# Containing a grenade blast with a helmet? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 1, 2007, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/containing-a-grenade-blast-with-a-helmet/402329 "2007-05-01T17:04:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/containing-a-grenade-blast-with-a-helmet/402329/1 "2007-05-01T17:04:32Z")
I remember seeing this in a war comic from the 1960s. After a grenade has been tossed, a soldier immediately dives on it with his helmet grasped in his hands, with the purpose of covering the explosion of the grenade with the helmet and his body! A second later, the grenade detonates! The helmet and his body take the brunt of the blast/shrapnel, and he saves his buddies, sacrificing himself in the process! A question – was this ever done? How significant would the helmet be in the process? Would you get the same effect if you just jumped on the offending grenade with just your body, or would the shrapnel tear through your body and get to your fellow soldiers? I suppose one could just throw or kick the explosive projectile far away! Did people do that? Any info would be appreciated! ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/containing-a-grenade-blast-with-a-helmet/402329/2 "2007-05-01T17:24:37Z")
IANAS but I’d surmise that the problem with attempting to kick or throw a live grenade is that it likely has already expended much of it’s limited fuse time already and the time it would take to rear back and throw it to a safe distance simply doesn’t exist. As to whether or not someone’s ever tried to successfully cover one with their helmet, here’s one of, if not the most recent, [Cpl. Jason L. Dunham](http://www.mcnews.info/mcnewsinfo/moh/), Medal Of Honor recipient. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/containing-a-grenade-blast-with-a-helmet/402329/3 "2007-05-01T18:51:50Z")
At that range, the shrapnel from the grenade (or “Mills Bomb”–what a quaint term) is less of a concern than the blast. The thin steel helmets of the WWII/Korea/Vietnam era would probably just shatter into fragments, and the escaping blast under the rim would certainly shear away anything in its path like a blowtorch on butter. Clearly even the much stronger Kevlar helmets can’t contain such a burst. Using the helmet certainly attentuates the blast wave insofar as the energy required to burst the helmet, although I’d suspect a body would also absorb much of the blast. Either way, if I saw a grenade rolling toward me, I think my instinct would be to fling myself away, and preferably behind a sandbag wall or a transaxle rather than atop it. I never was much of a team player. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/containing-a-grenade-blast-with-a-helmet/402329/4 "2007-05-01T18:59:27Z")
There are _all too many_ cases in Israeli military history of men who **did** fall on a grenade – generally _sans_ helmet – and saved their buddies, at cost of their own lives. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/containing-a-grenade-blast-with-a-helmet/402329/5 "2007-05-01T20:19:17Z")
[QUOTE=gytalf2000] I suppose one could just throw or kick the explosive projectile far away! Did people do that? [/QUOTE] If you were in close quarters, and a grenade landed in your lap, would you grab it and throw it? I would. The people [here](http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-23-30/ch3.htm) think so as well, and describe how to defeat the tactic. > [@section3.5](#): > > a. Many times in combat, the nature of the targets confronting the infantryman make normal methods of target engagement inadequate. Against soldiers or weapons in trenches or fighting positions, for example, having a grenade burst over the target is more effective. Furthermore, if the targets are on sloping ground, then a grenade needs to detonate as near impact as possible to prevent its rolling away from the target before detonating. Such aboveground detonation also prevents the enemy from securing the grenade and throwing it back within the 4- to 5-second fuze delay. > b. Aboveground detonation is especially critical when engaging bunker-type emplacements. To achieve aboveground detonation or near-impact detonation, remove the grenade’s safety pin, release the safety lever, count ONE THOUSAND ONE, ONE THOUSAND TWO, and throw the grenade. This is called cooking-off. Cooking-off expends a sufficient period (about 2 seconds) of the grenade’s 4- to 5-second delay. This causes the grenade to detonate above ground or shortly after impact with the target. Do not cook-off fragmentation or white phosphorous hand grenades when in training. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/containing-a-grenade-blast-with-a-helmet/402329/6 "2007-05-01T20:37:49Z")
[QUOTE=Noone Special] There are _all too many_ cases in Israeli military history of men who **did** fall on a grenade – generally _sans_ helmet – and saved their buddies, at cost of their own lives. ☹ [/QUOTE] Yeah. It happened again last summer in Lebanon - an officer jumped on a grenade, saved his troops. ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/containing-a-grenade-blast-with-a-helmet/402329/7 "2007-05-01T21:12:32Z")
[QUOTE=lieu] IANAS but I’d surmise that the problem with attempting to kick or throw a live grenade is that it likely has already expended much of it’s limited fuse time already and the time it would take to rear back and throw it to a safe distance simply doesn’t exist. [/QUOTE] Using my brother, who’s an infantry officer with his share of combat: You _don’t_ want to cook off the grenade. Trying to count off fuse time in the heat of combat can have disastrous consequences (“one one-thousand, two one-thousand . . . uh . . .where was I?”). If you’re throwing it in an enclosed space such as a room, you’re supposed to throw it _hard_, so it’ll go bouncing and skittering off walls and other objects. Much harder for someone to pick up and throw back at you. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/containing-a-grenade-blast-with-a-helmet/402329/8 "2007-05-01T21:13:09Z")
> [@](#): > > b. Aboveground detonation is especially critical when engaging bunker-type emplacements. To achieve aboveground detonation or near-impact detonation, remove the grenade’s safety pin, release the safety lever, count ONE THOUSAND ONE, ONE THOUSAND TWO, and throw the grenade. This is called cooking-off. Cooking-off expends a sufficient period (about 2 seconds) of the grenade’s 4- to 5-second delay. This causes the grenade to detonate above ground or shortly after impact with the target. Do not cook-off fragmentation or white phosphorous hand grenades when in training. There is only one problem with this tactic. one of Murphy’s law of combat states that 4 second fuses only last 2 seconds… :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/containing-a-grenade-blast-with-a-helmet/402329/9 "2007-05-01T22:00:45Z")
