# Constitution be damned, the FDA is moving ahead to ban almond milk (so says the washington examiner) \[Note just the word milk is being banned\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 21, 2022, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046 "2022-08-21T20:01:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/121 "2022-08-22T20:00:40Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > If that’s what you believe, then what do you propose happen here? I’d like it if, during his [Confirmation Hearing](https://www.c-span.org/video/?516592-1/food-drug-administration-commissioner-confirmation-hearing#) (1:54) he isn’t required to confirm with Senator Baldwin (Wis) that he promises to provide a “fair outcome” that “preserves the use of dairy terms for dairy products”, as a condition of employment. But, by all means, let’s pretend that the FDA isn’t unduly influenced by the dairy industry with this announcement made a few months after his confirmation. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/122 "2022-08-22T20:22:08Z")
Let’s be clear about what we actually know: 1. The FDA hasn’t “announced” anything. 2. The conclusions being drawn by the OP are based on this opinion article that reveals exactly nothing other than Justin Pearson’s own personal conclusions about the subject. Again, the FDA hasn’t yet taken any final action. 3. That quote from the confirmation hearing: Take a very good look at what it is saying, or, rather, what it isn’t saying. What we exactly want is a fair outcome. There is nothing objectionable about yhat. And, what we as a public should want is a determination “that preserves the use of dairy terms for dairy products.” Note that even those who are arguing against this particular labeling restriction are, indeed, arguing for the same principle, only that they believe that ”milk” isn’t a “dairy term.” Whichever way this determination is made, the commitment will have been kept. 4. I know a lot of people in the administrative side of regulatory law. The last thing they want to court is controversy, and if they are good at their jobs, if an action is likely to raise controversy, they will be very meticulous in presenting their conclusions. 5. Again, until we see what the FDA concludes or how they justify that conclusion, there is literally nothing to criticize. All the noise in this thread is itself political pressure, of the very kind that people are ironically denouncing. 6. The Washington Examiner is a pretty garbage newspaper. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/123 "2022-08-22T20:46:57Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The FDA hasn’t “announced” anything. They have announced a change. They did not submit a draft policy on the labeling of plant based milk alternatives to the OMB that retains the status quo of the labeling of plant based milk alternatives. > [@Acsenray](#): > > ”milk” isn’t a “dairy term.” I’m sure his next Senate hearing is going to be a real peach if he trots this out. This isn’t High School Debate, he has to work with these people, in the future, where they’re going to know damn well what he told the Senator from Wisconsin about dairy terms, only to turn around and say that milk doesn’t count, hardy har har. If he did that to me, I wouldn’t believe a single thing he said, ever again, about anything, and I don’t see why anyone else would either. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/124 "2022-08-22T20:46:59Z")
This is an eye-opener. Thanks for posting it. I’ll probably lay off the almond milk, and the smokehouse almonds, but I’ll still call each what I just did. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/125 "2022-08-22T20:49:59Z")
> [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > Hi **bobot**. Hi! 🍻 ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/126 "2022-08-23T00:57:41Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > - Again, until we see what the FDA concludes or how they justify that conclusion, there is literally nothing to criticize. All the noise in this thread is itself political pressure, of the very kind that people are ironically denouncing. People should politically pressure govt agencies. Powerful companies shouldn’t be able to use money and access to get an outsized voice. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/127 "2022-08-23T01:12:09Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > Oat appears to be best and most available of the plant-based options, according to this article: Happily, it is also one of the tastier non-dairy milks. > [@Acsenray](#): > > As many others have pointed out, this is just a matter of food labeling, which the FDA handles all the time. They have set guidelines for what terms may be used for thousands of food products. One might quibble with where they draw the lines, but the activity itself is a perfectly reasonable exercise of regulatory authority for the purpose of preventing consumer deception. > > I for one don’t understand why those who use or produce non-dairy milk substitutes get all up in arms whenever this comes up. Clearly people looking to use beverages produced from nuts and grains are better off with more precise labeling. And in the long run this should benefit manufacturers also. I have no beef with the FDA regulating labeling to be clear. But i see a lot of political pressure on the FDA to prevent the makers of plant-based foods from using natural words to describe those foods. And “milk” had a long history of being used for a variety of white, opaque liquids. I don’t even like non-dairy milks, i just think this proposed regulation is, at best, silly. It really does hark back to the undyed margarine sold with a tablet of dye. That being said, it doesn’t bother me enough to do more than whine on a message board. I certainly don’t care enough to write a letter to the FDA or anything. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/128 "2022-08-23T02:07:45Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I have no beef with the FDA regulating labeling to be clear. Pun intended? ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/129 "2022-08-23T02:15:39Z")
