# Conspiracy theories need trust in government in order to thrive. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 18, 2013, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-need-trust-in-government-in-order-to-thrive/658688 "2013-05-18T17:03:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![harmonicamoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@harmonicamoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harmonicamoon)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-need-trust-in-government-in-order-to-thrive/658688/1 "2013-05-18T17:03:04Z")
Here in Mexico there is zero trust in elected officials, hence there are no conspiracy theories. They are called events. Whereas in the US, there is a percentage that has trust in government, and a percentage that has little or no trust in government. Naturally the latter gives birth to conspiracy theories. But what gives life to these theories is there are people who trust the government. Maybe this explains Americans addiction to conspiracy theories. What think ye? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-need-trust-in-government-in-order-to-thrive/658688/2 "2013-05-18T17:07:55Z")
> [@harmonicamoon](#): > > Here in Mexico there is zero trust in elected officials, hence there are no conspiracy theories. They are called events. Whereas in the US, there is a percentage that has trust in government, and a percentage that has little or no trust in government. Naturally the latter gives birth to conspiracy theories. But what gives life to these theories is there are people who trust the government. Maybe this explains Americans addiction to conspiracy theories. What think ye? Who paid you to say this? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-need-trust-in-government-in-order-to-thrive/658688/3 "2013-05-18T17:15:35Z")
I’m amazed that some people still trust the US government, but CTists don’t trust the government, so I guess you’re saying the CT is result of their feeling of betrayal or dillusionment when they stop trusting. Similar to true believers who become fundamentalist atheists, or smokers who quit and become smoking nazis. It could be, but I think there’s a psychology to it that may not show in the same way in Mexico due to socio-economic differences. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-need-trust-in-government-in-order-to-thrive/658688/4 "2013-05-18T17:21:00Z")
Dude! The OP must had lived in a Mexican cave to not be aware of how many Mexicans saw the assassination of Colosio in the 90’s [http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1996-08-20/news/9608200202\_1\_luis-donaldo-colosio-mario-aburto-martinez-political-slaying](http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1996-08-20/news/9608200202_1_luis-donaldo-colosio-mario-aburto-martinez-political-slaying) > [@](#): > > No evidence has been produced to tie any of these deaths directly to the Colosio case. In some cases, the links were tangential. In others, the victims were involved in unrelated activities–such as prosecuting drug traffickers–that might have made them targets for assassination. > > Yet the sheer number of deaths has investigators exploring the possibility of a Colosio connection. > > One favorite conspiracy theory, assiduously denied by federal authorities, is that the Aburto in prison is an impostor. Some contend that the man who was photographed being subdued after shooting Colosio is not Aburto and that the real shooter was killed to cover up the plot. > > Meanwhile, seven members of Aburto’s family were granted political asylum last month in California. > > Various theories of the assassination and its aftermath, some half-baked, some quite plausible, surface from time to time in the Mexican press. > > One scenario involved a federal agent who was alleged to have killed Colosio and then was executed himself. The agent shot that one down, however, when he showed up in Mexico City and said he was alive, well and recently married. His absence was accounted for by a honeymoon. > > Two weeks ago, a federal judge dealt prosecutors a stunning blow when he acquitted and freed Othon Cortes Vazquez, a low-level PRI worker accused of being a second gunman. Fearing for his life, Cortes has since received special protection from human rights officials. > > The acquittal devastated the multiple-gunmen conspiracy theory and led Zedillo to remove the special prosecutor in the case. > > When a new investigator takes over, he or she will become the fourth to head the inquiry. But the new appointment may take awhile. In the last week, officials have floated the names of four people as possible replacements. All four quickly declined. > > It is not so much that they fear for their personal security, according to observers. But they see the Colosio case as a no-win situation, a political graveyard. > > Polls show that the vast majority of Mexicans believe Colosio was the victim of a far-reaching plot, probably engineered by a faction of his own ruling party. > > Any result that falls short of that perception, no matter how thorough, is likely to be rejected as a cover-up, just as millions of Americans refuse to believe that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in killing Kennedy. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-need-trust-in-government-in-order-to-thrive/658688/5 "2013-05-18T17:33:11Z")
Anti-government conspiracy theories only came about since around the 1920s with the growth of the federal government. Before that most conspiracy theories were against the “other”: masons, illuminati, Catholics, etc. ---
**Author:** ![harmonicamoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@harmonicamoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harmonicamoon)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-need-trust-in-government-in-order-to-thrive/658688/6 "2013-05-18T17:48:33Z")
For example, recently an elected official died in a helicopter crash here in Mexico. **No one** thought the crash was due to pilot error, faulty part, or faulty maintenance. **Everyone knew** it was an assassination. When a subsequent investigation turned up nothing their view was reenforced. This happens in the US, and those trusting (in government) think pilot error, etc. The CT’s claim assassination, and when the investigation turns up nothing, they claim coverup. These theories exist because there is trust in government. When there is no trust in government they are called events. It might appear to be semantics, but I feel it is a little deeper. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-need-trust-in-government-in-order-to-thrive/658688/7 "2013-05-18T18:00:36Z")
