# Consumer Reports sent me a political solicitation email! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 18, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920 "2009-03-18T18:35:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920/21 "2009-03-18T21:52:09Z")
> [@Long\_Time\_First\_Time](#): > > I read a take down of Consumer Reports a few years ago - it was pretty sad. Not about anything political bias but bout how they go about doing their job. They rate products that are sent to them by companies. Most often, the exact type of item they rate ( Like an Iron Chef 4800 toaster, for example) is not actually sold in most stores. At stores you might find the Iron Chef 5000 toaster, the Iron Chef 400i Toaster, and the Iron Chef 4800z toaster. So the ratings and discussions in the magazine aren’t really about the product on the shelf. They say that have to take samples sent by the manfucturer because they must rate stuff months before it becomes available. That’s funny, I read Consumer Reports a lot and I have never had a problem finding the EXACT same model number that they list for a product. However, I do shop at places like Best Buy, Sears, Lowes, etc. I have heard that places like Walmart have companies build them subpar models with “off” model numbers so they can buy and sell them at cheaper prices. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920/22 "2009-03-18T22:05:13Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > I don’t know. I don’t care. It’s not my place to figure it out. It’s just that as far as I’m concerned, heath, education and safety should come before anything else, then allocate what’s left to everyone else. OK. Suppose I provide you with information about an individual who needs $50,000 of health care and can’t afford it. Are you willing to put up this money out of your bank account (or sell your assets as necessary)? If not, does this show you to be “cruel, heartless and narrow-minded”? ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920/23 "2009-03-18T22:23:30Z")
Oh fuck off. I’m fine with my taxes going to help other Americans. Better than going to kill innocent people in bogus wars. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920/24 "2009-03-18T22:27:42Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > I don’t know. I don’t care. It’s not my place to figure it out. It’s just that as far as I’m concerned, heath, education and safety should come before anything else, then allocate what’s left to everyone else. Right, but then don’t you see that the “figuring it out” is a political question? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920/25 "2009-03-18T23:01:33Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Right, but then don’t you see that the “figuring it out” is a political question? That doesn’t explain why Consumer Reports advocating UHC _in general_ is a political issue. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920/26 "2009-03-18T23:05:32Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Right, but then don’t you see that the “figuring it out” is a political question? I personally don’t see why it has to be. Except that those who most often block and bitch happen to be Republicans. Which brings me back to which party is cruel, heartless, and narrow-minded. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920/27 "2009-03-18T23:26:01Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That doesn’t explain why Consumer Reports advocating UHC _in general_ is a political issue. If CR had _opposed_ UHC, would you see that as political? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920/28 "2009-03-19T01:12:25Z")
I question whether there was any such email. I’ve been a member for years, and I get all kinds of email from them, but I’ve never gotten anything like this. I have to wonder whether it was some other organization in the guise of Consumers Union. I would like the OP to post the body of the email. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920/29 "2009-03-19T02:11:20Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > If CR had _opposed_ UHC, would you see that as political? I could have sworn I responded to this earlier, but my post isn’t there. 😕 Anyway, long story short: no, as long as they are doing so in the consumer interest. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920/30 "2009-03-19T05:42:04Z")
> [@Long\_Time\_First\_Time](#): > > I read a take down of Consumer Reports a few years ago - it was pretty sad. Not about anything political bias but bout how they go about doing their job. They rate products that are sent to them by companies. Most often, the exact type of item they rate ( Like an Iron Chef 4800 toaster, for example) is not actually sold in most stores. At stores you might find the Iron Chef 5000 toaster, the Iron Chef 400i Toaster, and the Iron Chef 4800z toaster. So the ratings and discussions in the magazine aren’t really about the product on the shelf. They say that have to take samples sent by the manfucturer because they must rate stuff months before it becomes available. > Not surprisingly, there are some that use this to their advantage, getting great reviews for the one well made (and impossible to find) version of their product. Putting crappier versions out there and hoping nobody figures out the difference. As several people have already said, this is completely untrue. CR buys all the products it tests, anonymously, right from the same stores we all go to. And the idea that they get products early is ridiculous – for example, their April issue is just coming out – that is the annual automotive