# Consumer Purchases **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 25, 2010, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-purchases/551449 "2010-08-25T20:38:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![meanderingja\_aol.com](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5ac83/32.png) [@meanderingja\_aol.com](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/meanderingja_aol.com)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-purchases/551449/1 "2010-08-25T20:38:10Z")
Why is it that companies today do not stand by their products? Why is it that I am basically throwing money down the drain because a manufacturer expects their product to die at the end of a one year warranty. They won’t even stand behind their products, and I am sick and tired of my calls being routed to India and the Philippines. I asked a manufacturer to speak with someone in corporate, and this is what they told me. “They don’t talk to people. Their job is to manage people”. I was told by two different retailers that Printers are throwaways. My Laptop will probably die in two years, the battery in one year. Given the political times, I think this extreme negligence of Companies to provide a product and stand by it should also be addressed. I am wondering if boycotts should be implemented. I am but one person. Does anyone else feel the same? No wonder our country is such a mess… ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-purchases/551449/2 "2010-08-25T20:41:16Z")
People want lower prices. The easiest way to lower prices is to lower the cost of your materials and invest less in employees. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-purchases/551449/3 "2010-08-25T23:02:51Z")
> [@meanderingja\_aol.com](#): > > Why is it that companies today do not stand by their products? Because it’s not profitable. And what makes you think it’s just happening “today”? It always has. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-purchases/551449/4 "2010-08-25T23:09:45Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > > [@meanderingja\_aol.com](#): > > > > Why is it that companies today do not stand by their products? > > Because it’s not profitable. > > And what makes you think it’s just happening “today”? It always has. Well now, I actually _believe_ the stories that the older stuff was made to last. It was expected, see; when a product rolls onto the market and then promplty falls apart, word of mouth defeats advertising, because there’s nobody that _likes_ it. And so companies were in the habit of making products that didn’t fall apart when you kicked the tires. Then came increased globalization, and the ability for multiple producers of the same product to compete side-by-side on the shelf. And somebody noticed that when somebody is looking a two toasters on a shelf, a difference in price stands out to some people, even beyond sturdiness and manufacturer reputation. So manufacturers found a different rainbow to chase. That’s my theory, anyway - and yeah, I _do_ think that some things were better (well, sturdier) in the good old days. I’m still holding firm about that whole uphill-both-ways thing though. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-purchases/551449/5 "2010-08-25T23:57:27Z")
An update for this thread, Consumer Purchases-Great Debates ver. 1.0 is now available. Please follow the links to update to CP-GD ver 2.3. We are no longer supporting ver 1.0, released 3 1/2 hours ago, and as a result some of your posts may not read properly if you do not update to ver 2.3. Please note the system requirements of 6 TB RAM, you may need to upgrade your system before downloading this upgrade. CP-GD ver 2.3 addresses a number of security issues with ver 1.0 that should never have been there in the first place but have probably already caused loss of your identity. ver 1.0 also just stole your car. ---
**Author:** ![GHO57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df788c/32.png) [@GHO57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GHO57)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-purchases/551449/6 "2010-08-26T00:07:25Z")
Hah, my car has a Windows OS, it’s impossible to steal. Just the updates required for opening the door take 4 hours every day. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-purchases/551449/7 "2010-08-26T00:45:52Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Well now, I actually _believe_ the stories that the older stuff was made to last. You can believe it if you want, but there’s no evidence it’s true. Look, I REMEMBER how stuff used to be and it was just as crappy as it is now and in many cases crappier. No sane person can argue with a straight face that cars used to be built to last more than today, that’s for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-purchases/551449/8 "2010-08-26T00:56:55Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > > [@begbert2](#): > > > > Well now, I actually _believe_ the stories that the older stuff was made to last. > > You can believe it if you want, but there’s no evidence it’s true. > > Look, I REMEMBER how stuff used