# Conspiracy Theorists
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists/990788
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [September 27, 2023, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists/990788 "2023-09-27T20:27:15Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Guapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guapo)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2023, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists/990788/1 "2023-09-27T20:27:15Z")
I had a bad day yesterday. First my sister said that she is supporting RFK Jr, then a person I have recently have become friends with told me he “has questions” about 9/11: specifically that the Pentagon may have been hit with a missile rather than a plane because they didn’t find any plane debris.
I got really pissed off and started listing all the people that could corroborate the plane crash. The families of the victims, the gate agents who checked boarding passes, the baggage handlers that loaded the plane, the air traffic controllers, the parking lot attendees who found cars not picked up when passengers didn’t return, the hotels and rental car agencies that didn’t have people show up for their reservations, the TSA agents that saw the victims pass through security, the colleagues of the flight crew that died, the first responders who did find plane debris along with human remains, and so on. It is just such a phenomenally stupid position to hold that I can’t even.
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### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2023, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists/990788/2 "2023-09-27T20:29:33Z")
But they don’t care.
The hallmark of a CTer is that they know more and better than you. That’s all they have, while all you have is facts.
Guess which wins in their mind?
It’s not worth getting excited over, if that’s possible. But it’s not, sorry.
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### Author:  [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2023, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists/990788/3 "2023-09-27T20:37:46Z")
> [@Guapo](#):
>
> specifically that the Pentagon may have been hit with a missile rather than a plane because they didn’t find any plane debris.
Not to mention, the people at the Pentagon who did find plane debris. I know one such person personally, and he gets quite irate at these people who claim he wasn’t holding a piece of an airplane that day.
He’s retired Air Force, of course.
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### Author:  [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2023, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists/990788/4 "2023-09-27T20:44:21Z")
> [@Horatius](#):
>
> I know one such person personally, and he gets quite irate at these people who claim he wasn’t holding a piece of an airplane that day.
I think anyone who was _there_ should get a free pass to punch CTers in the face, based on the Buzz Aldrin precedent.
[Buzz Aldrin punches moon landing conspiracy theorist](https://repo.library.stonybrook.edu/xmlui/handle/11401/8438)
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### Author:  [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2023, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists/990788/5 "2023-09-27T21:05:13Z")
It seems to be a universal phenomenon and worthy of a proper study - a conspiracy theory theory. A dissertation maybe?
I was just watching a documentary about Natascha Kampusch who was kidnapped from the street in Vienna on March 2, 1998, by Wolfgang Priklopil as she made her way to school.
She was kept mostly in a cellar/dungeon for eight years. After she escaped, some newspaper reporters, a senior policeman and a politician were firmly convinced that, somehow, she was complicit. She must have had a baby and/or her mother was also involved. None of this was true.
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### Author:  [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2023, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists/990788/6 "2023-09-27T21:24:09Z")
For criminy’s sake, there’s a famous photo at the Pentagon which shows a chunk of wreckage, in American Airlines livery!
[ ](https://images05.military.com/sites/default/files/styles/full/public/2021-09/pentagon-911-1200-1.jpg?itok=59V_9kAk)
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### Author:  [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2023, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists/990788/7 "2023-09-27T21:28:42Z")
Imagine being one of the Kennedys today. Thanks to JFK and RFK, you are part of what has been America’s most revered political family. Now you must watch as your most prominent living relative flushes the remaining mystique away with his conspiracy nonsense.
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### Author:  [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2023, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists/990788/8 "2023-09-27T22:30:50Z")
Makes me think of a GD thread I started once.
> [@Conspiracy theories harmless fun or not?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theories-harmless-fun-or-not/812438):
>
> In [the CS thread on the death of Art Bell](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=852988) I’ve been hammering on my utter contempt for the man (and for others who host conspiracy theory shows.) So I’ll ask here: Is someone who provides a forum to advertize conspiracy theories who doesn’t believe the theories themselves morally culpable for the harm done to the lives of those who do believe those conspiracy theories, or to the people those believers then harass, threaten, or harm? Or are they merely providing harmless entertainment and bear n…
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### Author:  [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2023, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists/990788/9 "2023-09-27T23:00:51Z")
Governments are indeed capable of great evil. They are far more capable of great incompetence.