issue, rating all the new cars. But the new models came out last fall, several months ago. It takes them months to test all the new cars, and make their evaluations. The ones that get early, carefully prepped demo models of new cars are all the writers for auto mags – and you hardly ever see a bad review in those mags. The one criticism that has some accuracy is the issue of unique models, especially in electronic items. It’s been a common practice for some years for the big box electronics stores, like Circuit City, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, to ask a manufacturer like Sony, Phillips, etc. to produce a model for them, that meets certain specs. Or even a range of models, from basic to most enhanced models. As they were major customers, they got that. But in recent years, they have been asking the electronics manufacturers to make those models exclusive, not selling them to anyone else. So you might see the Sony player model 123 only in Best Buy stores. And a pretty similar version, model 456 is only sold by Circuit City. That does make comparison shopping a bit harder, since you can’t compare identical models. And cuts down on price competition; most price guarantees said “if you find the same model selling for less …”. But this is a tactic of the big box stores, not something CR magazine did. They do try to compare similar electronics items, even when they are different model numbers. And the big box electronics stores are disappearing, anyway. Circuit City was the latest to go; Best Buy is about the only remaining nationwide one. And this isn’t that new – Sears Kenmore stoves have been made by one of the other stove manufacturers for Sears, to Sears specs, for years. Nor does this prevent consumers from comparing different models. Buyers have no trouble comparing the Ford pickup truck to the Chevy, Dodge, & Toyota models and picking one. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920/31 "2009-03-19T13:22:28Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Oh fuck off. I’m fine with my taxes going to help other Americans. Better than going to kill innocent people in bogus wars. That’s very nice of you. But that doesn’t explain why you are not fine with otherwise sharing your resources so that other people’s health care needs can be met. You’ve said that in allocation of resources “heath, education and safety should come before anything else, then allocate what’s left to everyone else”, but you are being inconsistent in your application of this. I suspect that you personally have more than “health, education and safety” but you are unwilling to give up those things in order that others should have “health, education and safety”. ISTM that by your own position this makes you cruel and narrowminded. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920/32 "2009-03-19T13:45:18Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > That’s very nice of you. > > But that doesn’t explain why you are not fine with otherwise sharing your resources so that other people’s health care needs can be met. You’ve said that in allocation of resources “heath, education and safety should come before anything else, then allocate what’s left to everyone else”, but you are being inconsistent in your application of this. I suspect that you personally have more than “health, education and safety” but you are unwilling to give up those things in order that others should have “health, education and safety”. > > ISTM that by your own position this makes you cruel and narrowminded. No. Your “Al Gore still uses energy” brand argument is complete bullshit. As an alternative position, do you believe that America should have a military force? If so, are you ready to pay $150,000 out of pocket to provide an armored HMMWV (humvee) for our national defense? If not, you must be a complete hypocrite. I support UHC - I think it’s right and just and economically for the best for the country, and am ready to give up my proportional share in the overall cost. I’m not ready to give up some wildly disproportionate amount to make some insignificant advance towards that end, and there’s no equivalence between those positions. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920/33 "2009-03-19T13:47:50Z")
I too call “cite” on the OP (who seems strangely absent from his own thread). I’ve known CU to advocate for general issues it decides are important to consumers, but not by sending email “solicitations”. If some of you choose to argue the actual merits or lack thereof for UHC, at least recognize it is a different subject from the OP. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920/34 "2009-03-19T13:52:55Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That doesn’t explain why Consumer Reports advocating UHC _in general_ is a political issue. It is also a financial and moral issue. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920/35 "2009-03-19T14:46:57Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > I too call “cite” on the OP (who seems strangely absent from his own thread). I’ve known CU to advocate for general issues it decides are important to consumers, but not by sending email “solicitations”. > > If some of you choose to argue the actual merits or lack thereof for UHC, at least recognize it is a different subject from the OP. A quick search turns up this: [How We Work for Marketplace Change](http://www.consumersunion.org/health/summdc599.htm) > [@](#): > > Models for Reform > Consumers Union’s goal for health care reform is: Every person must have access to quality health care at an affordable price, with the right to choose providers and the right to have complaints resolved fairly. > > There are many possible paths that could lead to this goal. We could use the public sector as a single payer of all health insurance for all people. Or we could mandate employer-provided coverage (with various levels of employer funding). We could provide incentives for states to individually take the lead on the path toward affordable coverage for all. Another approach would be to allow individuals to buy into the Federal Employee Health Benefits Program. Another path would be an individual mandate (combined with an overhaul of the individual health insurance market and targeted subsidies to make premiums affordable) (1). > [@](#): > > Conclusion - A Call for FAIR SHARE HEALTH CARE > We need to move from our patchwork system characterized by gaps, toward a tapestry concept that weaves together into a coherent whole the various functional parts of the system, acknowledging that we are all in this together, and interdependent. Consumers Union needs to educate the public about the unfair burden the current health care system places on the poor and the sick. We need to help the nation define health care finance fairness - and work toward limits on families’ exposure to out-of-pocket health care expenditures and premiums. We need to adopt as our motto, “Fair Share Health Care,” with each American paying a fair share - and every American enjoying quality coverage. I don’t see what the problem is. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920/36 "2009-03-19T15:12:33Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > No. Your “Al Gore still uses energy” brand argument is complete bullshit. > > As an alternative position, do you believe that America should have a military force? If so, are you ready to pay $150,000 out of pocket to provide an armored HMMWV (humvee) for our national defense? If not, you must be a complete hypocrite. > > I support UHC - I think it’s right and just and economically for the best for the country, and am ready to give up my proportional share in the overall cost. I’m not ready to give up some wildly disproportionate amount to make some insignificant advance towards that end, and there’s no equivalence between those positions. I’m not sure if you’ve followed the conversation here, because your response is out of context. If someone posted your final paragraph as their position, and I responded with my line of argument here, it would be logically flawed, as you note. But that’s not the discussion here. What we are discussing is the claim, by Equipoise, that anyone who opposes UHC is necessarily “cruel, heartless and narrow-minded”. And he supported this by taking the absolutist position that as regards to allocating cost in society “I don’t know. I don’t care. It’s not my place to figure it out. It’s just that as far as I’m concerned, heath, education and safety should come before anything else, then allocate what’s left to everyone else.” My response is valid in that context. Once you agree that there is some point at which the amount is too disproportionate for the approach to be worthwhile, then it’s just a question of where to draw the line. You draw it in one place and others draw it elsewhere. Live and let live. [This is even besides for other considerations about the broader impact of socialism on productivity, but I’m continuing the conversation as it developed here prior to my post.] ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920/37 "2009-03-19T15:18:41Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > If some of you choose to argue the actual merits or lack thereof for UHC, at least recognize it is a different subject from the OP. There’s nothing morally or ethically wrong with CU doing this. Nonetheless, it can turn off potential members. Like me, as noted above. The primary reason that I’ve never been a member is that I disagree with most of their lobbying efforts. What I want is an operation that limits itself to finding out which is the best dishwasher. Not one that lobbies the government to force everyone into a particular dishwashing system. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920/38 "2009-03-19T15:49:32Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I’m not sure if you’ve followed the conversation here, because your response is out of context. Nope. While it may be out of context to the overall thread, it is directly responsive to your line of argument. Whether or not someone is able or willing to make an extraordinary exchange with someone else has no bearing on their opinions about what our societal priorities should be or the means by which we as a society should achieve them. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920/39 "2009-03-19T15:53:21Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Whether or not someone is able or willing to make an extraordinary exchange with someone else has no bearing on their opinions about what our societal priorities should be or the means by which we as a society should achieve them. But it has a bearing on whether they can support their position by claiming an absolutist principle. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920/40 "2009-03-19T16:38:50Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > But it has a bearing on whether they can support their position by claiming an absolutist principle. Nope. Arguing that we absolutely oughta put health, education and safety first as national priorities is independent of whether I’m willing to sacrifice myself fo save someone else. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920.md?page=3)