# Conspiracy theories harmless fun or not?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-harmless-fun-or-not/812438
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [April 15, 2018, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-harmless-fun-or-not/812438 "2018-04-15T01:53:01Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2018, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-harmless-fun-or-not/812438/61 "2018-04-17T12:46:27Z")
What was it they said back in college “History is a set of agreed upon lies” or something to that extent?
I mean it seems like all the time history is being rewritten. For example at one time Christopher Columbus was considered a hero now he is a big villain.
What it comes down to is governments want a certain history to be taught. Its like how maybe your family will cover up the crimes of an ancestor. Now granted that doesnt come up to the the level of the 9/11 stuff but it doesnt help.
---
### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2018, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-harmless-fun-or-not/812438/62 "2018-04-17T13:00:09Z")
Given the light-warp speed with which crank theories spread on social media, it’s especially important to point out their stupidity and refute them ASAP before they can gain traction in the general public.
One new one is that [The Government assassinated an opponent of releasing genetically modified mosquitoes](https://www.march-against-monsanto.com/florida-activist-drowns-in-d-c-swimming-pool-while-in-town-to-protest-gmo-mosquitoes/) into a couple of southern states (she was found drowned in a D.C. hotel swimming pool\*, with unverified reports suggesting she suffered from a seizure disorder). The conspiracy-dripping angst on Facebook is something to behold - didja know she was found dead _hours_ before she was going to present a petition with umpty-eleven signatures to Congress opposing GM mosquitoes? Apparently now that she’s dead all those signatures vanish into thin air, rather than remaining on [change.org](http://change.org).
Poor lady joins a long parade of “holistic” docs and other providers murdered by The Government/Pharma/Illuminati (including the CDC employee found dead in a river, killed because he was about to Expose the flu vaccine, never mind that he wasn’t working with vaccines).
This stuff isn’t harmless.
\*the March Against Monsanto link describes the death as suspicious, citing the day’s temperatures in the 50s as evidence the victim wouldn’t have been swimming. Guess what - it was an indoor pool. :smack:
---
### Author:  [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2018, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-harmless-fun-or-not/812438/63 "2018-04-17T13:08:25Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#):
>
> I think the question becomes “How far is it necessary to go to protect stupid people from themselves, and how far to protect everyone else from stupid people”.
^THAT
In other words, as it should be, “Stupidity is its own reward.”
Having said that, however, I have to add that the damage that can be done by people who reject true science out of superstition and suspicion while, at the same time, embrace urban legends and conspiracy theories as reality needs to be addressed. I think the only real way is through education.
---
### Author:  [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2018, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-harmless-fun-or-not/812438/64 "2018-04-17T17:42:39Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#):
>
> I mean it seems like all the time history is being rewritten. For example at one time Christopher Columbus was considered a hero now he is a big villain.
:dubious:
Not just “now”. His contemporaries also knew he was a [brutal monster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus#Accusations_of_tyranny):
> [@](#):
>
> _"By this time [1499], accusations of tyranny and incompetence on the part of Columbus had also reached the Court. Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand responded by removing Columbus from power and replacing him with Francisco de Bobadilla, a member of the Order of Calatrava… Arriving in Santo Domingo while Columbus was away in the explorations of his third voyage, Bobadilla was immediately met with complaints about all three Columbus brothers: Christopher, Bartolomeo, and Diego. Bobadilla reported to Spain that Columbus regularly used torture and mutilation to govern Hispaniola… Because of their gross misgovernance, Columbus and his brothers were arrested and imprisoned upon their return to Spain from the third voyage._
---
### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-harmless-fun-or-not/812438/65 "2018-04-17T17:46:07Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#):
>
> What was it they said back in college “History is a set of agreed upon lies” or something to that extent?
>
> I mean it seems like all the time history is being rewritten. For example at one time Christopher Columbus was considered a hero now he is a big villain.
>
> What it comes down to is governments want a certain history to be taught. Its like how maybe your family will cover up the crimes of an ancestor. Now granted that doesnt come up to the the level of the 9/11 stuff but it doesnt help.
History isn’t so much rewritten as it is revealed-the more you dig, the more you find.
1. Do you object to correcting the historical record as more information is revealed?
2. What is your personal view of Christopher Columbus?
---
### Author:  [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2018, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-harmless-fun-or-not/812438/66 "2018-04-17T18:52:48Z")
> [@Jasmine](#):
>
> ^THAT
>
> In other words, as it should be, “Stupidity is its own reward.”