The number of people required to pull off these conspiracies, I am comforted by the fact the government would neither be able to pull it off nor keep all the parties from talking, especially to prosecutors while seeking a deal.
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### Author:  [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2023, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists/990788/10 "2023-09-27T23:31:16Z")
> [@Guapo](#):
>
> TSA agents that saw the victims pass through security
OK, now I know you are lying! The TSA wasn’t created until Nov 2001! They couldn’t have seen anybody! Therefore, you’re entire argument is invalid! I win!
Ahem… back to reality.
I read a book by three guys that spend like a month at sea on a capsized trimaran. When they finally ended up drifting onto land, people claimed they faked the whole thing. Even the coating of barnacles on the _upper_ surface of the boat did not convince some.
I really think there should be a study of why some people believe what they want and dismiss facts. Is it a mental illness?
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### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2023, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists/990788/11 "2023-09-28T00:23:35Z")
> [@bob\_2](#):
>
> It seems to be a universal phenomenon and worthy of a proper study - a conspiracy theory theory. A dissertation maybe?
There must be a conspiracy to hide all the [papers](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=conspiracy+theories) that have been published on conspiracy theories. 🕵️♂️ 😱 🤔
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2023, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists/990788/12 "2023-09-28T00:40:33Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#):
>
> I really think there should be a study of why some people believe what they want and dismiss facts. Is it a mental illness?
I think it originates in intellectual inadequacy. Learning facts takes a lot of time and effort. It’s a lot easier to just dismiss the facts as fake and replace them with pseudo-facts you can learn in ten minutes by watching a YouTube video.
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### Author:  [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2023, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists/990788/13 "2023-09-28T00:45:05Z")
Yeah. All maganut listens to is infowars. I don’t think theres a conspiracy he Doesn’t believe; yes, Michelle O is really a man.
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### Author:  [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2023, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists/990788/14 "2023-09-28T00:52:27Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#):
>
> Governments are indeed capable of great evil. They are far more capable of great incompetence.
>
> The number of people required to pull off these conspiracies, I am comforted by the fact the government would neither be able to pull it off nor keep all the parties from talking, especially to prosecutors while seeking a deal.
This, there is a lot going around right now about the DOJ and the FBI working with the government. If it is true it will all fall apart for this reason. If it is not true, people just need to accept it. The only other possibility is that if these depts are indeed political it is because of their hatred for the other side. That might not leave much of a trail.
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### Author:  [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2023, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists/990788/15 "2023-09-28T00:57:57Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#):
>
> For criminy’s sake, there’s a famous photo at the Pentagon which shows a chunk of wreckage, in American Airlines livery!
Clearly it was planted there to further the conspiracy. See? Evidence of what actually happened is just further evidence of a conspiracy!
On a more serious note, personally I find the notion that so many people would have to keep quiet about it and that such a secret couldn’t be kept by so many people to be among the weakest proofs of a conspiracy being untrue. Governments have kept major events involving many thousands of actors secret from the public for multiple decades. The [Slapton Sands](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_Tiger) disaster remained hidden from the public until 1988, 44 years after it happened, and the 749 servicemen killed in it were lumped in with the rolls of those killed in the Normandy campaign. That the Allies had broken [German and Japanese cyphers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra) during WWII was a secret shared by thousands, but remained unknown to the public at large until 1973/74.
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#):
>
> This, there is a lot going around right now about the DOJ and the FBI working with the government.
You really have no idea just how ridiculous and unhinged this sounds, do you? Something something Deep State something something Biden Crime Family. I know this must come as quite a shocker to you, but the DOJ and the FBI not only work with the government all the time, but it’s also impossible for them to not to do so. You see, and hold onto your hat, but they’re part of the government. The call is coming from inside the house!
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### Author:  [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2023, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists/990788/16 "2023-09-28T01:02:20Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#):
>
> The only other possibility is that if these depts are indeed political it is because of their hatred for the other side. That might not leave much of a trail.
