# Conspiracy theories harmless fun or not?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-harmless-fun-or-not/812438
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [April 15, 2018, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-harmless-fun-or-not/812438 "2018-04-15T01:53:01Z")
**Posts on this page:** 4
**Page:** 5
### Author:  [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-harmless-fun-or-not/812438/81 "2018-04-20T22:18:09Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#):
>
> Well! I guess we can ignore all that stuff then. :dubious:
Not what was I arguing. More like, since you [posited](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20914203&postcount=72) that
> [@](#):
>
> THere’s considerable evidence that reports of Columbus’ alleged perfidies were exaggerated, misinterpreted or made up.
it might be wise to keep in mind that, similarly, reports of Columbus’s alleged perfidies might be minimized, misinterpreted, or simply denied by other interested parties. That’s all.
> [@](#):
>
> My favorite Bobadilla story (OK, I only have one) is from Erik Larsen’s book “Isaac’s Storm”. He mentions the time Bobadilla, having just succeeded/deposed Columbus, was organizing a fleet to take gold and other valuable cargoes from Hispaniola back to Spain. Bobadilla is thought to have deliberately assigned Columbus’ share to a puny, miserable little ship with the idea that if any vessel foundered on the way it would be Columbus’ goodies that would be lost.
>
> As it happened, Bobadilla’s fleet ran into a major hurricane and all ships were sunk - except Columbus’ ship (its captain sensed what was coming and sought shelter in time).
I kinda like that story. It’s not like Bobadilla wsan’t a dirtbag, either. It reminds me of true crime accounts where you hope that all the parties involved suffer some unfortunate end, and often they do, at the hands of their erstwhile partners… 🙂
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2018, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-harmless-fun-or-not/812438/82 "2018-04-20T22:57:58Z")
> [@Fuji](#):
>
> It was most certainly _not_ chattel slavery of the kind practiced initially by Columbus and _refused_ by Isabella. Words have meanings and are not infinitely elastic to suit the purposes of “winning” an argument.
>
> Again, not the point. Black slavery may have become common at a latter time - but _not that of Native Americans_. If it were common practice to enslave Native Americans, then it wouldn’t haven’t been necessary to import African slaves in the first place!
>
> Again, not the point. Accusations are just that unless and until they are substantiated by evidence. In Columbus’s case, there were nearly two dozen individuals who gave testimony in court to substantiate the accusations - including in some cases Columbus’s trusted friends!
>
> I have no idea why you’re throwing in all these references to punishments outside the time period and area under discussion. In any case, your first [citation](https://www.historicallocks.com/en/site/h/articles/theft-and-punishment/) actually states the following: _“In the Middle Ages, fines were the most common punishment for theft”._ This in no way supports your original [assertion](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20913501&postcount=67):
Yes, Isabella ruled against it- but then, she was only Queen of Castile and she died. All I said was that taking slaves in the 15th century was very common, which it was. Sure perhaps the Indians were \*technically \*not chattel slaves, but many were treated as such, and the Spanish certainly had no compunctions about slavery overall.
> **[Indians, Slaves, and Mass Murder: The Hidden History | Peter Nabokov](https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/11/24/indians-slaves-and-mass-murder-the-hidden-history/)**
>
> The European market in African slaves, which opened with a cargo of Mauritanian blacks unloaded in Portugal in 1441, and the explorer Christopher Columbus, born in Genoa ten years later, were closely linked. The ensuing Age of Discovery, with its...
\*Slaving interests used a succession of verbal strategies for justifying and retaining unfree Indian labor. As early as 1503 tribes designated as “cannibals” became fair game, as were Indian prisoners seized in “just wars.” Hereafter labeled esclavos de guerra (war slaves), their cheeks bore a branded “G.” Automatic servitude also awaited any hapless Indians, known as esclavos de rescate (ransomed slaves), whom Spanish slavers had freed from other Indians who had already enslaved them; the letter “R” was seared into their faces…Over the next two centuries the encomienda system and other local forms of unfree labor were used to create a virtually enslaved Indian workforce throughout Mexico, Florida, the American Southwest, down the South American coast, and over to the Philippines.
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It is the point- that accusation was from Bobadilla and it is greatly disputed, Bobadilla being a noted foe of Columbus. Note that Columbus wasnt found guilty of any of Bobadilla’s charges.
You brought in the 10th century. My point was the simple theft of food was commonly met with execution. I proved it with the English and other societies, true, right now I can’t find it in france but it was so very common you’d have to show that stealing wasn’t punished by execution in france. I did find that cutting off the hand was even more common, and that’s pretty damn barbaric. And while true, fines were the most common in that cite, that cite also listed _"More severe cases could be punishable by flogging, the cutting off of one or both ears or a hand, or death by hanging. "_ So a execution for theft was not rare.
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### Author:  [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2018, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-harmless-fun-or-not/812438/83 "2018-04-21T00:17:09Z")
C’mon, kids, I thought this was about conspiracy theories, not how big a scumbag Columbus was.
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2018, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-harmless-fun-or-not/812438/84 "2018-04-21T02:23:55Z")
> [@dropzone](#):
>
> C’mon, kids, I thought this was about conspiracy theories, not how big a scumbag Columbus was.
Good point, we’ll save that for next Columbus day! :p:D
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