>
> Having said that, however, I have to add that the damage that can be done by people who reject true science out of superstition and suspicion while, at the same time, embrace urban legends and conspiracy theories as reality needs to be addressed. I think the only real way is through education.
When reading my post that you seem to have agreed with, you missed the most important part. Stupidity being its own reward sounds nice, but stupidity is not a private activity. People’s stupidity affects everyone else, not just themselves. Education: true for the future. What about today?
---
### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-harmless-fun-or-not/812438/67 "2018-04-20T05:56:30Z")
> [@Fuji](#):
>
> :dubious:
>
> Not just “now”. His contemporaries also knew he was a [brutal monster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus#Accusations_of_tyranny):
Except back in those days false accusations to drive someone out of royal favor were rampant. The accusations may well be true, of course, but whenever they come from one source, take them with a grain of salt.
Not to mention during that period stealing corn would almost certainly get you executed in England or France.
---
### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-harmless-fun-or-not/812438/68 "2018-04-20T06:02:54Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> History isn’t so much rewritten as it is revealed-the more you dig, the more you find.
>
> 1. Do you object to correcting the historical record as more information is revealed?
> 2. What is your personal view of Christopher Columbus?
No, the issue is we are judging men of the past by today’s standards.
Most of the ancient Greek or Roman philosophers likely kept slaves\*, as did Washington and many other worthies up thru the early 1800s. Britain didn’t outlaw slavery until 1833.
Capital punishment or severe whipping was standard for what today we’d consider minor crimes also thru that period.
- Plato even wrote to justify it. Is he evil? Or a man of his time?
---
### Author:  [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-harmless-fun-or-not/812438/69 "2018-04-20T06:27:48Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#):
>
> To be fair, we don’t know how many of the Flat Earthers are doing it ironically.
I honestly don’t know how I’ve resisted joining. Or trolling the 9/11 Engineers list, like **Ann Hedonia** , but I temporarily have time on my hands.
---
### Author:  [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-harmless-fun-or-not/812438/70 "2018-04-20T15:02:51Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> Except back in those days false accusations to drive someone out of royal favor were rampant.
Perhaps. That does not appear to be the case in regards to Columbus.
> [@](#):
>
> The accusations may well be true, of course, but whenever they come from one source, take them with a grain of salt.
Well, you can start with his [own words](http://eada.lib.umd.edu/text-entries/journal/):
> [@](#):
>
> \*Sunday, 14th of October
>
> It might be converted into an island in two days, though I do not see that it would be necessary, for these people are very simple as regards the use of arms, as your Highnesses will see from the seven that I caused to be taken, to bring home and learn our language and return; unless your Highnesses should order them all to be brought to Castile, or to be kept as captives on the same island; for with fifty men they can all be subjugated and made to do what is required of them.\*
Note that Columbus’s proclivity towards enslavement was _not_ encouraged or reciprocated by [his Monarch](https://olinuris.library.cornell.edu/columbia-or-america/columbus):
> [@](#):
>
> Columbus actually considered the natives his greatest find. He thought that a new slave trade could make his discoveries lucrative. Columbus was hugely disappointed a few years later when Queen Isabela, after careful thought, decided not to open the New World to slave trading.
However, it was not merely his own words or those of Francisco de Bobadilla which condemn him to posterity. A [recent find](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/columbus-exposed-as-iron-fisted-tyrant-who-tortured-his-slaves-6094870.html) is ample testimony to his misdeeds:
> [@](#):
>
> The man who discovered America for Europe routinely tortured slaves and starved his subjects in colonies on the Caribbean island of Hispaniola.
>
> Columbus was known to have mistreated native people when he was viceroy in Santo Domingo, the capital of today’s Dominican Republic, at the end of the 15th century. But until now it had been put down to his lack of political sensitivity.
>
> The documents suggest a hidden face to the man who, after arriving in the Caribbean in 1492, fell from grace eight years later because of his conduct in Santo Domingo. In 1500, Columbus was brought back from the city as a prisoner on the orders of the Spanish monarchs, Ferdinand and Isabella, to stand trial.
