# Consumer Reports sent me a political solicitation email! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 18, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920 "2009-03-18T18:35:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920/41 "2009-03-19T17:09:21Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Nope. Arguing that we absolutely oughta put health, education and safety first as national priorities is independent of whether I’m willing to sacrifice myself fo save someone else. Only if you’re a world-class hypocrite. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920/42 "2009-03-19T17:24:30Z")
> [@Turek](#): > > Only if you’re a world-class hypocrite. How so? Walk me through your logic, please. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920/43 "2009-03-19T17:47:47Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Over the years I’ve seen (Consumer Reports) do all sorts of taste tests…Personally I think there’s no point to such taste tests to begin with, as anyone can decide for themselves what they like best, and that CR runs them for the primary purpose of concluding that these products are being oversold to a gullible public (that needs CR to show them the way). Just had to say I agree with at least the first part of this - it always seemed somewhere between dumb and elitist to me to have CR “ratings” of canned soup, ice cream and such - unless the product was actually harmful to your health (something I don’t recall ever seeing in the context of food ratings). These ratings are highly subjective and influenced by what a selected group of foodies _think_ popular food products should taste like, which may have little to do with what most people are looking for. Dunno about the “oversold to a gullible public” part. Subjectivity is unavoidable for lots of things they rate (even cars - I’ve always wondered how they’d rate things like comfort and handling if the testers were blindfolded (they’d have to be passengers, of course)), but food/wine are just not things a national outfit like CU should be messing with, in my righteous opinion. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920/44 "2009-03-19T17:51:21Z")
Um, **Kempis**? It’s only “political” if you forget the fact that reality has a liberal bias. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920/45 "2009-03-19T19:38:08Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Just had to say I agree with at least the first part of this - it always seemed somewhere between dumb and elitist to me to have CR “ratings” of canned soup, ice cream and such… \ > These ratings are highly subjective… \ …food/wine are just not things a national outfit like CU should be messing with, in my righteous opinion. Agreed, to the extent that taste is subjective. Still, the viewer’s experience watching a movie or a play is subjective too, but we seem to accept theater critics. We may not agree completely with an individual critic’s tastes, but we may learn to interpolate between various critics and our own subjective experience, thus giving the critique some utility. Also, CU investigates more than flavors. Food and drink “ratings” usually include comparison of labels to independent lab tests, tests for off-label ingredients and/or contaminants, comparison between heavily advertised and “house” brands, and much more potentially useful information. Subjective comparisons of taste are often overshadowed by such additional information, making true comparison in shopping easier. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920/46 "2009-03-20T01:15:20Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > What we are discussing is the claim, by Equipoise, that anyone who opposes UHC is necessarily “cruel, heartless and narrow-minded”. And he… FYI, I’m a she. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > …supported this by taking the absolutist position that as regards to allocating cost in society “I don’t know. I don’t care. It’s not my place to figure it out. It’s just that as far as I’m concerned, heath, education and safety should come before anything else, then allocate what’s left to everyone else.” My response is valid in that context. > > Once you agree that there is some point at which the amount is too disproportionate for the approach to be worthwhile, then it’s just a question of where to draw the line. You draw it in one place and others draw it elsewhere. Live and let live. Are you seriously asking me if I would take $50,000 out of my bank account to give to a person needing medical care, and if I won’t or can’t that makes me a hypocrite because I think health care should be a right of American citizens? First, if I were rich, hell yeah I’d give money to someone who needed it. If I were rich I’d be a charity-giving demon. I’d be Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation-level charity-giving demon. If I were rich I’d be glad to pay taxes to help others not so fortunate. Second, I am not rich, but I don’t mind my taxes going to help Americans. Third, it’s just a profoundly stupid argument. Strawman City. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920/47 "2009-03-20T01:52:04Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Subjectivity is unavoidable for lots of things they rate (even cars - I’ve always wondered how they’d rate things like comfort and handling if the testers were blindfolded (they’d have to be passengers, of course)), but food/wine are just not things a national outfit like CU should be messing with, in my righteous opinion. So don’t subscribe to the magazine. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920/48 "2009-03-20T13:09:20Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > Agreed, to the extent that taste is subjective. Still, the viewer’s experience watching a movie or a play is subjective too, but we seem to accept theater critics. We may not agree completely with an individual critic’s tastes, but we may learn to interpolate between various critics and our own subjective experience, thus giving the critique some utility. That’s a good point, but I think there’s a difference. In the case of a movie or play, you can’t “sample” it yourself and decide. Once you’re in, you’re in. After you’ve bought the tickets and spent the time at the theater you are better informed about whether this movie appeals to you than anything any critic could add, but it’s too late. You’ve already spent the money and time. In the case of food or soft drinks etc., you buy these things on an ongoing basis. You can try out different brands here and there - and will likely encounter most of them anyway in various settings - so you can decide for yourself as to what to do in the future, and what some CU testers think about it has very little relevance. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920/49 "2009-03-20T13:13:46Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Are you seriously asking me if I would take $50,000 out of my bank account to give to a person needing medical care, and if I won’t or can’t that makes me a hypocrite because I think health care should be a right of American citizens? No. The problem here is NOT you saying that “health care should be a right of American citizens”. It’s your claiming that anyone who doesn’t agree with you about this is “cruel, heartless and narrow-minded”, because allocation of resources is something about which you don’t know or care etc. I’ve been very clear about this throughout this thread, but it seems to be getting lost along the way. Whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920/50 "2009-03-20T13:59:14Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The problem here is NOT you saying that “health care should be a right of American citizens”. It’s your claiming that anyone who doesn’t agree with you about this is “cruel, heartless and narrow-minded”, because allocation of resources is something about which you don’t know or care etc. In my mind it’d be the same argument if the debate were, as it was back in…hell, I have to go to work and can’t look up dates, but, the olden days, before firefighting and law enforcement were taken under the government’s wing, to allocate resources for them. One side would be saying “they should be available to everyone, regardless of the ability to pay” and the other side would be saying “fuck 'em if they can’t pay for protection, let 'em burn/police their own” which, you may or may not agree, is cruel, heartless and narrow-minded. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920/51 "2009-03-20T20:15:46Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > That’s a good point, but I think there’s a difference. > > In the case of a movie or play, you can’t “sample” it yourself and decide. Once you’re in, you’re in. After you’ve bought the tickets and spent the time at the theater you are better informed about whether this movie appeals to you than anything any critic could add, but it’s too late. You’ve already spent the money and time. > > In the case of food or soft drinks etc., you buy these things on an ongoing basis. You can try out different brands here and there - and will likely encounter most of them anyway in various settings - so you can decide for yourself as to what to do in the future, and what some CU testers think about it has very little relevance. You read movie reviews, and you go to some movies. Pretty soon you note that if Critic Andy says “the violence is moderately graphic” you’re going to be puking in your popcorn. When Critic Bobby says “the plot is esoteric and develops slowly” you are going to fall asleep in the first 15 minutes and will leave the theater refreshed but unenlightened. Soon you learn to interpolate, and Bob and Andy begin to have some value to you. Similarly, when CU’s testers say “strange after-taste of gasoline” you probably want to stay away from that brand. And if they say of the house brand “bold, well developed flavors indistinguishable from the heavily advertised brand”, I think I’ll probably save myself some money. If I depended only on CU for all of my gastronomic exploration, I’d probably sometimes be disappointed. But I don’t. And – guess what? – I’m sometimes disappointed anyway, and have only myself to blame. _(looks around for some way to pin this on Bush – well, maybe Cheney… drat!)_ Equipoise, I don’t know if UHC is really a “right”, unalienable or otherwise. I just don’t think that is a correct use of the word. But I do certainly believe that UHC is something that can, and something that should, be provided for all of our citizens, as a part of the social contract that we call American citizenship. Perhaps you may agree with this re-statement? ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920/52 "2009-03-20T20:55:13Z")
> [@Kempis](#): > > Consumer Reports sent me an email asking me to support Universal Health Care. Did Consumers Union, the parent company for their publication _Consumer Reports_, actually send you the email? Have you verified it as genuine? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920/53 "2009-03-20T21:04:11Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > **Oh fuck off.** Hi. I just stopped in to remind you that a few words aren’t supposed to be directed at other posters. Specifically, > [@](#): > > The following expressions should not be directed at other posters. > > * * * > > fuck you and variants, e.g., go fuck yourself, fuck off and die [Restricted language in the Pit - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=508858) No warning issued. **Gfactor** Pit Moderator [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consumer-reports-sent-me-a-political-solicitation-email/489920.md?page=2)