# Conspiracy theorists who target survivors of gun massacres. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 20, 2016, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists-who-target-survivors-of-gun-massacres/757891 "2016-06-20T15:41:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists-who-target-survivors-of-gun-massacres/757891/1 "2016-06-20T15:41:31Z")
[http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/real-time/Philly-Orlando-shooting-survivor-Patience-Carter-now-fighting-off-conspiracy-theorists-crisis-actor.html](http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/real-time/Philly-Orlando-shooting-survivor-Patience-Carter-now-fighting-off-conspiracy-theorists-crisis-actor.html) > [@](#): > > A Philadelphia native and Fox 29 intern who survived the Orlando mass shooting has disputed claims on social media that she was a “crisis actor” for the station, and was not actually at Pulse nightclub when the incident occurred. > > Patience Carter, who was shot in the right leg but survived the shooting that claimed 49 lives, posted on Instagram Friday a picture of her cast and thanked Orlando Hospital workers and her supporters. She added she was discharged from the hospital. > > Carter also thanked “skeptics” who believe she wasn’t at the shooting and claim she is posing as a “crisis actor” for Fox 29. “It’s your outrageous insensitivity that makes me want to heal even faster, and grow even stronger,” she wrote. It’s now become predicable that every time we have one of these incidents these assholes come crawling out of their mothers’ basements to target and harass survivors, witnesses, and grieving families. As if the victims haven’t already suffered enough, they now also have to put up with this bullshit. Goddammit! These people have suffered and are still suffering but you idiots always have to make things worse with your nonsensical “sleuthing” for imagined clues that they’re all “crisis actors”. What the fuck is wrong with all of you? Are your lives so pitiful that you have to try to set yourself above everyone else by playing the daring iconoclastic blogger trying to save the world from Illuminati or Bilderbergers or Masons or whoever the fuck you think is so fucking powerful that they can pull off such outrageous hoaxes and never get caught? These near omnipotent plotters who apparently can’t figure out that they shouldn’t use the same actors for every incident? These gods of propaganda and manipulation who do this repeatedly without ever following through with whatever the fuck it is that they’re trying to achieve? Grow the fuck up, get a grip on reality, and leave these poor people alone! ---
**Author:** ![Azeotrope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/0ea827/32.png) [@Azeotrope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azeotrope)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists-who-target-survivors-of-gun-massacres/757891/2 "2016-06-20T16:22:26Z")
Jesus fuck. Back in April, [Cracked ran an article about a man whose son was killed at Sandy Hook](http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-2232-my-son-died-at-sandy-hook-conspiracy-nuts-think-im-lying.html) and the nutjobs who harass these poor people day in and day out. What the hell is wrong with these people, that it’s more important to be “right” than to be a decent human being? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists-who-target-survivors-of-gun-massacres/757891/3 "2016-06-20T17:00:40Z")
In a Just World, we would be able to cull these losers from society. ---
**Author:** ![Memnon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Memnon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Memnon)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists-who-target-survivors-of-gun-massacres/757891/4 "2016-06-20T17:37:41Z")
Forgive my ignorance, but what is a “crisis actor”? ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists-who-target-survivors-of-gun-massacres/757891/5 "2016-06-20T17:45:43Z")
> [@Tithonus](#): > > Forgive my ignorance, but what is a “crisis actor”? Oh, remember all the crying parents after Sandy Hook? CTs claim all of them are crisis actors and their kids are really alive. Same goes for the surviving kids you saw walk out of the school. They’re all paid by the government. (Yeah, I know. Deep breaths) And a lot of these idiots have their own kids and families. [shudders with anger] ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists-who-target-survivors-of-gun-massacres/757891/6 "2016-06-20T18:22:07Z")
