Constitution 2.0

Nothing initially, but you would only get away with that once and then it would become much more difficult for the President to ever count on the legislator he screwed to support any of his legislation ever again.

Nothing. Other than public opinion and common sense. I thought people might have issues along this line, but if you look around the world this authority isn’t unheard of…while the UK’s Parliament and the Canadian Parliament are technically dissolved by the Head of State in reality of course the PMs technically are the ones who do it. What stopped David Cameron from asking the Queen to dissolve Parliament because he wasn’t happy that the Tories only attained a minority government? Why didn’t he just have a do over in the hope that they won an outright majority?

Most likely because he might lose ground not gain it, and the very act itself so quickly and for such a purpose would be politically unpopular. The public wouldn’t stand for a President dissolving the House every few weeks.

There was a time when the British monarch was an active constitutional monarch (essentially from the time of the restoration up through George III or so), and while sometimes they ruled for long periods of time without a Parliament because they continually had elections go against them (Charles II finished out his reign that way), by and large they were often cowed by the pressure of the Parliament because they needed a working legislature to govern the country. Same thing for a President, they can’t operate the country for very long if they are constantly dismissing the House. It just would not be nearly the concern you’re thinking about.

It’s sort of like saying, “What’s stopping the President from granting amnesty to every person in Federal prison?” Nothing. The SCOTUS has explicitly stated the pardon power is more or less absolute in terms of Federal crimes, it can be a general, sweeping amnesty (and has been used that way.) What stops the President from doing that is mostly the fact that is the most difficult job in the world to obtain and only a crazy person would behave that way, so the election process is a very strong safeguard against that. Secondly the political response would be immense.

If the legislator in question is one of the President’s opponents, considering the way things are working these days, the chance of the legislator ever supporting the President’s proposed legislation are vanishingly small anyway. Cutting money going to a congressman’s district would take away the congressman’s “look at all the money I brought here!” claim in the next election cycle.

As for the dissolution of congress, I agree that people may well get ticked off about repeated dissolutions, but these days I’m thinking “most outrageous scenario.” I don’t think exercising a power specifically given to the President could be the basis for his impeachment.

How would impeachment work in this system? Could a President dissolve a House that was beginning or into impeachment proceedings?

This could be kind of amusing - a 5% change in the population of Wyoming having a ripple effect across the entire Union. And if there’s a natural disaster or a economic exodus that reduces the population of Wyoming, congress would shrink accordingly.

Sure, but I think it is still an inherently fairer system than one which fixes the number at 435 (which is just a matter of statute currently, you do not even need to alter the constitution to change the number of representatives), because this system disproportionately deprives larger states of their fair share of House Reps.

The smallest State essentially has to have one Rep, so logically the easiest way without getting into convoluted formulas and etc is to try and make it so every Rep comes close to representing a district roughly the same size in population as the smallest state. Obviously because of how basic division works, you still won’t have equal sized districts, but they would be much closer than they are today.

Maybe. I don’t really have a problem with that though. The less meaningless pork in legislation the better.

I should reiterate pretty much nothing I have proposed here is new, essentially every single change is present either in some other country that functions perfectly fine or it is present in one of our States.

Many State governors have line item veto, and they still seem to have a functioning government.

Again, we could talk about all kinds of ridiculous “outrageous scenarios”, like what would happen if the President pardoned everyone in Federal prison–because the pardon power is sort of like my dissolution power in that it is essentially absolute. Realistically I’m not worried about the things you are worried about, I’ve looked at other Presidential countries that have such a system and I’ve not seen anything alarming, if anything I’ve seen governments that run a bit more efficiently than ours.

The great fear in 1789 was the danger of factions undermining the republic and essentially creating a “tyranny of the majority” which essentially ran rough shod over the interests of everyone else. I don’t think that concern needs to be addressed in the same way it did in 1789.

If a President was being impeached and dissolved Congress, we’re still talking about a month or so for Congress to finish impeachment. Remember, the House just needs a majority vote to impeach the President. Imagine if Nixon had this power and dissolve the House, the House had already approved impeachment in committee. If Nixon had utilized this power, that House would still have at least a month to operate, and I can 100% guarantee they would fast track impeachment and Nixon would have been impeached. Once the President is impeached he is tried before the Senate, which under my proposed system cannot be dissolved, so the President would be unable to save his own neck realistically.

The big difference is that David Cameron is part of the Parliament he is dissolving. If he misreads the mood of the electorate, the other party gets a majority and Cameron is no longer Prime Minister. That puts a pretty solid limit on how many times in a row a Prime Minister can dissolve Parliament.

But under your system, a President could keep dissolving Congress as often as he wants without it having any effect on his office.

Right…just like a President could pardon every person convicted of any Federal crimes without it having any effect on his office.

I like most of the Constitution just the way it is except for a few reforms:

-Allow line item vetoes for the President
-Salaries not to be given to Congressmen who have other income above a certain level
-The rights to life to be granted from the point of conception

True. But pardoning felons doesn’t have a direct effect on the functioning of the government itself.

Its interesting some of the ideas in the OP was included in the Confederate Constitution.