to be and it was just as crappy as it is now and in many cases crappier. No sane person can argue with a straight face that cars used to be built to last more than today, that’s for sure. There are a lot of counter examples to cars. Toys were much sturdier in the old days, for example. Radio fliers don’t even exist anymore, presumably because it’s cheaper to produce ultralight plastic wagons with plastic wheels than use actual metal and rubber. Tonka trucks are flimsy pieces of disposable junk now. Another example is household items like dishes. You’d think something as simple as porcelain and glass couldn’t really be made more cheaply, but I’ve seen a serious shift toward disposable flimsy plastic cups and dishes in peoples’ homes. People WANT the cheaper stuff that doesn’t last as long, and I don’t understand why. Clothing is probably the biggest example of “they don’t make 'em like they used to”. The shirts I tumbled around in the dirt in lasted longer than stuff I sit at a desk in today, and it’s about as expensive. Clothing has definitely gone downhill. Bottom line is you can’t just point to one thing and say it’s better now, so everything was better. Cars are only better now because making them smaller, lighter, and cheaper just happened to also make them more reliable and last longer. The same is not true for other products. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-purchases/551449/9 "2010-08-26T01:02:39Z")
There is plenty of high quality proof stuff out there today; clothes, toys, etc. Just be prepared to spend 3-4x the cost of the regular stuff. Most folks aren’t willing to pay that, mainly because they don’t need it. If you decide that you need that, spend the extra money and get something that will last longer. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-purchases/551449/10 "2010-08-26T01:14:25Z")
It’s a disposable society. Some of that is planned obsolescence, some is because of the complexity of the item, but mostly because of how much cheaper stuff is to make these days, given the globalization of the labor market. I laugh when I remember the commercials of my youth, “Get training! Get a job in TV repair! VCR repair!”. Who fixes VCRs these days? They are $50 each, maybe less. DVDs are close to that. Blu Rays are what… $125? Same with TVs - if the labor to get a guy in there plus the cheapest repair is going to be $400, why not just buy a new one for $700? Consumers are idiots, or maybe more generously, they are simple. They will compare the base cost of the flight, then bitch because it doesn’t include free meals, blankets, or maybe an extra row that now means an extra cost. It’s what the market bases its buying decisions on, so it’s what business will deliver. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-purchases/551449/11 "2010-08-26T01:14:58Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > > [@begbert2](#): > > > > Well now, I actually _believe_ the stories that the older stuff was made to last. > > You can believe it if you want, but there’s no evidence it’s true. > > Look, I REMEMBER how stuff used to be and it was just as crappy as it is now and in many cases crappier. No sane person can argue with a straight face that cars used to be built to last more than today, that’s for sure. I remember those days, too. What everyone tends to forget is that those old cars, appliances, TV’s, hi-fi systems, etc., broke down all the time. When they broke, you called in a repairman, who put in some new tubes a set of plugs, a new thermostat in the dryer or whatever that held it together for another three months until something else gave out. Shoes were designed to be re-soled and re-heeled, and re-dyed when they got too scuffed. Clothes may have lasted longer, but they were made of cotton or wool. Wool had to be dry cleaned, and my mother could spend a whole day ironing cotton (and an entire evening mending rips and darning socks.) In other words, it’s a tradeoff. In those days you had to keep fixing stuff if you wanted it to last. These days, stuff works perfectly right up until the day it dies. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-purchases/551449/12 "2010-08-26T01:48:13Z")
[quote=“Mosier, post:8, topic:551449”] > [@RickJay](#): > > There are a lot of counter examples to cars. Toys were much sturdier in the old days, for example. Radio fliers don’t even exist anymore… Radio Flyer products are all over the damn place. Wagons, trikes, you name it. See, we tend to remember the stuff that lasted, because it lasted. When I was a kid, most of my toys were junk. Some of them were decent, though, and so you saw them around a long time and might still see them today, and think “Boy, they made stuff that lasted in the olden days.” In fact most stuff was shit, but it’s in landfills. It’s telling that you think Radio Flyers don’t exist when in fact the company’s selling products by the boatload. When I was a kid most wagons, bikes, trikes et al. were absolute garbage. Kids were especially fond of Big Wheels, a 1969 invention that was completely plastic and would be consider a POS even by today’s standards. All that crap ended up in the landfill, but the odd Radio Flyer wagon remains. 30 years from now today’s kids will probably be saying “Boy, they don’t make 'em liked they used to in the 2010s.” ---
