# Constitutional Sheriffs **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 28, 2024, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitutional-sheriffs/1008215 "2024-09-28T21:02:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2024, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitutional-sheriffs/1008215/1 "2024-09-28T21:02:50Z")
Where did the idea of sheriffs being some sort of ultimate authority according to the Constitution come from? I took a look, and the word “sheriff” doesn’t appear in the Constitution at all. I can’t even find “county authority” in there. What’s up? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2024, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitutional-sheriffs/1008215/2 "2024-09-28T21:13:41Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Where did the idea of sheriffs being some sort of ultimate authority according to the Constitution come from? They are- unlike Police Chiefs (generally) - _elected_ officials. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2024, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitutional-sheriffs/1008215/3 "2024-09-28T21:14:52Z")
As are judges, Presidents and some coroners. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2024, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitutional-sheriffs/1008215/4 "2024-09-28T21:16:49Z")
This explains the movement- > **[Constitutional Sheriffs](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/constitutional-sheriffs)** > > The origins of constitutional sheriff ideology lie in the two concepts of the county supremacy movement: The county – not the state or federal governments – should control all land within its borders, and the county sheriff should be the ultimate law... ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2024, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitutional-sheriffs/1008215/5 "2024-09-28T21:20:44Z")
It helps if you read it as _‘’‘Constitutional’‘’ Sheriffs_ and not _Constitutional Sheriffs_. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2024, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitutional-sheriffs/1008215/6 "2024-09-28T21:34:25Z")
Since it is for the most part far right wing sheriffs and their backers that follow this philosophy (and correct me if I am wrong), it looks like too many of them think they only have to follow the laws that they approve of, and that this is totally legal. Is this correct? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2024, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitutional-sheriffs/1008215/7 "2024-09-29T01:17:04Z")
The villain in season 5 of Fargo was a constitutional sheriff. It’s adjacent to sov cit ideas, though not identical. It’s just crazy right wing bullshit, no logic at all behind it. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2024, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitutional-sheriffs/1008215/8 "2024-10-03T17:51:19Z")
Its basically a way to keep law enforcement in the hands of a good ol’ boy who can make sure that it goes after the “right” people. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2024, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitutional-sheriffs/1008215/9 "2024-10-05T03:35:39Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Where did the idea of sheriffs being some sort of ultimate authority according to the Constitution come from? I took a look, and the word “sheriff” doesn’t appear in the Constitution at all. I can’t even find “county authority” in there. > What’s up? Did you look in your states constitution? Because that is what the term is referring to. In many states the Office of Sheriff is created and regulated by the state constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2024, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitutional-sheriffs/1008215/10 "2024-10-05T03:45:27Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > In many states the Office of Sheriff is created and regulated by the state constitution. As if these lackwits have read their state constitution - their justification for their beliefs is usually a confused mishmash of the Magna Carta, the Bible, the Uniform Commercial Code, and some white nationalist tract written in the '70s by a guy who went to prison for refusing to pay property tax or something. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2024, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitutional-sheriffs/1008215/11 "2024-10-05T03:50:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > it looks like too many of them think they only have to follow the laws that they approve of, and that this is totally legal. Is this correct? More or less. Is it really surprising that there are a group of people from a historically privileged/powerful demographic that, in the face of changing times, decide to favor an interpretation of the law, dubious/ridiculous though that interpretation may be, that ostensibly gives them more personal power unchecked by anybody else, especially by anybody who may be of a different gender, race, religion, or political beliefs? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2024, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitutional-sheriffs/1008215/12 "2024-10-05T03:53:29Z")