>
> Statements from 23 witnesses at his trial were uncovered at the archive of Simanacas, near Valladolid, by an archivist, Isabel Aguirre, who spent a year transcribing them…
>
> …“One woman happened to say that Columbus came from a working-class family and that his father had been a weaver. Columbus’s brother Bartholme had her tongue cut out, after parading her naked through the streets on a donkey. Christopher congratulated his brother on defending the family honour.”
> [@](#):
>
> Not to mention during that period stealing corn would almost certainly get you executed in England or France.
I would need to see a cite to support this claim. [Here](https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/source/560-975dooms.asp) is one from 10th century England which appears to contradict your assertion:
> [@](#):
>
> \*The Laws of King Athelstan 924-939 A.D.
>
> Of thieves.
>
> 1. First: that no thief be spared, who may be taken hand-haebbende, above twelve years, and above eight pence. And if any one so do, let him pay for the thief according to his wer, and let it not be the more settled for the thief, or that he clear himself thereby. But if he will defend himself, or flees away, then let him not be spared. If a thief be brought into prison: that he be forty days in prison, and let him be released thereout with 120 shillings, and let the kindred enter into borh for him that he evermore desist. And if after that he steal, let them pay for him according to his wer, or bring him again therein: and if any one stand up for him, let him pay for him according to his wer, as well to the king as to him to whom it lawfully belongs: and let every man of those there who stand by him pay to the king 120 shillings as wite.\*
Bottom line, the best evidence we have suggests that Columbus was a malignant scumbag. This is very much _not_ an example of a “conspiracy theory”.
---
### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-harmless-fun-or-not/812438/71 "2018-04-20T15:09:43Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> No, the issue is we are judging men of the past by today’s standards.
>
> Most of the ancient Greek or Roman philosophers likely kept slaves\*, as did Washington and many other worthies up thru the early 1800s. Britain didn’t outlaw slavery until 1833.
>
> Capital punishment or severe whipping was standard for what today we’d consider minor crimes also thru that period.
>
> - Plato even wrote to justify it. Is he evil? Or a man of his time?
If “everybody did it”, then there is no reason to repress the facts about Columbus…but that is precisely what was done for many years. It is next to impossible to accurately judge a person, by either contemporary standards _or_ modern standards, if the facts are repressed. The more we find out, the less history is written by the victors.
---
### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-harmless-fun-or-not/812438/72 "2018-04-20T16:17:41Z")
> [@Fuji](#):
>
> Bottom line, the best evidence we have suggests that Columbus was a malignant scumbag.
THere’s considerable evidence that reports of Columbus’ alleged perfidies were exaggerated, misinterpreted or made up.
_“Many of these claims of genocide regarding Columbus are based on the excerpted writings of his contemporaries, Francisco de Bobadilla and Bartolomé de las Casas. A report by Bobadilla accuses Columbus of the most grievous offences and is often cited by the most vitriolic anti-Columbus publications; however, this report is inherently skewed. Bobadilla was a vicious political opponent of Columbus and schemed, ultimately successfully, to depose him as Governor of the Indies. Bobadilla was certainly no friend of the Indians, as he pardoned the rebel leader responsible for the establishment of the repartimiento system. He also accused Columbus of abusing the Indians and had him sent back to Spain in chains for these alleged misdeeds. Though his report is accepted as a piece of objective history by Columbus’ opponents, it should be viewed as a piece of political slander to discredit Columbus, furthering Bobadilla’s selfish bid to become Governor of the Indies.”_
> **[Examining the Historical Columbus - The Dartmouth Review](https://dartreview.com/examining-the-historical-columbus/)**
>
> The Dartmouth Review is a bi-weekly conservative newspaper at Dartmouth College in Hanover, New Hampshire. It was founded in 1980, and remains independent.
Even if Bobadilla’s (or others’) accusations against Columbus do not stand up, it’s still not evidence of a conspiracy against him (as conspiracies are defined for the purposes of this thread).
---
### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-harmless-fun-or-not/812438/73 "2018-04-20T17:01:35Z")
> [@Fuji](#):
>
> Well, you can start with his [own words](http://eada.lib.umd.edu/text-entries/journal/):
>
> Note that Columbus’s proclivity towards enslavement was _not_ encouraged or reciprocated by [his Monarch](https://olinuris.library.cornell.edu/columbia-or-america/columbus):
>
> However, it was not merely his own words or those of Francisco de Bobadilla which condemn him to posterity. A [recent find](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/columbus-exposed-as-iron-fisted-tyrant-who-tortured-his-slaves-6094870.html) is ample testimony to his misdeeds:
>
> I would need to see a cite to support this claim. [Here](https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/source/560-975dooms.asp) is one from 10th century England which appears to contradict your assertion:
> .