> [@Azeotrope](#): > > Jesus fuck. Back in April, [Cracked ran an article about a man whose son was killed at Sandy Hook](http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-2232-my-son-died-at-sandy-hook-conspiracy-nuts-think-im-lying.html) and the nutjobs who harass these poor people day in and day out. > > What the hell is wrong with these people, that it’s more important to be “right” than to be a decent human being? So, the hoaxers are “fighting the Illuminati” :sigh: It is interesting that the alleged Democratic HQ hacker from Russia also claims to be fighting the same. The very scary thing is that there is very little to separate the current “false flag” anti gun conspiracy nuts that use the Illuminati as the bogey man from even worse people, such as Neo- Nazis and anti-Semites (The father from the article and his murdered kid were Jewish). IMHO there is a dog whistle here, the bigots are using the imaginary Illuminati threat to sound goofy and relatively harmless to many, instead of revealing the very scary ulterior motives that they really have. [http://skepdic.com/illuminati.html](http://skepdic.com/illuminati.html) > [@](#): > > The Illuminati were members of a secret society in Bavaria in the late 18th century. They had a political agenda that included republicanism and abolition of monarchies, which they tried to institute by means of subterfuge, secrecy, and conspiracy, including the infiltration of other organizations. They fancied themselves to be “enlightened” but they had little success and were destroyed within fifteen years of their origin (Pipes 1997). > > Paranoid conspiracy theorists (PCTs) believe the Illuminati cabal still exists, either in its original form or as a paradigm for later cabals. Many PCTs believe “that large Jewish banking families have been orchestrating various political revolutions and machinations throughout Europe and America since the late eighteenth century, with the ultimate aim of bringing about a satanic New World Order.”\* What George Bush was talking about in his state of the union address in 1991 was no less than the establishment of a single world government with the anti-Christ (who some say is Bill Clinton (or is he a decoy?), but could be Pat Robertson or George W. Bush or Barack Obama) at its head. > > > [@](#): > > > > ``` > > In the paranoid mind, the Illuminati succeeded in their goals, and have now infiltrated every government and every aspect of society. They are responsible for every evil and every unjust act that ever occurs anywhere; the fact that absolutely no evidence of their existence can be found only serves to make them stronger and more frightening. They are the demon in the closet, and will probably never disappear from the paranoid fantasy world of right-wing conspiracy theorists. > > --New England Skeptical Society > > > > ``` > > There are several “sects” of PCTs. Among the more popular are the militant Christian fundamentalist branch and the UFO/alien branch. They each think the others are evil or nuts but their paranoia has the same focus: the end is near. > > the Illuminati and the anti-Christ > > [According to the nuts] The Illuminati are hastening the coming of the anti-Christ and the end of the world. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists-who-target-survivors-of-gun-massacres/757891/7 "2016-06-20T18:31:04Z")
I don’t know that they actually think it’s the Illuminati. I just used that in my rant as a stereotypical example of the kind of thinking involved here. I think a lot of them think it’s the government or, apparently, the Jews. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists-who-target-survivors-of-gun-massacres/757891/8 "2016-06-20T18:42:15Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I don’t know that they actually think it’s the Illuminati. I just used that in my rant as a stereotypical example of the kind of thinking involved here. I think a lot of them think it’s the government or, apparently, the Jews. I referred to the Illuminati not because of what you said in the OP, I referred to the link from Cracked that I replied to: > [@](#): > > How long do you think it takes conspiracy theorists to turn nasty after a national tragedy? A year? A month? “They emerged immediately,” says Pozner. **First on the scene was Jonathan Lee Riches, an ex-con infamous for filing countless frivolous lawsuits. In a YouTube video posted two days after the shooting, he argued that Lanza had been mind-controlled by the Illuminati.** “[He] left voice mails for Nancy Lanza [Adam’s mother, whom he murdered] and Ryan Lanza [Adam’s brother] on December 14. On December 16, Riches descended upon Newtown and pretended to be a relative of Adam Lanza. He got arrested, but he made videos right away about how it was a conspiracy to take away civil liberties.” And yes, as skeptical groups report there is a lot of cross pollination between bigots and conspiracy theories of this kind. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists-who-target-survivors-of-gun-massacres/757891/9 "2016-06-20T19:06:54Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > In a Just World, we would be able to cull these losers from society. Or, at the very least, they’d put themselves in position for a richly deserved punch in the nose and an even more richly deserved back of the hand from the legal system. Hey, it worked for Bart Sibrel when he was stupid enough to get in Buzz Aldrin’s face. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists-who-target-survivors-of-gun-massacres/757891/10 "2016-06-20T19:14:42Z")