I had never heard of “Constitutional” sheriffs until this thread. Thank you, @Czarcasm, for giving me another reason to lie awake at night. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2024, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitutional-sheriffs/1008215/13 "2024-10-05T03:55:38Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Did you look in your states constitution? Because that is what the term is referring to. In many states the Office of Sheriff is created and regulated by the state constitution. That’s not what the constitutional sheriff movement is about. Their position is that the sheriff is the ultimate law enforcement officer in their country, and can direct that state or federal law does not apply. See comments from the Anti-Defamation League: > - The central tenet of CSPOA, borrowed from the anti-government extremist sovereign citizen movement, is that the county sheriff is the ultimate authority in the county, able to halt enforcement of any federal or state law or measure they deem unconstitutional. And similar from the Southern Poverty Law Center: > The origins of constitutional sheriff ideology lie in the two concepts of the county supremacy movement: The county – not the state or federal governments – should control all land within its borders, and the county sheriff should be the ultimate law enforcement authority in the U.S. These ideas were pioneered by Christian Identity minister William Potter Gale in the 1970s and described as “Posse Comitatus.” Even if the position is created by the state constitution, that doesn’t give the sheriffs the power to override the supremacy clause of the federal Constitution. [https://www.adl.org/resources/report/constitutional-sheriffs-and-peace-officers-association-cspoa-and-richard-mack-how](https://www.adl.org/resources/report/constitutional-sheriffs-and-peace-officers-association-cspoa-and-richard-mack-how) > **[Constitutional Sheriffs](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/constitutional-sheriffs)** > > The origins of constitutional sheriff ideology lie in the two concepts of the county supremacy movement: The county – not the state or federal governments – should control all land within its borders, and the county sheriff should be the ultimate law... ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2024, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitutional-sheriffs/1008215/14 "2024-10-05T04:05:33Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I had never heard of “Constitutional” sheriffs until this thread. Back in 2010 or so, Obama was making an appearance in Phoenix and these folks were convinced that Joe Arpaio was going to arrest him the second he got off of Air Force One for being secretly born in Kenya or something. It must have come up in SRIOTD or something. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2024, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitutional-sheriffs/1008215/15 "2024-10-05T04:20:05Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Back in 2010 or so, Obama was making an appearance in Phoenix and these folks were convinced that Joe Arpaio was going to arrest him the second he got off of Air Force One for being secretly born in Kenya or something. It must have come up in SRIOTD or something. The surprising thing is that Arpaio didn’t do that and send Obama to Tent City ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2024, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitutional-sheriffs/1008215/16 "2024-10-05T04:36:24Z")
Like a lot of folks with similar “beliefs”, a lot of them know there actually is a line they should not try to cross. Arpaio has repeatedly shown that he, at least, knows he can, at best, talk a big game only in Maricopa County and even then, only sometimes. Turns out, costing the taxpayers a lot in lawsuits can cause you to lose elections. It’s one thing to talk big in your own podunk county surrounded by people who have known you and your family all your life. It’s a bit different trying to strongarm people who have the power and authority not to put up with that nonsense. Or trying to gather a support base in a more populous and more diverse county. The more populous the county, the more these types tend to hedge, picking and choosing their battles and relying on friendly judges. “You and what army?” “The US army” “That’s a big army” ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2024, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitutional-sheriffs/1008215/17 "2024-10-05T06:28:09Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > SRIOTD ??? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2024, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitutional-sheriffs/1008215/18 "2024-10-05T06:41:13Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > The surprising thing is that Arpaio didn’t do that and send Obama to Tent City The 101st Airborne might object. > [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > “You and what army?” > > “The US army” > > “That’s a big army” Yep. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2024, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitutional-sheriffs/1008215/19 "2024-10-05T06:52:11Z")
Stupid Republican Idea Of The Day ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2024, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitutional-sheriffs/1008215/20 "2024-10-05T07:46:49Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > The county – not the state or federal governments – should control all land within its borders, and the county sheriff should be the ultimate law enforcement authority in the U.S. These ideas were pioneered by Christian Identity minister William Potter Gale in the 1970s and described as “Posse Comitatus.” You know, I was just being cheeky when I said upthread that their philosophy was based on a half-baked reading of a white nationalist tract from the '70s. I didn’t know that was _literally_ the case. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/constitutional-sheriffs/1008215.md?page=2)