# Contestant loses Miss USA for not being liberal enough. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 21, 2009, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798 "2009-04-21T01:14:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/41 "2009-04-21T08:11:55Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > I’m fully in support of gay marriage but I’m disappointed that Miss California would lose points for essentially not holding the same political views as Hilton. Not me. If being a bigot costs her the crown, that reflects well on the pageant. Suppose she was asked about letting black people use the same drinking fountains as white people and she came out against that. Shouldn’t that cost her the victory? But as least she was honest about her bigotry. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/42 "2009-04-21T09:40:11Z")
Was the winner given a softball question? “World peace: good or bad?” - you can say she deserved to lose because she had the wrong view or that she wasn’t articulate and tactful enough of her answer - but for all we know the eventual winner might’ve been vehemently anti-gay and dumb as a box of rocks, but since she wasn’t given the tough question, we have no idea. So it’s kind of silly to say “she deserved to lose” without being able to know if the eventual winner would’ve “deserved to lose” even more if given the same circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/43 "2009-04-21T10:09:28Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Exactly. Regardless of her opinion in the matter, her answer showed that she is inarticulate, tactless, and irrational. Who in their right mind tells a judge in a competition that they are in, an answer that they know would be personally offensive to the judge? A smarter person, even if they wanted to express the same sentiment she did, could have done so in a more graceful and coherent manner. That alone should disqualify her. I’d still do her though. And if you look deep into your heart, isn’t that really what the whole event is about, hmm? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/44 "2009-04-21T10:25:27Z")
At some level it has to be OK for them to judge her on her opinion. If she’d been asked a question about affirmative action and she’d said, “Well, Perez, I just plain don’t like black people, so…” I don’t think it would have been that controversial to knock her out of the top spot for that. Sure, the country is divided over gay marriage, but a lot of people don’t like black people, too–it doesn’t make it any less offensive. If they’re not judging her on her actual opinion, then they have to judge her on the quality of her answer, and that’s even worse. It was horrible. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/45 "2009-04-21T10:46:18Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Was the winner given a softball question? “World peace: good or bad?” - you can say she deserved to lose because she had the wrong view or that she wasn’t articulate and tactful enough of her answer - but for all we know the eventual winner might’ve been vehemently anti-gay and dumb as a box of rocks, but since she wasn’t given the tough question, we have no idea. > > So it’s kind of silly to say “she deserved to lose” without being able to know if the eventual winner would’ve “deserved to lose” even more if given the same circumstances. I don’t know what the winner got, but I saw video of two candidates. One was asked if considering the current economy we should be spending money on ongoing activities in Afghanistan; the other was asked if we should be bailing out failing corporations. So no “puppies: cute or super-cute” lameness there. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/46 "2009-04-21T10:57:46Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Well sure they would, if the answers were likely to be ENTERTAINING. You mean, like when they discuss geography? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/47 "2009-04-21T11:21:15Z")
I agree that they judged her as much on the poor construction of her answer as the content thereof. One of her resume points is that she’s a “motivational speaker” and does outreach work. Given that, her ability to say two concise sentences on a topic that she, as a resident of California, should have formed an opinion on by now (given Prop 8 and all) is a worthwhile thing to be judged. And it was, and she came up lacking. That she came up lacking while showing herself to be a bigot only reinforces the correctness of her not receiving enough points from her answer to win the pageant overall. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/48 "2009-04-21T12:08:22Z")
I don’t have a strong opinion about gay marriage, but what I find annoying is the idea that anyone who opposes gay marriage is a bad person. ---
**Author:** ![hobscrk777](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a6a055/32.png) [@hobscrk777](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hobscrk777)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/49 "2009-04-21T12:15:12Z")
Consensus: She lost for being marginally more coherent than Miss South Carolina (alluded to by two posters already). ---
**Author:** ![Laudenum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Laudenum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laudenum)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/50 "2009-04-21T12:30:29Z")
All she was doing was representing the majority opinion of her state, she shouldn’t have been punished for that. > [@panache45](#): > > I believe that the winner of this competition represents the U.S. in the worldwide competition. I, for one, am glad that this country won’t be represented by a bigot. It would have been nice if all the contestants had been asked this question; as it stands, we don’t know the views of the woman who actually won. Your country elected George Bush - Twice!. It’s a teeny bit late to be worried about what we think of you (not that the rest of us care in the slightest about what Miss USA thinks of gay marriage. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/51 "2009-04-21T12:32:19Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I don’t have a strong opinion about gay marriage, but what I find annoying is the idea that anyone who opposes gay marriage is a bad person. I’m convinced that the overwhelming majority of people who oppose gay marriage are just sadly misinformed and honestly believe that gay rights advocates are proposing we make gay marriage mandatory. I think 95% of people, when informed it’s optional, would say, “I can still get opposite married if I’m not gay? Then why would anyone give a fuck?” The 5% who would still be opposed are absolutely awful people. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/52 "2009-04-21T12:42:08Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I don’t have a strong opinion about gay marriage, but what I find annoying is the idea that anyone who opposes gay marriage is a bad person. They are. It’s bigotry. It’s no better than opposing racial integration or forbidding women to vote. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/53 "2009-04-21T13:36:45Z")
Miss USA Runner-Up / Joe The Plumber - 2012! [Fox “News”](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,517228,00.html) already has her back – “God was testing my faith”. Yeesh. ---
**Author:** ![Antigen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Antigen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antigen)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/54 "2009-04-21T13:37:55Z")
Looks to me like she was trying to find a way to apply one of her much-practiced standard answers to the question and failing miserably, You know, when you don’t know how to answer a question, so you manage to turn the question into something you can answer? Those pageant contestants are supposed to be pros at that. I’d say she tried to twist her “if they ask me about abortion rights” answer into something usable and failed miserably. Or she just cracked under pressure. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/55 "2009-04-21T13:38:59Z")
Who would have though the Miss America pageant could ever approach relevancy in this day and age? Color me shocked. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/56 "2009-04-21T13:43:55Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > They are. It’s bigotry. It’s no better than opposing racial integration or forbidding women to vote. Come on now! Not everyone who disagrees with gay marriage is bad, just as many of those who opposed racial integration or suffrage were not bad people. Just because most of us have recognized this doesn’t mean we can’t give others some time and guidance to help them get to the same point themselves. We are only 35 years from the time where the DSM categorized homosexuality as a category of disorder; a time when many educated professionals thought being gay meant there was something wrong with you. You have to give people some time to adjust their cultural values. It’s frustrating to have to wait for basic rights and respect from others, but it far more productive to do that than to demonize other people. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/57 "2009-04-21T13:45:14Z")
I’m a staunch advocate of gay marriage, but IMHO this contestant blew the question before she even got to the part where she says marriage should be between a man and a woman. She blew it when she said “In my country”. Did she blank out for a moment there and think she’d already made it to Miss Universe? Did she think Perez Hilton was a foreigner unfamiliar with American ways? Even if I opposed gay marriage I hope I’d be reasonable enough to see that her answer wasn’t intelligent or particularly coherent. It didn’t even really answer the question that was asked. Hilton didn’t ask about her family’s views on gay marriage, but rather if gay marriage should be legalized in all 50 states. If her answer to the question as asked is “No” then she needs a better reason than “That’s how I was raised”. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/58 "2009-04-21T13:46:29Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > I’m convinced that the overwhelming majority of people who oppose gay marriage are just sadly misinformed and honestly believe that gay rights advocates are proposing we make gay marriage mandatory. I think 95% of people, when informed it’s optional, would say, “I can still get opposite married if I’m not gay? Then why would anyone give a fuck?” > > The 5% who would still be opposed are absolutely awful people. You’re… kidding… right? ---
**Author:** ![hobscrk777](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a6a055/32.png) [@hobscrk777](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hobscrk777)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/59 "2009-04-21T13:47:10Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Come on now! Not everyone who disagrees with gay marriage is bad, just as many of those who opposed racial integration or suffrage were not bad people. Just because most of us have recognized this doesn’t mean we can’t give others some time and guidance to help them get to the same point themselves. We are only 35 years from the time where the DSM categorized homosexuality as a category of disorder; a time when many educated professionals thought being gay meant there was something wrong with you. You have to give people some time to adjust their cultural values. It’s frustrating to have to wait for basic rights and respect from others, but it far more productive to do that than to demonize other people. In his defense, he didn’t claim that they were incapable of ever seeing the error of their ways in the future, only that now, in the present, they held oppressive beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/60 "2009-04-21T13:54:34Z")
Why the hell are we asking Miss USA contestants nuanced political questions in the first place? Fuck’s sake, 10 minutes before she answered this question she was dressed in a bikini and high heels. It’s not like we’re talking about reality here. Just give her the fucking tiara, tell here which shopping mall to show up at so she can cut the ribbon and let’s go about our way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798.md?page=4)