No one doubts he took slaves. You will have to show that that was considered unusual in the 15th century- because it was very common.
Those accusations are indeed, those put forward by Bobadilla, Columbus’s rival.
Wow, going back to Pre-Medieval days. No, I was talking much more recently, with the ‘Bloody Code’ of English legal system from the 17th Century to the early 19th Century:
> **[The 222 Victorian crimes that would get a man hanged](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1203828/The-222-Victorian-crimes-man-hanged.html)**
>
> The list of crimes include impersonating a Chelsea pensioners, being out at night with a blackened face and stealing from a rabbit warren.
[http://www.mylearning.org/prison-and-penal-reform-in-the-1800s/p-3272/](http://www.mylearning.org/prison-and-penal-reform-in-the-1800s/p-3272/)
“You could be executed for stealing anything worth more than five shillings …”
> **[Bloody Code](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Code)**
>
> The "Bloody Code" was a series of laws in England, Wales and Ireland in the 18th and early 19th centuries which mandated the death penalty for a wide range of crimes. It was not referred to by this name in its own time; the name was given later owing to the sharply increased number of people given the death penalty, even for crimes considered minor by 21st century standards.
> In 1689, there were 50 capital offences in England and Wales; this increased to 220 by the end of the 18th century. This...
The Bloody Code is so well known, that asking for a cite it a little bit like asking for a cite that the Boer war happened.
---
### Author:  [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-harmless-fun-or-not/812438/74 "2018-04-20T17:10:41Z")
See. Harmless fun!. . . Boring to everyone else. . .
mc
---
### Author:  [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-harmless-fun-or-not/812438/75 "2018-04-20T19:14:24Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> No one doubts he took slaves. You will have to show that that was considered unusual in the 15th century- because it was very common.
:dubious: Yes, it was so common that for the next three centuries, slavery positively flourished throughout the New World domains of the Spanish monarchy. Actually… uh, no it didn’t. They went with another [system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encomienda). (“However, Queen Isabella of Castile forbade Indian slavery and deemed the indigenous to be “free vassals of the crown”.[4]”)
> [@](#):
>
> Those accusations are indeed, those put forward by Bobadilla, Columbus’s rival.
Accusations that have been, as previously [noted](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/columbus-exposed-as-iron-fisted-tyrant-who-tortured-his-slaves-6094870.html) substantiated 12 years ago by the discovery of the written testimony under oath of 23 witnesses to his crimes:
> [@](#):
>
> \*The 46-page document shows Columbus and his brothers Bartolme and Diego as tyrants who ruled through summary justice. They also forbade natives from baptism so they could used as slaves. Varela said the documents showed Columbus’s “immense greed”. He was eventually arrested, tried and dismissed as viceroy of Santo Domingo and governor of the Indies.
>
> “Now we know why he was removed from office and the good reasons for it,” she said. “Nobody likes to air dirty laundry, but this is what the document shows.”
>
> The exposure has already provoked an angry reaction. Critics say some of the accounts may have come from enemies of Columbus, who were out to damage his reputation. But other accounts come from members of his own close group, even trusted friends. “Even they told of the atrocities that happened,” said Varela. “Columbus’s government was tyrannical, with no trials or anything similar.”\*
> [@](#):
>
> Wow, going back to Pre-Medieval days. No, I was talking much more recently, with the ‘Bloody Code’ of English legal system from the 17th Century to the early 19th Century:
No, the 10th century is actually smack dab in the [middle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Ages) of Europe’s medieval period. Your cites come from hundreds of years _after_ Columbus. Moreover, you also made reference to France in your initial assertion. Your assertion remains unsupported.
---
### Author:  [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-harmless-fun-or-not/812438/76 "2018-04-20T19:34:29Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#):
>
> THere’s considerable evidence that reports of Columbus’ alleged perfidies were exaggerated, misinterpreted or made up.
