# Constitution be damned, the FDA is moving ahead to ban almond milk (so says the washington examiner) \[Note just the word milk is being banned\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 21, 2022, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046 "2022-08-21T20:01:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/141 "2022-08-24T11:05:50Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > (Have you ever tried goat milk?) I like goat stew. I like beef. Goat milk should be fed to kids, cow milk to calfs. I love cheese, but that’s a whole other thing. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/142 "2022-08-24T11:37:59Z")
I looked up the nutrition information on oat milk, and there are way too many grams of carbohydrates in oat milk for my liking, 14 grams per cup, compared to 1 gram per cup in almond milk. I measured the amount of almond milk I use in a single cappuccino, and it’s 2.8 ounces, so at 8 cappuccinos per week I go through a half gallon of almond milk every three weeks. I’m going to keep on using almond milk. I’m a firm believer that we don’t need 5% of the people doing the reduce/reuse/recycle thing perfectly, but that we need 80% of us doing a pretty good job of it. I’m not perfect, but I reduce my footprint where I can. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/143 "2022-08-24T12:09:24Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > She is very carefully preserving plausible deniability for herself. Plausible deniability to whom? The dairy farmers she just made a big show of representing, only to have the word ‘milk’ declared ‘non-dairy’? I doubt they’re as dumb as you’re suggesting they are. She voted for him, after asking only one question of him, about this very issue, and got that issue ruled in direct opposition to her stated position on it. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/144 "2022-08-24T12:21:44Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Plausible deniability to whom? As I said, she doesn’t want to be forced into a confrontation with this appointee over an issue that isn’t actually important. There is a very good reason why she didn’t ask explicitly “will you ensure that plant-based alternatives cannot be labeled _milk_?” She could have easily done that. She knows how to do that. But she didn’t. And deliberately so. She wants to be seen supporting dairy but she also doesn’t want it on record that she holds the explicit position that plant-based alternatives aren’t milk. Notice she didn’t elaborate on this point or ask any follow up questions. This gives her room to accede to the subject-matter experts at the FDA to determine what the legal definition of _milk_ should be. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/145 "2022-08-24T13:27:18Z")
I’m always interested in why special interest groups would spend so much money and time trying to peddle influence over government officials who are just going to ignore what they want over issues that barely affect their businesses anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/146 "2022-08-24T13:48:16Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > This gives her room to accede to the subject-matter experts at the FDA This is what her constituents will crucify her over. Letting a cardiologist decide what milk is. As to why she didn’t follow up, they had a private meeting on the topic, where they clearly came to some sort of arrangement, and the public question was to inform her dairy industry supporters that she had a meeting with him for the purpose of protecting the dairy industry, and succeeded. It would be one thing if the White House scuttles the deal, it would be an abject failure if Califf himself decided that milk wasn’t an exclusively dairy term. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/147 "2022-08-24T14:03:49Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > It would be one thing if the White House scuttles the deal, it would be an abject failure if Califf himself decided that milk wasn’t an exclusively dairy term. No FDA commissioner who wants to be seen as doing es job competently would blatantly cut deals with a senator. And no president would want to appoint such a commissioner, either. If there’s a deal being cut, then it would be between the White House and the Senate, not between the FDA commissioner and a senator. Once confirmed, the FDA commissioner is not going to want to be seen to be beholden to a senator on a particular issue. He’s not going to want to stake his future reputation on something so trivial. Furthermore, the very fact that the current commissioner is _not_ an expert on this particular question means that the actual subject-matter experts at the FDA are going to be the ones doing the study and analysis on this issue. As I said, when a final rule is issued, they are mandated by law to explain themselves. Only after they do that will there be something to criticize. Right now, all you have is innuendo and panic-mongering. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/148 "2022-08-24T14:33:57Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > This is what her constituents will crucify her over. Letting a cardiologist decide what milk is. 1. She has an answer: “I did what I could. You saw me on TV.” 2. It’s the FDA commissioner’s job to oversee a widely experienced staff of subject-matter experts. It’s not es job to determine the outcome of every regulatory proceeding on es own. The dairy industry knows that, the senator knows that, and the commissioner knows that. 3. Congress created the regulatory system precisely so that it didn’t have to be responsible for every decision, especially one that should be based on expertise. They also did it so that they wouldn’t have to be held accountable for every such decision. Both Senator Baldwin and the commissioner are very aware of what their roles are in this. The commissioner’s obligation is not to ensure a particular result, but to take the heat for decisions that the senator doesn’t want to bother with. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/149 "2022-08-24T14:41:50Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Only after they do that will there be something to criticize. Why wait until then? If the FDA is validating the plant based milk industry, as you suggest is theoretically possible, the innuendo and panic mongering would serve to bolster White House support of the FDA ruling. They would see Americans concerned about changes to the labeling of plant based milk alternatives, see the FDA’s submission alleviating those concerns, and consider that favorably as part of the approval process. What is the downside to the plant based milk industry? Waiting until after the rules are changed makes it that much harder to go back to the prior rules. Granted, our criticisms would then be on very firm ground, but the goal isn’t to have validated criticism, it’s to avoid a bad rule change. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/150 "2022-08-24T14:45:08Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > What is the downside to the plant based milk industry? I’m not criticizing the tactics of the plant alternative industry. They are also playing their role. I’m criticizing the people who are taking the opinion piece in the OP seriously as a sign that there are actually dastardly deeds being committed. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/151 "2022-08-24T16:21:20Z")
The thing about all these plant milks is that they are made from recipes, and they can be really different from each other, depending on the manufacturer and the variety. I use an oat milk that’s absolutely decadent, it froths well and an ounce or two will whiten the strongest cup of coffee I can make. But it’s made with sunflower oil as well as a gum thickener and it weighs in at 160 calories per 8 ounce serving. Still, it makes the absolutely BEST and creamiest lattes, hot chocolates, and milky teas, way better than cows milk. But I’m not using it for the health benefits, there really are none AFAICT. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/152 "2022-08-24T20:41:56Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > But I’m not using it for the health benefits, there really are none AFAICT. Unless your family member hates coconut milk and is allergic to nuts and soy, making oat milk a spectacular find. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/153 "2022-08-24T20:54:53Z")
I wasn’t speaking about oat milk in general, just the specific “full fat extra creamy” variety I use. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/154 "2022-08-24T20:59:05Z")
Got it. Though it sounds good! Which brand? ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/155 "2022-08-24T21:05:57Z")
Oat Silk Full Fat Extra Creamy ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/156 "2022-08-24T21:08:42Z")
Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/157 "2022-08-24T21:37:49Z")
The fat content of animal milk does seem to vary from batch to batch, if that is important for your coffee or hot chocolate. Supposedly you can buy Channel Island milk or water buffalo milk, but that does not seem to be your standard carton of milk found at the convenience store. One could always get “half-and-half”. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/158 "2022-08-24T22:03:13Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Letting a cardiologist decide what milk is. This is kind of an unfair insinuation. I once was friends with an FDA employee involved in revising food labeling law a few decades back. His background was in systematic biology and when he was addressing mislabeled fish in the marketplace he was coming from an informed background. I should know - we took ichthyology together in college (and he was definitely the star pupil). ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/159 "2022-08-24T22:44:49Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > I should know - we took ichthyology together in college (and he was definitely the star pupil). I don’t know, seems fishy to me. 🐟 ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046/160 "2022-08-25T03:07:02Z")
Have you tried half and half? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitution-be-damned-the-fda-is-moving-ahead-to-ban-almond-milk-so-says-the-washington-examiner-note-just-the-word-milk-is-being-banned/970046.md?page=9)