**Author:** ![runcible\_spoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc29f/32.png) [@runcible\_spoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runcible_spoon)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-purchases/551449/13 "2010-08-26T01:48:28Z")
Out of curiosity, I checked out how much an all-metal wagon cost in 1940 and now. In the [1940 Sear’s Catalog](http://www.wishbookweb.com/1940_Sears_ChristmasBook/index.htm), you could get a metal wagon for $2.89 (marked down from the full value of $3.98) - which is roughly $44 dollars in 2010 (the full price would have been $60). By comparison, you can get a [Kettler metal wagon for $75 from Amazon](http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001AWQ1NW/ref=asc_df_B001AWQ1NW1222642?smid=A2OZ3LDXGFBD3X&tag=pgmp-1541-01-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395105&creativeASIN=B001AWQ1NW) (marked down from $100). No idea how shipping prices compare, though, the catalog didn’t have that info. So, it looks like in that case, at least, if you want the sturdy version, it’ll cost you about 66% more now than in 1940. More expensive, sure, but hardly unavailable if you want it. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-purchases/551449/14 "2010-08-26T02:00:56Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > > [@RickJay](#): > > > > You can believe it if you want, but there’s no evidence it’s true. > > > > Look, I REMEMBER how stuff used to be and it was just as crappy as it is now and in many cases crappier. No sane person can argue with a straight face that cars used to be built to last more than today, that’s for sure. > > There are a lot of counter examples to cars. Toys were much sturdier in the old days, for example. Radio fliers don’t even exist anymore, presumably because it’s cheaper to produce ultralight plastic wagons with plastic wheels than use actual metal and rubber. Tonka trucks are flimsy pieces of disposable junk now. > > Another example is household items like dishes. You’d think something as simple as porcelain and glass couldn’t really be made more cheaply, but I’ve seen a serious shift toward disposable flimsy plastic cups and dishes in peoples’ homes. People WANT the cheaper stuff that doesn’t last as long, and I don’t understand why. > > Clothing is probably the biggest example of “they don’t make 'em like they used to”. The shirts I tumbled around in the dirt in lasted longer than stuff I sit at a desk in today, and it’s about as expensive. Clothing has definitely gone downhill. > > Bottom line is you can’t just point to one thing and say it’s better now, so everything was better. Cars are only better now because making them smaller, lighter, and cheaper just happened to also make them more reliable and last longer. The same is not true for other products. Actually Radio Flyer does exist and still made from steel. But it’s a lot more expensive then the plastic. For example, here is[http://www.walmart.com/ip/Radio-Flyer-Classic-Red-Wagon/932517#ProductDetail](http://www.walmart.com/ip/Radio-Flyer-Classic-Red-Wagon/932517#ProductDetail) the Radio Flyer classic wagon for about $90.00. And here, [Robot or human?](http://www.walmart.com/ip/Little-Tikes-Sport-Wagon/14711876#ProductDetail) is basically the same thing, but in plastic for about $50. Point being, you can get quality if you’re willing to pay for it. Edited - Bah. Messed up the coding and got beaten on making the point. I blame the heat. ---
**Author:** ![poker\_in\_the\_rear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/dc4da7/32.png) [@poker\_in\_the\_rear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/poker_in_the_rear)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-purchases/551449/15 "2010-08-26T04:03:03Z")
You can still buy steel Tonka trucks as well. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-purchases/551449/16 "2010-08-26T04:33:42Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > There is plenty of high quality proof stuff out there today; clothes, toys, etc. Just be prepared to spend 3-4x the cost of the regular stuff. Most folks aren’t willing to pay that, mainly because they don’t need it. If you decide that you need that, spend the extra money and get something that will last longer. The thing is, in the long run the cheap stuff is more expensive, simply because you have to replace the dang thing so often. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-purchases/551449/17 "2010-08-26T04:36:44Z")