>
> _“Many of these claims of genocide regarding Columbus are based on the excerpted writings of his contemporaries, Francisco de Bobadilla and Bartolomé de las Casas. A report by Bobadilla accuses Columbus of the most grievous offences and is often cited by the most vitriolic anti-Columbus publications; however, this report is inherently skewed. Bobadilla was a vicious political opponent of Columbus and schemed, ultimately successfully, to depose him as Governor of the Indies. Bobadilla was certainly no friend of the Indians, as he pardoned the rebel leader responsible for the establishment of the repartimiento system. He also accused Columbus of abusing the Indians and had him sent back to Spain in chains for these alleged misdeeds. Though his report is accepted as a piece of objective history by Columbus’ opponents, it should be viewed as a piece of political slander to discredit Columbus, furthering Bobadilla’s selfish bid to become Governor of the Indies.”_
>
> [Examining the Historical Columbus - The Dartmouth Review](http://www.dartreview.com/examining-the-historical-columbus/)
>
> Even if Bobadilla’s (or others’) accusations against Columbus do not stand up, it’s still not evidence of a conspiracy against him (as conspiracies are defined for the purposes of this thread).
I abstained from mentioning the work of las Casas, both because he did not report contemporaneously with the alleged misdeeds of Columbus, and also because he intentionally wrote with a polemical bent\*. I mentioned Bobadilla as only one of (literally) dozens of accusers of Columbus. To posit that they were _all_ mistaken as to the nature of the man, however, really does start to veer off into tin-foil hat territory.
\*It should also be noted that the source of your citation, _The Dartmouth Review_, is well known as a conservative newspaper with its own share of [controversy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dartmouth_Review#Controversies) generally, and particularly in regard to Native American issues.
---
### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-harmless-fun-or-not/812438/77 "2018-04-20T19:57:40Z")
> [@Fuji](#):
>
> :dubious: Yes, it was so common that for the next three centuries, slavery positively flourished throughout the New World domains of the Spanish monarchy. Actually… uh, no it didn’t. They went with another [system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encomienda). (“However, Queen Isabella of Castile forbade Indian slavery and deemed the indigenous to be “free vassals of the crown”.[4]”)
>
> Accusations that have been, as previously [noted](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/columbus-exposed-as-iron-fisted-tyrant-who-tortured-his-slaves-6094870.html) substantiated 12 years ago by the discovery of the written testimony under oath of 23 witnesses to his crimes:
>
> No, the 10th century is actually smack dab in the [middle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Ages) of Europe’s medieval period. Your cites come from hundreds of years _after_ Columbus. Moreover, you also made reference to France in your initial assertion. Your assertion remains unsupported.
For most purpose the Encomienda was slavery of a sort. In any case, altho Indian slavery was a on-again off again thing, Black slavery was common until 1814.
> **[Slavery in colonial Spanish America](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_Spanish_New_World_colonies#Spanish_enslavement_of_Africans)**
>
> Slavery in the Spanish American viceroyalties was an economic and social institution which existed throughout the Spanish Empire including Spain itself. Enslaved Africans were brought over to the continent for their labour, indigenous people were enslaved until the 1543 laws that prohibited it.
> The Spanish empire enslaved people of African origin. The Spanish often depended on others to obtain enslaved Africans and transport them across the Atlantic. Spanish colonies were major recipients of en...
Nope, those are the same accusations, made by the same guy.
Executions for theft were common from the Ancient Greeks thru the 1800s:
> **[9. Theft and punishment](https://www.historicallocks.com/en/site/h/articles/theft-and-punishment/)**
>
> Thieves have always existed in all cultures, and the penalties for stealing have always been harsh. Throughout history, property owners have tried to protect their possessions using guards or some kind of locking mechanisms.
_“Full thievery” meant stealing something worth 1/2 mark or more, and was punished by hanging from a tree or a gallows, or by banishment from the city and its environs._
[http://historum.com/medieval-byzantine-history/66551-capital-punishment-stealing-europe.html](http://historum.com/medieval-byzantine-history/66551-capital-punishment-stealing-europe.html)
> **[KSarisky.pdf](https://www.csustan.edu/sites/default/files/honors/documents/KSarisky.pdf)**
>
> 266.19 KB
\*The first codified constitution of
Athens, know as “Draconian Law” after the
man that wrote it, was written in seventh
century B.C. to make sure that everyone
knew what all the laws were. Capital
punishment was more present than ever in
Draconian Law; almost every crime, no
matter how petty and harmless, was
punishable by death (Ellis & Horne, 1913). \*
---
### Author:  [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-harmless-fun-or-not/812438/78 "2018-04-20T20:56:17Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> For most purpose the Encomienda was slavery of a sort.