[QUOTE=Rick] There is only one problem with this tactic. one of Murphy’s law of combat states that 4 second fuses only last 2 seconds… :eek: [/QUOTE] 1…2…4 three sir Right 3! ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/containing-a-grenade-blast-with-a-helmet/402329/10 "2007-05-01T22:21:13Z")
OK, after the last couple of posts, you asked for it: [QUOTE=Monty Python and the Holy Grail] SECOND BROTHER: And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, ‘O Lord, bless this Thy hand grenade that, with it, Thou mayest blow Thine enemies to tiny bits in Thy mercy.’ And the Lord did grin, and the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals and fruit bats and large chu– MAYNARD: Skip a bit, Brother. SECOND BROTHER: And the Lord spake, saying, ‘First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then, shalt thou count to three. No more. No less. Three shalt be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, nor either count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then, lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.’ [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/containing-a-grenade-blast-with-a-helmet/402329/11 "2007-05-01T22:40:00Z")
Remember–grenades in the 60’s, as in the OP, were gunpowder weapons, not today’s more powerful explosives. So, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/containing-a-grenade-blast-with-a-helmet/402329/12 "2007-05-01T22:49:17Z")
recently a reporter picked up an explosive device and threw it out of the vehicle he and a group of soldiers were in. his hand was amputated, thankfully his life and those in the vehicle were saved. his article was in time mag… he said the device was very hot when he picked it up. ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/containing-a-grenade-blast-with-a-helmet/402329/13 "2007-05-01T23:07:58Z")
[QUOTE=Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor] Remember–grenades in the 60’s, as in the OP, were gunpowder weapons, not today’s more powerful explosives. So, maybe? [/QUOTE] Grenades have used high explosive fillers for a very long time, going back to World War I. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/containing-a-grenade-blast-with-a-helmet/402329/14 "2007-05-01T23:34:45Z")
[QUOTE=mks57] Grenades have used high explosive fillers for a very long time, going back to World War I. [/QUOTE] The original [Mills bomb](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mills_bomb) used a Baratol filler, an early plastique explosive of TNT, barium nitrate (for density and increased brisance), and a parafin binder. I don’t imagine any military devices have used deflagrant-type explosives like blackpowder since the invention of stabilized dynamite, although ANFO-type low grade high explosives have been used by sappers. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/containing-a-grenade-blast-with-a-helmet/402329/15 "2007-05-02T00:01:32Z")
This one’s for you, Kaiser Bill. Special delivery from Uncle Sam and all the boys in D Company. Yeah… Johnny, Harris, Brooklyn Bob. And Reggie. Yeah, even Reggie. He ain’t so stuck up once you get to know hi… ---
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/containing-a-grenade-blast-with-a-helmet/402329/16 "2007-05-02T13:27:29Z")
Corporal [Jason Dunham](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Dunham) of the 3rd Battalion, 7th Marines was recently awarded the Medal of Honor for exactly this action. The Medal of Honor citation reads, in part, > [@](#): > > As they approached the vehicles, an insurgent leaped out and attacked Corporal Dunham. Corporal Dunham wrestled the insurgent to the ground and in the ensuing struggle saw the insurgent release a grenade. Corporal Dunham immediately alerted his fellow Marines to the threat. Aware of the imminent danger and without hesitation, Corporal Dunham covered the grenade with his helmet and body, bearing the brunt of the explosion and shielding his Marines from the blast. In an ultimate and selfless act of bravery in which he was mortally wounded, he saved the lives of at least two fellow Marines. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/containing-a-grenade-blast-with-a-helmet/402329/17 "2007-05-02T13:42:48Z")
My father told a story once about when he saw a guy dive on a gernade in Korea just like in the movies. The gernade failed to explode, and the guy turned batshit crazy. No idea what happened to the guy after that. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/containing-a-grenade-blast-with-a-helmet/402329/18 "2007-05-02T14:26:37Z")
[Medal of Honor Citations](http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/moh1.htm) That Army website has a full text citation for all ~3,400 Medals of Honor that have been awarded throughout history. If you peruse through the citations under the Vietnam heading you will notice a high proportion of them are for soldiers who dove on live grenades. ---
**Author:** ![Anaptyxis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anaptyxis/32/3171_2.png) [@Anaptyxis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaptyxis)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/containing-a-grenade-blast-with-a-helmet/402329/19 "2007-05-02T17:30:06Z")
[QUOTE=rocking chair] recently a reporter picked up an explosive device and threw it out of the vehicle he and a group of soldiers were in. his hand was amputated, thankfully his life and those in the vehicle were saved. his article was in time mag.. he said the device was very hot when he picked it up. [/QUOTE] That would be [Michael Weisskopf](http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1597533,00.html), who was/is a reporter for _Time_. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2007, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/containing-a-grenade-blast-with-a-helmet/402329/20 "2007-05-02T17:35:51Z")
[QUOTE=PoorYorick] OK, after the last couple of posts, you asked for it… [/QUOTE] Nothing like a moving reading from the Book of Armaments to bring a pious tear to the eye… ::sniff:: [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/containing-a-grenade-blast-with-a-helmet/402329.md?page=2)