# Construct: Are you for real? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 11, 2015, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/construct-are-you-for-real/727501 "2015-08-11T00:12:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Chikni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d26b3c/32.png) [@Chikni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chikni)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/construct-are-you-for-real/727501/281 "2015-09-04T22:50:52Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The Jain emperor Kharavela was tolerant of other religions (he probably had to be, since most of his subjects were likely not Jains) but killed thousands of people and possibly millions in wars of conquest that covered much of modern India. Also, I would hesitate to use the term ‘Jain emperor’ for Karavela [http://www.jainworld.com/book/historyofjainism/ch7.asp](http://www.jainworld.com/book/historyofjainism/ch7.asp) > [@](#): > > Schubring is not inclined to give much importance to the Kharavela inscription from the Jain point of view. He said: "This much mutilated inscription it is true, begins with a Jinist formula of veneration, but what tangible deeds in favor of the Jains the scholars were inclined to interpret from it have turned out to be untenable or remained inexplicable. We may presuppose that Jain communities flourished within Kharavels’s reign.�10 One is inclined to agree with this view of Stubbing, for if Kharavela, an important king of Kalinga according to his own reckoning, was a Jain, he would surely find mention in the old Jain literature. But Jain literature does not contain even a hint that Kharavela existed. > > Another significant thing about the Hathigumpha remains is that "except for Kharavela’s inscriptions we could not attribute these to the Jains, for nothing of the decoration reveals their Jain character: the deities depicted are early Hindu, e.g. the sun-God Surya and the lotus Goddess Gaja- Laksmi (Padma-Shri); the figural relief in the Rani-Gumpha have been interpreted by some as scenes from the life of Parshvanatha and by others as episodes from the popular stories of Vasavadatta and Shakuntala; and the whole building is even thought to have been a theater…"11 > > In short, we know that Kharavela’s chief queen was a patron of the Jains and Kharavela himself also had a friendly attitude towards them ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/construct-are-you-for-real/727501/282 "2015-09-05T00:12:13Z")
> [@Chikni](#): > > I actually went through every single one of those links, and not one of them shows any of the groups either claiming to be inspired or justified by their religion. They’re fucking _Buddhist monks_, who are urging the Buddhist believers who follow them to commit atrocities against non-Muslims! > [@](#): > > I am not commiting the No true Scotsman fallacy when I state that Tibetan separatists who seek violent responses to China actually reject Buddhism You most certainly are committing the No True Scotsman fallacy when you assert that violent extremist Buddhists have to reject Buddhism in order to be violent extremists. Along with a bunch of moving the goalposts and special pleading regarding the _Buddhist monks_ who are promoting an intolerant and violent form of Buddhism. > [@](#): > > (and the Dalai Lama). So? The Dalai Lama isn’t the fucking Buddhist Pope. And hey, wanna hear about how Mongolia was converted to Buddhism? Spoiler: it involves forced conversion of the populace to Buddhism at the hands of the Dalai Lama’s first incarnation. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/construct-are-you-for-real/727501/283 "2015-09-05T01:30:27Z")
Yup, religion is not so good. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/construct-are-you-for-real/727501/284 "2015-09-05T01:40:15Z")
I don’t really care if melanin-deprived persons become rare, but it would be a shame to lose Western democracy. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/construct-are-you-for-real/727501/285 "2015-09-05T01:46:47Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I don’t really care if melanin-deprived persons become rare, but it would be a shame to lose Western democracy. Cosigned. Try to remember this distinction, all of you who are so quick to hurl the accusation of racism. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/construct-are-you-for-real/727501/286 "2015-09-05T01:51:40Z")
Its not “western” any more than physics is. The principles are universally obvious and desired, and, in many case, the students have long since outpaced the teachers. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/construct-are-you-for-real/727501/287 "2015-09-05T02:09:10Z")
Well, sure, if there was massive immigration from Africa and Asia to Europe and the Americas but the institutions of constitutional law, freedom of expression, separation of church and state (all the good stuff, basically) were kept intact, no problem. There’s nothing in the genetics of white people that make them pro-democracy - the liberal structures we enjoy came about after generations of trial and error - and I’d hate to see them endangered by a pro-Sharia movement or anything else that could be reasonably construed as a threat to those structures. Heck, if a bunch of genuinely Nordic-blond types thought we needed a good dose of fascism, I don’t give a damn if they’re as white or whiter than I am - I’d be happy to prosecute, persecute and even kill them if they start acting to overthrow the system of government to which I have become accustomed. Fuck those people. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/construct-are-you-for-real/727501/288 "2015-09-05T02:24:54Z")