It was most certainly _not_ chattel slavery of the kind practiced initially by Columbus and _refused_ by Isabella. Words have meanings and are not infinitely elastic to suit the purposes of “winning” an argument.
> [@](#):
>
> In any case, altho Indian slavery was a on-again off again thing, Black slavery was common until 1814.
> [Slavery in colonial Spanish America - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_Spanish_New_World_colonies#Spanish_enslavement_of_Africans)
Again, not the point. Black slavery may have become common at a latter time - but _not that of Native Americans_. If it were common practice to enslave Native Americans, then it wouldn’t haven’t been necessary to import African slaves in the first place!
> [@](#):
>
> Nope, those are the same accusations, made by the same guy.
Again, not the point. Accusations are just that unless and until they are substantiated by evidence. In Columbus’s case, there were nearly two dozen individuals who gave testimony in court to substantiate the accusations - including in some cases Columbus’s trusted friends!
> [@](#):
>
> Executions for theft were common from the Ancient Greeks thru the 1800s:
>
> [Historical locks](https://www.historicallocks.com/en/site/h/articles/theft-and-punishment/)
>
> _“Full thievery” meant stealing something worth 1/2 mark or more, and was punished by hanging from a tree or a gallows, or by banishment from the city and its environs._
>
> [Capital punishment for stealing in Europe | History Forum](http://historum.com/medieval-byzantine-history/66551-capital-punishment-stealing-europe.html)
>
> [https://www.csustan.edu/sites/default/files/honors/documents/KSarisky.pdf](https://www.csustan.edu/sites/default/files/honors/documents/KSarisky.pdf)
> \*The first codified constitution of
> Athens, know as “Draconian Law” after the
> man that wrote it, was written in seventh
> century B.C. to make sure that everyone
> knew what all the laws were. Capital
> punishment was more present than ever in
> Draconian Law; almost every crime, no
> matter how petty and harmless, was
> punishable by death (Ellis & Horne, 1913). \*
I have no idea why you’re throwing in all these references to punishments outside the time period and area under discussion. In any case, your first [citation](https://www.historicallocks.com/en/site/h/articles/theft-and-punishment/) actually states the following: _“In the Middle Ages, fines were the most common punishment for theft”._ This in no way supports your original [assertion](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20913501&postcount=67):
> [@](#):
>
> Originally Posted by **DrDeth**
> Not to mention during that period stealing corn would almost certainly get you executed in England or France.
---
### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-harmless-fun-or-not/812438/79 "2018-04-20T21:12:52Z")
> [@Fuji](#):
>
> \*It should also be noted that the source of your citation, _The Dartmouth Review_, is well known as a conservative newspaper with its own share of [controversy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dartmouth_Review#Controversies) generally, and particularly in regard to Native American issues.
Well! I guess we can ignore all that stuff then. :dubious:
My favorite Bobadilla story (OK, I only have one) is from Erik Larsen’s book “Isaac’s Storm”. He mentions the time Bobadilla, having just succeeded/deposed Columbus, was organizing a fleet to take gold and other valuable cargoes from Hispaniola back to Spain. Bobadilla is thought to have deliberately assigned Columbus’ share to a puny, miserable little ship with the idea that if any vessel foundered on the way it would be Columbus’ goodies that would be lost.
As it happened, Bobadilla’s fleet ran into a major hurricane and all ships were sunk - except Columbus’ ship (its captain sensed what was coming and sought shelter in time).
---
### Author:  [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-harmless-fun-or-not/812438/80 "2018-04-20T21:26:36Z")
> [@dropzone](#):
>
> I honestly don’t know how I’ve resisted joining. Or trolling the 9/11 Engineers list, like **Ann Hedonia** , but I temporarily have time on my hands.
Last I checked there were still a couple on the list that are outright fakes by 9/11 debunkers.
It took Gage forever to remove the various ‘Richard Cranium’ s from his list.
Even while he was bragging about how much he was vetting his members there were at least two variations on ‘Heywood Jawblowme’ festering there.
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-harmless-fun-or-not/812438.md?page=3)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-harmless-fun-or-not/812438.md?page=5)