You’ve cracked the code! Conspiracy theories are _only_ true if there is _hatred for the **other** side_. Because hatred doesn’t leave much of a trail.
Dumbass.
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### Author:  [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2023, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists/990788/17 "2023-09-28T07:47:24Z")
> [@Dissonance](#):
>
> The [Slapton Sands](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_Tiger) disaster remained hidden from the public until 1988, 44 years after it happened, and the 749 servicemen killed in it were lumped in with the rolls of those killed in the Normandy campaign. That the Allies had broken [German and Japanese cyphers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra) during WWII was a secret shared by thousands, but remained unknown to the public at large until 1973/74.
I hadn’t heard of the Slapton Sands one, but this, and the codebreaking, tells us a lot about what it takes to keep such secrets.
> Because of the impending invasion of Normandy, the incident was under the strictest secrecy at the time and was only minimally reported afterwards.
These were war-time events, in which everyone involved knew they had to be kept secret, for valid military reasons. They were motivated enough to go fight a war, so it wouldn’t take much for them to be motivated to just keep their mouths shut.
Would that hold true for any of the big “conspiracy theories”? What is the valid military reason to keep quiet about “9/11 was an inside job”? What would motivate people to keep quiet about “Pizza parlour pedophiles”? This is why they eventually have to fall back on literal magic, claiming that they’re all Satanists conducting evil rituals, because without magic, there’s no way _everyone_ involved would keep quiet about these things.
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### Author:  [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2023, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists/990788/18 "2023-09-28T09:46:27Z")
> [@Dissonance](#):
>
> The [Slapton Sands](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_Tiger) disaster remained hidden from the public until 1988, 44 years after it happened, and the 749 servicemen killed in it were lumped in with the rolls of those killed in the Normandy campaign.
That was a different era and during a war when all the media conformed to the government line.
The disastrous rehearsal was only a month or so prior to the D-Day landings. It could not be reported at the time because of the embargo on any information that may reveal the intended landing sites. Later on, it was eclipsed by the news of D-Day itself and the 4,415 who lost their lives there.
This was an era where secrecy was ingrained and there was no such thing as social media. It is specious to compare it with the post-internet age.
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### Author:  [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2023, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists/990788/19 "2023-09-28T10:22:11Z")
Ah, but can you prove birds are real animals? Can you? Not without proof! [https://birdsarentreal.com/](https://birdsarentreal.com/)
To note: it’s a joke conspiracy and neither I nor the person who came up with the idea believe that birds are tiny spy drones.
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### Author:  [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2023, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conspiracy-theorists/990788/20 "2023-09-28T12:50:23Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#):
>
> > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#):
> >
> > I really think there should be a study of why some people believe what they want and dismiss facts. Is it a mental illness?
>
> I think it originates in intellectual inadequacy. Learning facts takes a lot of time and effort. It’s a lot easier to just dismiss the facts as fake and replace them with pseudo-facts you can learn in ten minutes by watching a YouTube video.
This may be true for a percentage of CTers, but I’ve known several people who were smart enough to know better, but cling to the CT. I think that it’s a reaction to a general feeling of being left out, of feeling like they are outsiders to society in some way, and are not being considered as important or taken as seriously as they feel they should be. So they grab onto conspiracy theories as a way to feel like they have inside knowledge that the ‘sheeple’ just don’t get; they are part of an ‘elite’ class: the true insiders.
In their case it’s not that they’re too dumb or too lazy to learn and accept the true facts, it’s the fact that if they do, they lose that elite status; that feeling of being part of an insider’s club. It’s actually, in many ways, more mentally challenging and exhausting to insist on things that just aren’t true than to just accept the facts before your eyes. It takes some amazing mental gymnastics to say 'sure, that might _ **seem** _ to be true, but it’s not, because (complicated rationalization).
Anyone who thinks it’s easier to believe the CT than the actual reality should watch the flat earth CTer documentary ‘Behind the Curve’. It’s fascinating what mental backflips they do to try to explain why their ‘scientific’ experiments to prove that the earth is flat keep failing.
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