> [@Chikni](#): > > I repeat - I am not claiming that NO Jain or Buddhist can commit violence. The aplogists in the thread seem to claim that Islam has zero influence on the actions of Islamic extremists. Your inference is based on your preconceived notion of what you want others to say, not on what they have said. You make the claim that Islam has some special characteristic that turns many of its believers into raving killers. We simply deny your claim. You make the claim that the followers of other religions are not led to the same madness. We point out that believers in the religions to which you point have engaged in very much the same horrors based on their religious beliefs, and you try to play the No True Scotsman game (providing not a single shred of evidence to support your odd belief), and then falsely accusing others of having claimed that Islam played no role in attacks by Muslims–a claim no one has posted. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/construct-are-you-for-real/727501/289 "2015-09-05T02:25:39Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Cosigned. Try to remember this distinction, all of you who are so quick to hurl the accusation of racism. Looks more like a tangent, to me. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/construct-are-you-for-real/727501/290 "2015-09-05T02:53:28Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Looks more like a tangent, to me. You go to hell, sir. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/construct-are-you-for-real/727501/291 "2015-09-05T03:22:38Z")
> [@Chikni](#): > > I repeat - I am not claiming that NO Jain or Buddhist can commit violence. The aplogists in the thread seem to claim that Islam has zero influence on the actions of Islamic extremists. That they would behave exactly the same way, and at the same scale no matter what religious(or other ideology) they were taught/indoctrinated with. This strikes me as patent nonsense. > If you take two groups of people, similar in other ways, teach one the ideology that non-violence is the most critical thing, and teach the other that violence in the pursuit of your goals is both desirable and glorified, there will be significant differences in their behaviour. Considering mainstream Islam doesn’t in fact teach that, this assertion of yours is a non-starter. > [@](#): > > Do you truly believe that there are no meaningful differences between the role Islam can play as a religious fountainhead for extremism and violence and the role that Jainism or Buddhism can play? None whatsoever. ISIS openly rejects traditional Islam (branding most other streams of Islam as false Muslims even) and made up its own _sui generi_ brand of self-serving ignorant bullshit. The guys who shot up Charlie Hebdo not only never read the Koran, but by the admission of the very guy who “indoctrinated” them in prison, never really cared to learn about Islam as a religion - they only cared about it in the sense that it provided them means to “fight the West”, through the logistics of the various terrorist networks their garage imam was affiliated with. Osama Ben Laden wanted to ignite a great war that would unite the various Muslims countries in the Levant into a coherent whole that could rival existing superpowers. And so on. The current geopolitics have extremely little to do with religion and everything to do with, well, _geopolitics_. > [@](#): > > I am not commiting the No true Scotsman fallacy when I state that Tibetan separatists who seek violent responses to China actually reject Buddhism(and the Dalai Lama). As \*\*Aïsha \*\*observed, quite a few of them are Buddhist bloody monks. It’s difficult to be more Buddhist than that :p. Not that they’re the first violent Buddhist monks - Japan has [quite a few historical warrior-buddhist temples](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C5%8Dhei) for example. And believe you me, these guys did not fuck around. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/construct-are-you-for-real/727501/292 "2015-09-05T06:22:13Z")
> [@andros](#): > > You go to hell, sir. Pssst. A mod. Better make it clear that Eucliding. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/construct-are-you-for-real/727501/293 "2015-09-05T20:28:03Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Pssst. A mod. Better make it clear that Eucliding. He’s tough, he can take it. But I suppose I could find a different angle in the future. . ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/construct-are-you-for-real/727501/294 "2015-09-05T20:32:48Z")
Just don’t be obtuse. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/construct-are-you-for-real/727501/295 "2015-09-05T21:36:17Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Just don’t be obtuse. This is certainly the right oh God I can’t go any further ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/construct-are-you-for-real/727501/296 "2015-09-05T22:16:02Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > This is certainly the right oh God I can’t go any further You are wise to stop. People have gone to prism for less. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/construct-are-you-for-real/727501/297 "2015-09-05T23:12:09Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > You are wise to stop. People have gone to prism for less. Thales well that ends well. The puns end now, right ? RIGHT ? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/construct-are-you-for-real/727501/298 "2015-09-05T23:42:32Z")
If that one didn’t kill it, nothing will. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/construct-are-you-for-real/727501/299 "2015-09-06T00:07:10Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Thales well that ends well. The puns end now, right ? RIGHT ? Dear gawd, let’s hope. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/construct-are-you-for-real/727501/300 "2015-09-06T00:20:18Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > If that one didn’t kill it, nothing will. You’re always fear-mongering. You think you can mentor us. I bet growing up you had a friend who complained that you’d ruin every game of Monopoly he’d run. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/construct-are-you-for-real/727501.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/construct-are-you-for-real/727501.md?page=16)