For several reasons. The most obvious being:

  1. While the French PM has the power to dissolve the Lower House, the Lower House also has the power to dissolve Cabinet. IOW a President that dissolves the Lower House is taking a mighty big gamble. In the event that he uses this power and his party loses the subsequent election, he is then saddled with a Cabinet that is both politically opposed to him *and *livid for him calling the election to begin with. This is precisely what happened when Chirac used the power ~10 years ago, and we all know how well that turned out for him. So your insinuation that the French President could dissolve the Lower house without it having any effect on his office is incorrect. It has a massive effect on his office when the Cabinet is intensely hostile to him.

  2. The French President has very little legislative power. He can veto bills, but IIRC if the same bill is presented to him again within 12 months he is obliged to sign off on it. IOW there is no chance of the sort of nonsense we saw with Obamacare or the most recent budget bungle. So long as the two houses agree the President is ultimately forced to sign off, hence no true veto power exists.

You have added neither of these balances to your proposed veto powers. Under your system the President really could dissolve the Lower House with absolutely no effect on his office, and with potentially huge advantages to his ability to advance his own agenda. This is very unlike the situation in France.

Of course today he could pardon all Federal felons with absolutely no effect on his office. But Rupert Murdoch and Warren Buffet are highly unlikely to use their influence to encourage him to do that, don’t you think? And very few Federal felons are likely to be personal friends of the President, or long-term supporters, wouldn’t you agree? And very few Federal felons are likely to ever have the power to knobble Presidential plans, correct? So there is really very little for the President to gain personally from pardoning or not pardoning felons.

In contrast there are rather obvious reasons why the President would choose to exercise or not exercise his power of dissolving the lower house.

As such the analogy with pardoning felons really doesn’t seem to address the issues raise din any way at all.

For some reason people are really hung up on this concept that the President’s power to dissolve the legislature would essentially have no limit in scope and could never turn out badly for the President.

I have thought of this, and like I said, the reality is that it doesn’t need specific limitations because it’s ludicrous to assume a President would just sit there and use it over and over again until he got the House he wanted. You would most definitely see a President who would essentially lose the ability to govern.

If you look back to the relationship between Kings George II and George III and their Parliaments you will see a similar situation, because the monarch had no limit on his ability to call for elections for a new Parliament. By and large Parliament still almost always won over the monarch, because the power to dissolve the legislature did not tend, in itself, to change public opinion in the monarch’s favor, and many times repeated attempts to change the composition of Parliament just lead to the King finally having to accept Prime Ministers they loathed.

The President absolutely needs a functioning Congress to pass budgets and do other things that are essential to his ability to run the country, if he kept the legislature essentially permanently in a state of limbo his own power to do anything would be very limited.

Further, the President already has several powers which in the “obnoxious case scenario” he could use extremely disruptively. I brought up the pardon power precisely because it is a power that the SCOTUS has ruled is essentially unlimited in scope and unchecked by any constitutional mechanism. I have not seen the pardon power as something that gets crazy, although there are always unfortunate end of Presidency pardons that do seem to happen.

The current veto power of the President requires 2/3rds majorities from both houses to overcome, and I would argue that it could be just as disruptive as continually dissolving the House if it were used constantly. What would happen to a President that constantly vetoed every single piece of legislation? Well, Andrew Johnson only vetoed a few things that the Radical Republicans wanted and he ended up impeached and while he survived the trial in the Senate he did end up politically marginalized. A President that was actually vetoing everything would probably have been convicted in the Senate.

I had sort of considered various alternative mechanisms like allowing the House to prevent its dissolution by passing some blocking legislation with some level of supermajority, but I just don’t think it is necessary. I don’t think people should dismiss the idea of how powerful the notion of “that just isn’t appropriate” is. Under the constitution of Canada, the Governor General could, as I understand it: Withhold assent for any legislation he wanted, with little ability of Parliament to override this, or dissolve or prorogue Parliament on a whim, with little ability of Parliament to stop it. The reason that does not happen is essentially tradition, and the fact that the people put into the position of G-G just aren’t the sort who would do such a thing. If they did, you would see a dramatic change to Canada’s constitution very quickly.

In any case, the reason to grant the power to dissolve the House is for him to use it in extreme scenarios. Is it possible that a President would use it in other scenarios, to his political benefit? Yes. However, such an act would not be without risks, and the fact that he could call new elections again and again to try and get bigger majorities in the House is dramatically undermined by the fact that such action would irreparably harm the Presidency. To me, the possibility is remote enough that the system does not need to be hard coded against it.

Instead, it should be dealt with the same way something as unlikely as a rogue monarch in the UK or Governor General in Canada would be handled: by immediate and dramatic constitutional changes, those positions have vast powers that are never exercised because the public would not stand for it. The Presidency has real power that the public expects will be wielded by the President, but it also has powers it expects the President to use sparingly and with discretion. This power would fall into that category and I do think that the system would self correct if a President went off the deep end with it, either through constitutional changes or impeachment. However, I don’t think it is good policy to limit the options on the table by creating various hard coded limitations on the power itself.

I would prefer the right to serve in either the congress or senate would be limited to Native Born Citizens of the USA who have attained the minimum age of thirty-five at the the time of their elections. Proof of such birth would be required by the sworn eye witness testimony of six previously proven citizens.

Please, please, PLEASE tell me this is a joke. I appreciate a good whoosh as much as the next guy, I’m just hoping this is one…

Some of it is; some of it is not. The primary objective is maturity.