58 "2015-03-13T15:50:49Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > 1. mcadams…edu is all limp dick smoke and mirrors, so, I won’t go into that tepid shithole. > 2. I am going to ignore your confusing the issue and your “principle of law”. Gimme a fucking break. > 3. Diem gets assassinated, and the CIA and Kennedy are in a love match? Gimme another fucking break. “Yet more evidence…CIA!!!” I hate to shock you, but, nobody said that Kennedy dismantled the CIA. Sorry. Can you keep coherent, and to the subject? > 4. You’re not in control of your faculties if you read into my post that I even intimated that Dulles would kill anybody dissenters with the Warren Commission. > 5. For holes in the investigation, just check out “Rush to Judgement” and 'Unanswered Questions about/in Pres. Kennedy’s Assassination". For starters. There are thousands of others (figuratively). Posner’s book is a weak throwing up of dust, and it didn’t close anything, just in case you’re tempted. > 6. For Oswald cite, I’m not going to look it up; I’m not invested in this thread enough to bring my big guns, since it doesn’t have moderators who will stop the assholes who usually talk about “1960s Death Ray”, and other shit. My posts on this thread are just drop ins. Cameos, if you will. You seem angry about all this. I wouldn’t get so worked up. But, it does appear that your participation in this debate is limited to refusing to consider alternatives to your world view (“I won’t get into the tepid shithole”; “I’m not going to look it up”) and refusing to provide any information to support your world view (“I’m not invested in this thread enough to bring my big guns…”). In short, you got nothing. I find the Kennedy assassination fascinating, and would be happy to debate it. Too bad you aren’t willing to participate. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-buffs-why-kill-jfk/713832/59 "2015-03-13T16:20:46Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > Kennedy fucked the CIA in the whole of the Bay of Pigs operation. How? That’s not in any account I ever read. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2015, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-buffs-why-kill-jfk/713832/60 "2015-03-13T19:20:33Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > 1. mcadams…edu is all limp dick smoke and mirrors, so, I won’t go into that tepid shithole. > 2. I am going to ignore your confusing the issue and your “principle of law”. Gimme a fucking break. > 3. Diem gets assassinated, and the CIA and Kennedy are in a love match? Gimme another fucking break. “Yet more evidence…CIA!!!” I hate to shock you, but, nobody said that Kennedy dismantled the CIA. Sorry. Can you keep coherent, and to the subject? > 4. You’re not in control of your faculties if you read into my post that I even intimated that Dulles would kill anybody dissenters with the Warren Commission. > 5. For holes in the investigation, just check out “Rush to Judgement” and 'Unanswered Questions about/in Pres. Kennedy’s Assassination". For starters. There are thousands of others (figuratively). Posner’s book is a weak throwing up of dust, and it didn’t close anything, just in case you’re tempted. > 6. For Oswald cite, I’m not going to look it up; I’m not invested in this thread enough to bring my big guns, since it doesn’t have moderators who will stop the assholes who usually talk about “1960s Death Ray”, and other shit. My posts on this thread are just drop ins. Cameos, if you will. If you’re not invested in it then you can be more polite, get me? Don’t do this again. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2015, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-buffs-why-kill-jfk/713832/61 "2015-03-13T20:46:36Z")
> [@The\_Winkler](#): > > … Pulling off a presidential assassination would be incredibly risky and the odds of the guilty parties getting found out would be huge. … That’s why they pick a fall guy like Oswald. 😉 And another conspiracy theory begins … [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-buffs-why-kill-jfk/713832.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-buffs-why-kill-jfk/713832.md?page=4)