No, this looks backwards, after looking the recent examples, it is more clear that conspiracy theories thrive because there is distrust with the government on the CT circles. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-need-trust-in-government-in-order-to-thrive/658688/8 "2013-05-18T18:04:21Z")
> [@harmonicamoon](#): > > For example, recently an elected official died in a helicopter crash here in Mexico. **No one** thought the crash was due to pilot error, faulty part, or faulty maintenance. **Everyone knew** it was an assassination. When a subsequent investigation turned up nothing their view was reenforced. > This happens in the US, and those trusting (in government) think pilot error, etc. The CT’s claim assassination, and when the investigation turns up nothing, they claim coverup. These theories exist because there is trust in government. When there is no trust in government they are called events. It might appear to be semantics, but I feel it is a little deeper. What you’re saying is that everyone in Mexico is a CTist. You don’t believe pilot error, faulty parts, or faulty maintenance was involved in a helicopter crash because you trust government. You believe it because it is likely to be true, and lacking evidence to the contrary you don’t believe in an alternative. The alternative in Mexico may be more likely than here in the US, so they may tend to get swayed more in that direction, so you will have more CTists there. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-need-trust-in-government-in-order-to-thrive/658688/9 "2013-05-18T18:12:52Z")
I think what the OP is saying is that CTers have trust in the _power_ of government rather than trust in the goodwill of government. To believe, for example, that the moon landings were a hoax, you must have enormous faith in the ability of government to fabricate evidence and coerce the total and complete silence and cooperation of thousands of people. I wouldn’t use the word “trust” in this context, but I think that’s what the OP means. ---
**Author:** ![harmonicamoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@harmonicamoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harmonicamoon)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-need-trust-in-government-in-order-to-thrive/658688/10 "2013-05-18T18:53:00Z")
As already stated there are two groups: Those who have trust in the government, and those who don’t. Those who have trust, refer to what comes out of the mouth of the CTist, as a theory. Whereas the CTist probably refers to it as the truth. Therefore, CT’s can only exist because there are people who have trust in the government. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-need-trust-in-government-in-order-to-thrive/658688/11 "2013-05-18T20:35:25Z")
> [@harmonicamoon](#): > > As already stated there are two groups: Those who have trust in the government, and those who don’t. Those who have trust, refer to what comes out of the mouth of the CTist, as a theory. Whereas the CTist probably refers to it as the truth. Therefore, CT’s can only exist because there are people who have trust in the government. That makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-need-trust-in-government-in-order-to-thrive/658688/12 "2013-05-18T20:56:55Z")
Not logical at all, it looks like an Association Fallacy. Conspiracies can happen outside of government, like the conspiracy the Church of Scientology committed against US author and journalist Paulette Cooper. > **[Operation Freakout](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Freakout)** > > Operation Freakout, also known as Operation PC Freakout, was a Church of Scientology covert plan intended to have the U.S. author and journalist Paulette Cooper imprisoned or committed to a psychiatric hospital. The plan, undertaken in 1976 following years of church-initiated lawsuits and covert harassment, was meant to eliminate the perceived threat that Cooper posed to the church and obtain revenge for her publication in 1971 of a highly critical book, The Scandal of Scientology. The Federa... Also, there was the one the same Church attempted against the government, Operation Snow White > **[Operation Snow White](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White)** > > Operation Snow White was a criminal conspiracy by the Church of Scientology during the 1970s to purge unfavorable records about Scientology and its founder, L. Ron Hubbard. This project included a series of infiltrations into and thefts from 136 government agencies, foreign embassies and consulates, as well as private organizations critical of Scientology, carried out by Church members in more than 30 countries. It was one of the largest infiltrations of the United States government in history ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-need-trust-in-government-in-order-to-thrive/658688/13 "2013-05-18T21:27:49Z")
> [@harmonicamoon](#): > > For example, recently an elected official died in a helicopter crash here in Mexico. **No one** thought the crash was due to pilot error, faulty part, or faulty maintenance. **Everyone knew** it was an assassination. When a subsequent investigation turned up nothing their view was reenforced. > This happens in the US, and those trusting (in government) think pilot error, etc. The CT’s claim assassination, and when the investigation turns up nothing, they claim coverup. These theories exist because there is trust in government. When there is no trust in government they are called events. It might appear to be semantics, but I feel it is a little deeper. There are no accidental helicopter crashes in Mexico? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-need-trust-in-government-in-order-to-thrive/658688/14 "2013-05-18T21:42:37Z")