Ive seen cashew milk. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/130 "2022-08-23T02:19:20Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Let’s be clear about what we actually know: > > 1. The FDA hasn’t “announced” anything. > 2. The conclusions being drawn by the OP are based on this opinion article that reveals exactly nothing other than Justin Pearson’s own personal conclusions about the subject. Again, the FDA hasn’t yet taken any final action. > … > 3. Again, until we see what the FDA concludes or how they justify that conclusion, there is literally nothing to criticize. All the noise in this thread is itself political pressure, of the very kind that people are ironically denouncing. > 4. The Washington Examiner is a pretty garbage newspaper. All excellent points. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/131 "2022-08-23T02:45:29Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > I have no beef with the FDA regulating labeling to be clear. > > Pun intended? It occurred to me as i typed it. 😜 ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/132 "2022-08-23T03:02:16Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > What IS the most environmentally non intrusive milk? The healthiest? For humans? Human breast milk. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/133 "2022-08-23T11:28:03Z")
I do not like cow milk. In its place I’ve tried soy, almond, and oat. I like all three and will forever call them “milk” regardless of what’s on the label. I assume they’ll continue to be available in the store’s “dairy case”. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/134 "2022-08-23T11:36:13Z")
All in favor of “nut sweat” in this corner, please. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/135 "2022-08-23T20:10:10Z")
Of course. For environmental reasons, can I suggest oat “milk”? No one is trying to take your favorite milk alternative away. Just to _maybe_ not call it “Milk”. (Have you ever tried goat milk?) I admit I despise the almond industry here in CA, which is wasting a large amount of water during drought years, has a massive surplus, and exports most of it anyway. I would support a law that banned the sale of almond “milk”. In CA, they keep demanding us homeowners water our “evil” lawns less and less, causing my lawn (which does not use weed killer or fertilizer and has many native grasses, etc) to die. If every Californian stopped watering their lawn, it would save about 2% of overall usage, almost a “drop in the bucket”. Ag uses 80 %. Almonds alone use 10% of the total CA water supply, equal to ALL residential use. Note that Alfalfa also uses about 15%, and can easily be grown in water rich areas outside CA. Much of it is also exported. CA is basically exporting around 20% of its water. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/136 "2022-08-24T01:29:36Z")
This reminds me of when Big Chip came after Pringles. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/137 "2022-08-24T01:32:11Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > They have announced a change. They proposed a new rule, in 2018, long before this commissioner was appointed. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > > [@Acsenray](#): > > > > ”milk” isn’t a “dairy term.” > > I’m sure his next Senate hearing is going to be a real peach if he trots this out. This isn’t High School Debate, he has to work with these people, in the future, where they’re going to know damn well what he told the Senator from Wisconsin about dairy terms, only to turn around and say that milk doesn’t count, hardy har har. > > If he did that to me, I wouldn’t believe a single thing he said, ever again, about anything, and I don’t see why anyone else would either. Listen very carefully to how Senator Baldwin phrases her question. She knows exactly what she is doing. She wants to be seen supporting an important industry in her state. However, she also doesn’t want to be forced into a fight with this appointee should this particular rulemaking go the other way. She is very carefully preserving plausible deniability for herself. Frankly, I think she knows that this isn’t a particularly important issue in the big picture, not for the U.S. Senate, not for the country, and not even for the F.D.A. Whichever way the F.D.A. rules on this issue is not going to be very important to anyone. Only two very specialized industries care about it. And frankly, in the long run it’s not even going to amount to a huge deal either to the dairy industry nor the milk substitute industry. In the big picture, everyone will be just fine no matter which way this particular rulemaking comes out. But the senators from certain states have to put on a show for their own constituencies. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/138 "2022-08-24T01:37:36Z")
They don’t have to. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/139 "2022-08-24T01:38:41Z")
Get back to me on that when you’re a senator. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/140 "2022-08-24T03:12:26Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Only two very specialized industries care about it. And frankly, in the long run it’s not even going to amount to a huge deal either to the dairy industry nor the milk substitute industry. In the big picture, everyone will be just fine no matter which way this particular rulemaking comes out. Yeah, this is true. It will annoy me if it becomes illegal to label “milk of magnesia” or “oat milk” like that, but it’s not going to make it any harder to find either product. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046.md?page=8)