**davidm** I wanted to add that my point was that the targets are indeed the Jews and the government too, but that the swill we are talking about are “smart” enough to cover their bigotry by using the imaginary Illuminati. (IOW: I agree with you, I also suspect that they know that the Illuminati is invoked to distract) IMHO there is another reason the followers of that idiotic conspiracy theory refer to the Illuminati. A good number of the followers they get (mercifully, not many in comparison to the whole population) would be turned off right away if the proponents would show to all the anti-Semite or Neo Nazi ideals that they have. So most of the followers are crazy already to blame the Illuminati for all the problems of the world or they think that they are just following discordians. They at least are not so crazy to be bigots or racists, but history shows that living in that kind of information bubble eventually leads the marks to fall for the racism and bigotry behind all. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists-who-target-survivors-of-gun-massacres/757891/11 "2016-06-20T21:18:58Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Or, at the very least, they’d put themselves in position for a richly deserved punch in the nose and an even more richly deserved back of the hand from the legal system. Hey, it worked for Bart Sibrel when he was stupid enough to get in Buzz Aldrin’s face. Nah, a punch won’t do. San Bernardino and Orlando both involved people I **know**. In Orlando, luckily, it was tangential involvement: a former student goes to that club often. Wasn’t there that night, Thank Og. As for San Bernardino…well, if you take a look at the shootout scene, you will see one shot-to-shit police vehicle right behind the shooter’s vehicle. That colander was driven by the father of a former Team Captain of mine, and a wonderful human being. Andy got away without a scratch, but these things aren’t just “events that happen to other people.” I therefore get a mite testy when some no-account mouth-breather tells me it was all an act. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists-who-target-survivors-of-gun-massacres/757891/12 "2016-06-20T21:51:09Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Nah, a punch won’t do. > > San Bernardino and Orlando both involved people I **know**. In Orlando, luckily, it was tangential involvement: a former student goes to that club often. Wasn’t there that night, Thank Og. As for San Bernardino…well, if you take a look at the shootout scene, you will see one shot-to-shit police vehicle right behind the shooter’s vehicle. That colander was driven by the father of a former Team Captain of mine, and a wonderful human being. Andy got away without a scratch, but these things aren’t just “events that happen to other people.” I therefore get a mite testy when some no-account mouth-breather tells me it was all an act. :mad: Sure, but how do we know that you’re not a paid actor? I see clues in your posting style, like the random bolding of words, and the lighting and shadows are off, and I think I’ve seen some of the same words in other posts… ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists-who-target-survivors-of-gun-massacres/757891/13 "2016-06-21T07:07:53Z")
This is one of the sad side-effects of social media. 25 years ago if there was a massacre and you wanted to harass the victims, you really couldn’t find as means to track them down and do so so you’d be forced to vent your misguided conspiracy theory outrage in some kook newsletter read by 50 other assholes. Relatively harmless. Now, you can post your crazy online, get thousands of people to read it, and even track down the victims and harass them and have your readers harass them via email, Twitter, Facebook, however you can track them down. Its nuts! ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists-who-target-survivors-of-gun-massacres/757891/14 "2016-06-21T13:44:49Z")
These people are the shits of the universe, the clinging turds we’d all do well to wipe off. They had an article recently about the famous 9/11 truther who realized what a douchebag he was being and came forward boldly about it, and I thought, that’s still not enough to make up for your assholishness, your goddamn ignorance. What convinced him? He talked to one of the widows. And five truthers went and only he came back convinced he was wrong. People harassed the guy who sheltered some of the Sandy Hook kids in his house…hang on… > **[This man helped save six children, is now getting harassed for it](https://www.salon.com/2013/01/15/this_man_helped_save_six_children_is_now_getting_harassed_for_it/)** > > Gene Rosen sheltered six kids during the Sandy Hook massacre. Now he's become a target of conspiracy theorists Makes you positively weep for humanity. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists-who-target-survivors-of-gun-massacres/757891/15 "2016-06-21T13:55:38Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > This is one of the sad side-effects of social media. > > 25 years ago if there was a massacre and you wanted to harass the victims, you really couldn’t find as means to track them down and do so so you’d be forced to vent your misguided conspiracy theory outrage in some kook newsletter read by 50 other assholes. Relatively harmless. > > Now, you can post your crazy online, get thousands of people to read it, and even track down the victims and harass them and have your readers harass them via email, Twitter, Facebook, however you can track them down. Its nuts! Yeah pretty much. Social media spotlights how many bat shit crazy people there are. Those that are crazy but would never harm anyone physically used to be the weird guy you used to see muttering to himself as he walked down the street. Now he hears Alex Jones talk about false flags and he gets to find a bunch of other loonies. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists-who-target-survivors-of-gun-massacres/757891/16 "2016-06-22T10:40:41Z")