So if I understand it right, the OP is saying that when the public as a matter of course will reject right off the bat any non-nefarious explanation, it’s \*not \*a “Conspiracy Theory”? That it can only be a “Conspiracy Theory” if there exists a significant faction that does accept the official story? :dubious: And believe me, Latin America is rife with people who believe in Conspiracy Theories, grand and petty alike. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-need-trust-in-government-in-order-to-thrive/658688/15 "2013-05-18T22:05:57Z")
I think **harmonicamoon** is saying that Mexico is so overwhelmingly corrupt, it is not possible for any act of violence or other societally unsettling occurrence to be anything other than a conspiracy to benefit Them, therefore everyone just knows it was Them, so they aren’t really conspiracy theorists. Whereas not everyone in the U.S. is that cucamonga, so conspiracy theories can exist. The only defect with this compelling logic :dubious: are that plenty of people in the U.S. view all such events through the prism of conspiratorial thinking (just like in Mexico), and regardless of what percentage of the populace subscribes to nutbar conspiracies, they’re still nutbar conspiracies and not reality unless proven to exist. If Mexicans embrace fewer conspiracy theories, it’s because they have [a limited palette of events](http://www.insightcrime.org/news-analysis/mexicos-top-10-narco-conspiracy-theories) to choose from compared to the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-need-trust-in-government-in-order-to-thrive/658688/16 "2013-05-18T22:09:24Z")
> [@harmonicamoon](#): > > As already stated there are two groups: Those who have trust in the government, and those who don’t. Those who have trust, refer to what comes out of the mouth of the CTist, as a theory. Whereas the CTist probably refers to it as the truth. Therefore, CT’s can only exist because there are people who have trust in the government. Are you using some alternative definitions of the words “trust,” “government,” “CT,” and “two?” Because I cannot make heads or tails of what you’re saying. In any case, the number one area of the world (IMHO) for conspiracy theories is the Middle East. There are tons of people there who simply believe crazy shit – if it floods somewhere, it isn’t an act of nature, it’s that the Zionists have a weather control machine. Every new strain of the flu is a sinister plot for a genocide of Palestinians. The sun rose today, and that’s because the local government has the goods on the god that pulls the firey chariot across the sky. The whole region is lousy with nutty beliefs that are taken seriously. And governments are much less popular there than the government is in Mexico. Therefore, you’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-need-trust-in-government-in-order-to-thrive/658688/17 "2013-05-18T22:29:05Z")
Having re-read the OP, I’m now interpreting it to mean that EVERYONE in Mexico is a conspiracy theorist. No one believes the government, any mundane explanation it makes about events is universally disbelieved, so naturally all these explanations are parts of conspiracies to cover up the truth. So the conclusion by the OP is utterly wrong, by the OP’s own logic. ---
**Author:** ![harmonicamoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@harmonicamoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harmonicamoon)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-need-trust-in-government-in-order-to-thrive/658688/18 "2013-05-18T22:43:04Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I think **harmonicamoon** is saying that Mexico is so overwhelmingly corrupt, it is not possible for any act of violence or other societally unsettling occurrence to be anything other than a conspiracy to benefit Them, therefore everyone just knows it was Them, so they aren’t really conspiracy theorists. Whereas not everyone in the U.S. is that cucamonga, so conspiracy theories can exist. > > The only defect with this compelling logic :dubious: are that plenty of people in the U.S. view all such events through the prism of conspiratorial thinking (just like in Mexico), and regardless of what percentage of the populace subscribes to nutbar conspiracies, they’re still nutbar conspiracies and not reality unless proven to exist. > > If Mexicans embrace fewer conspiracy theories, it’s because they have [a limited palette of events](http://www.insightcrime.org/news-analysis/mexicos-top-10-narco-conspiracy-theories) to choose from compared to the United States. Gracias Jackmannii for understanding my less than perfect English. I am just trying to understand the addiction for CTs that seems to exist in the US. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-need-trust-in-government-in-order-to-thrive/658688/19 "2013-05-19T02:47:26Z")
> [@harmonicamoon](#): > > What think ye? I think there are probably a cultural factor involved in conspiracy theories. As far as I can tell, they’re far less common and widespread over here than in the USA, while, for instance, urban legends (which share some similarities with conspiracy theories) seem equally common. What could be this cultural factor? I wouldn’t know. But it’s not confidence in the government, since amongst western nations, Americans are probably on average those who trust their government the less. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-need-trust-in-government-in-order-to-thrive/658688/20 "2013-05-20T10:31:39Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Having re-read the OP, I’m now interpreting it to mean that EVERYONE in Mexico is a conspiracy theorist. No one believes the government, any mundane explanation it makes about events is universally disbelieved, so naturally all these explanations are parts of conspiracies to cover up the truth. > > So the conclusion by the OP is utterly wrong, by the OP’s own logic. No, because if everyone is a conspiracy theorist, there’s no outside group to condemn them for being such. Since conspiracy theorist is a term of derision, it can’t exist without to do the deriding. It’s not that complicated–it’s the same basic idea of the yin and yang–that good needs evil to know that it is good. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-need-trust-in-government-in-order-to-thrive/658688.md?page=2)