For children’s toys, the trend towards disposability makes some sense. People used to have much larger families and had kids much earlier, meaning that toys could get handed down pretty easily. Chances are someone in the family will still be using it up to the time the older kids start having their own families. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-purchases/551449/18 "2010-08-26T07:14:01Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > > [@begbert2](#): > > > > Well now, I actually _believe_ the stories that the older stuff was made to last. > > You can believe it if you want, but there’s no evidence it’s true. > > Look, I REMEMBER how stuff used to be and it was just as crappy as it is now and in many cases crappier. No sane person can argue with a straight face that cars used to be built to last more than today, that’s for sure. Books used to be much more durable; the old books that I inherited from my mother are in notably better shape than books that are decades younger. “Corningware” used to be made of an entirely different, much more durable substance that was pulled from the market specifically because it was durable; they wanted cookware that wore out so people would have to buy new cookware. And the first nylon stockings were much tougher than modern stocking; modern ones run all the time because they are deliberately made that way. Haven’t you heard of planned obsolescence? ---
**Author:** ![godix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/278dde/32.png) [@godix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godix)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-purchases/551449/19 "2010-08-26T13:30:33Z")
You could choose to purchase an expensive printer that will really last. They cost a shitload more than $50. You have chosen to not fork over hundreds of dollars for a quality printer. Similar to other examples given in this thread, there are high quality clothes being made. They cost a lot more and you won’t find them in Walmart or Target. Quality shoes can be found, but $20 for a pair that will fall apart in a year is so much cheaper. Good quality bound books are specialty items, but they do exist. They can’t be had for less than $10 like a paperback can though. Basically, choosing cheap disposable objects to buy is a choice. Granted, today it’s the default choice in many cases and it can require a lot of effort to even fine the quality stuff. However, it’s still a choice. A boycott is rather stupid when you made what you feel is a bad choice. Instead, just make a better choice next time. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-purchases/551449/20 "2010-08-26T15:03:14Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@RickJay](#): > > > > You can believe it if you want, but there’s no evidence it’s true. > > > > Look, I REMEMBER how stuff used to be and it was just as crappy as it is now and in many cases crappier. No sane person can argue with a straight face that cars used to be built to last more than today, that’s for sure. > > Books used to be much more durable; the old books that I inherited from my mother are in notably better shape than books that are decades younger. “Corningware” used to be made of an entirely different, much more durable substance that was pulled from the market specifically because it was durable; they wanted cookware that wore out so people would have to buy new cookware. And the first nylon stockings were much tougher than modern stocking; modern ones run all the time because they are deliberately made that way. Haven’t you heard of planned obsolescence? > **[Book](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book#Paper_and_conservation_issues)** > > A book is a structured presentation of recorded information, primarily verbal and graphical, through a medium. Originally physical, electronic books and audiobooks are now existent. Physical books are objects that contain printed material, mostly of writing and images. Modern books are typically composed of many pages bound together and protected by a cover, what is known as the codex format; older formats include the scroll and the clay tablet. > As a conceptual object, a book often refers to... [QUOTE=Wikipedia] However pulp paper contained acid, that eventually destroys the paper from within. Earlier techniques for making paper used limestone rollers, which neutralized the acid in the pulp. Books printed between 1850 and 1950 are at risk; more recent books are often printed on acid-free or alkaline paper. Libraries today have to consider mass deacidification of their older collections. [/QUOTE] Every book I’ve read from before 1950 has been fragile and in danger of decomposing in my hands if I treated it roughly. For the most part, however, I agree that there is a lot more crap out there than there used to be. But I happen to think that’s a good thing. As others have said, quality products are still out there, however, unlike our predecessors, we have the choice to buy cheaper but lower quality products. People are much better off today with the choice to buy sweat pants and t-shirts rather than having to choose between a suit and rags like our great grandparents. Poor people get the brunt of this benefit. Poor people today buy cheap Wal-Mart clothes and eat KFC. Do you really think they’re worse off than great grandma who had to repair all her clothes because new ones were too expensive, and probably thought dough fried in lard was a luxurious delicacy? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-purchases/551449.md?page=2)