For those unaware, [this](https://youtu.be/1EArjNnrpbk) is a crisis actor. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists-who-target-survivors-of-gun-massacres/757891/17 "2016-06-22T12:47:41Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > For those unaware, [this](https://youtu.be/1EArjNnrpbk) is a crisis actor. I’m trying to decide if you’re serious or not. That guy could simply be callous or suffering from stage fright or any number of things. Inappropiate laughing or smiling can have physical or emotional causes. > **[Healthgrades Health Library](https://www.healthgrades.com/healthguides/top-health-stories)** > > Browse comprehensive health information, interactive quizzes, appointment guides, Q&As, videos and more for hundreds of diseases, conditions and procedures. This is exactly the kind of silly “clue” that these people use to attempt to justify their baseless beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists-who-target-survivors-of-gun-massacres/757891/18 "2016-06-22T13:15:42Z")
They need to believe that the people they see after a tragedy are faking it, otherwise they will recognize that they (the conspiracy theorists) are thoroughly reprehensible people harassing survivors. And no one wants to believe that they are the bad guys in a situation. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists-who-target-survivors-of-gun-massacres/757891/19 "2016-06-22T13:56:49Z")
It’s denial. One of the things that the dad posted about in that Cracked article was most of the people who were harassing him were parents of children themselves, and it was a sort of desperate denial that someone could look a six year old child in the eyes and murder him. So if it never happened, if it was fake, they didn’t have to worry about it. Also when are we as a people going to quit judging people’s grief? Everyone grieves in certain ways but if we don’t prostrate ourselves sobbing before the cameras every moment we are instantly judged. Husbands and wives who don’t cry and try to have some modicum of dignity are judged to be guilty immediately. If you have a moment of laughter you are clearly a crisis actor. If you hire a lawyer immediately - even though that is absolutely the prudent thing to do, and the smartest - you are judged to be guilty. I read Gone Girl as an indictment on our society, that we all rush to judgment as soon as we hear anything. I wish loss on no one, but I don’t think you can guarantee how you will act when you have something completely heartrending and terrifying happen to you. And I don’t begrudge that guy for a moment for finding something to laugh at at such a horrible tragedy. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists-who-target-survivors-of-gun-massacres/757891/20 "2016-06-22T14:17:49Z")
> [@Azeotrope](#): > > Jesus fuck. Back in April, [Cracked ran an article about a man whose son was killed at Sandy Hook](http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-2232-my-son-died-at-sandy-hook-conspiracy-nuts-think-im-lying.html) and the nutjobs who harass these poor people day in and day out. > > What the hell is wrong with these people, that it’s more important to be “right” than to be a decent human being? In my experience dealing with a subset of this sort of people there are at least two personalities at work, at the bottom those obviously suffering from some level of schizoid paranoia, these are the ones that actively generate bullshit, theories and “facts”; then there are the stupid narcissists, that get a rush from thinking themselves smarter than the “sheeple” by believing The Real Truth. While the first group can’t be convinced they are wrong because they are out in Cuckoo Land the second can’t be convinced they are wrong because then they’d have to admit to themselves that they are not nearly as smart as they believe themselves to be, saying “I was wrong” is an existential threat and can’t be contemplated. Sooner or later though, the second type start to act like the first type, after working themselves up into a state of neurosis through their constant refusal to accept reason or evidence against their beliefs and the in-group/out-group dynamic they get into in the process. Then of course there are those who just cynically exploit and perpetuate the situation for their own benefit, be it for financial gain (by selling books, “documentaries”, raising money for private investigations or whatnot), or simply for the exposure they receive from their “activism”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists-who-target-survivors-of-gun-massacres/757891.md?page=2)