# Contestant loses Miss USA for not being liberal enough. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 21, 2009, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798 "2009-04-21T01:14:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/61 "2009-04-21T13:58:22Z")
> [@Alex\_Dubinsky](#): > > Actually, Perez said something more nuanced. That she should have said it’s up to each individual state to decide. He had framed the question towards that, asking, “should every state follow Vermont.” That’d be a good answer, neither liberal nor conservative, saying that different people be free to live by their own values. But that political mindset _doesn’t_ believe people should live by their own values – that’s why they’re against some people marrying. She couldn’t say “let the states” or anyone else “decide!” because she doesn’t believe the decision should be allowed to go a certain way. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/62 "2009-04-21T14:04:41Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > But as least she was honest about her bigotry. :rolleyes: Right. And since when were beauty pageants about honesty? Isn’t that why they spend hours fake-smiling, and memorizing impromptu answers about saving rain forests, puppies, and fostering world peace? When asked what your one wish would be, you’re not supposed to give the answer that makes you seem like a superficial, hate-filled bitch. When asked about gay marriage, don’t be surprised if nobody likes your “Eww, fags” answer. I will also note that I found her answer about freedom and choices to be pretty funny. I didn’t realize all Americans had the choice between gay marriage and opposite marriage. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/63 "2009-04-21T14:04:42Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > You’re… kidding… right? Yes, but not about anti gay rights exponents being bad people. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/64 "2009-04-21T14:06:04Z")
Awww… she still managed to beat my HS classmate by one place. =( Damn. She shoulda gotten 3rd at least for that answer. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/65 "2009-04-21T14:14:00Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Come on now! Not everyone who disagrees with gay marriage is bad, just as many of those who opposed racial integration or suffrage were not bad people. Yes, they all are, and yes, they all were. They are all bigots, and bigots are “bad people”. > [@brickbacon](#): > > You have to give people some time to adjust their cultural values. It’s frustrating to have to wait for basic rights and respect from others, but it far more productive to do that than to demonize other people. They demonize _themselves_ by holding such vile “cultural values”, and by oppressing people. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/66 "2009-04-21T16:51:08Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > I’m convinced that the overwhelming majority of people who oppose gay marriage are just sadly misinformed and honestly believe that gay rights advocates are proposing we make gay marriage mandatory. I think 95% of people, when informed it’s optional, would say, “I can still get opposite married if I’m not gay? Then why would anyone give a fuck?” For what it’s worth, that’s different from my experiences. Most people I have heard from (in person, on the interent, and so forth) seem to be under the impression that gay marriage means that couples of the same sex would have the option of marrying in essentially the same way that opposite sex couples can; that such marriages would be recognized as marriages by the government; and that the parties to such a marriage would enjoy basically the same legal rights and obligations as opposite sex married people. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/67 "2009-04-21T16:55:58Z")
That’s what she gets for not answering the question with ‘all I want is world peace’. A tragic mistake that she won’t be repeat again. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/68 "2009-04-21T16:58:02Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > For what it’s worth, that’s different from my experiences. Most people I have heard from (in person, on the interent, and so forth) seem to be under the impression that gay marriage means that couples of the same sex would have the option of marrying in essentially the same way that opposite sex couples can; that such marriages would be recognized as marriages by the government; and that the parties to such a marriage would enjoy basically the same legal rights and obligations as opposite sex married people. It sounds like you are describing people who are in favor of legalizing same sex marriage. Is there some subtlety I’m missing? What about the opinions of the people you describe is in any way opposed to same-sex marriage? ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/69 "2009-04-21T17:01:08Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > It sounds like you are describing people who are in favor of legalizing same sex marriage. Is there some subtlety I’m missing? What about the opinions of the people you describe is in any way opposed to same-sex marriage? > [@brazil84](#): > > For what it’s worth, that’s different from my experiences. Most people I have heard from (in person, on the interent, and so forth) seem to be under the impression that gay marriage means that couples of the same sex would have the option of marrying in essentially the same way that opposite sex couples can; that such marriages would be recognized as marriages by the government; and that the parties to such a marriage would enjoy basically the same legal rights and obligations as opposite sex married people. oh I see. You’re saying they understand the term but are opposed to it. Then yes, all those people are bad people. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/70 "2009-04-21T17:05:02Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > They are. It’s bigotry. It’s no better than opposing racial integration or forbidding women to vote. Or hating Christians! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/71 "2009-04-21T17:07:27Z")
A good thing she wasn’t asked for an opnion on euthanasia, she would have chirped about wanting to help all the youth, everywhere! ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/72 "2009-04-21T17:07:44Z")
Hey, at least after being victimized by the homo agenda, she has a sort of ironic victory. Everyone is paying FAR MORE attention to her than the girl that won. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/73 "2009-04-21T17:44:39Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > They are. It’s bigotry. It’s no better than opposing racial integration or forbidding women to vote. The dictionary defines “bigotry” as follows: > [@](#): > > stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one’s own. Seems to me that if anyone is expressing bigotry here, it’s you. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/74 "2009-04-21T18:13:51Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > I believe that the winner of this competition represents the U.S. in the worldwide competition. I, for one, am glad that this country won’t be represented by a bigot. I’ll take this seriously if you can name a single Miss USA over the past 10 years. I can’t. I’ve NEVER watched the Miss USA pageant, and haven’t seen a Miss America pageant since I was a little kid (my grandmother watched it). Beauty pageants are silly, outdated and pointless. By asking a political question, Perez Hilton was taking the whole thing WAAAAY more seriously than anyone ought. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/75 "2009-04-21T18:25:15Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > The dictionary defines “bigotry” as follows: > > Seems to me that if anyone is expressing bigotry here, it’s you. It’s a problem akin to the question of whether the public speech of people who are opposed to freedom of speech should in fact be protected as any other speech guaranteed by the First (or similar local laws). In this case, should we tolerate intolerant people ? ---
**Author:** ![SaharaTea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SaharaTea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaharaTea)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/76 "2009-04-21T18:43:48Z")
I give credit to Miss California for at least addressing the question. When asked whether or not she supported universal health care, Miss Arizona chose to completely ignore the question and instead gave a sterile canned speech about “integrity.” Whoever coaches these girls needs to do a better job. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/77 "2009-04-21T18:53:03Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > It’s a problem akin to the question of whether the public speech of people who are opposed to freedom of speech should in fact be protected as any other speech guaranteed by the First (or similar local laws). In this case, should we tolerate intolerant people ? What do you mean by _tolerate_ them, though? Nobody is suggesting people who are anti-gay should be arrested or harmed or that their ideas should be suppressed. We’re just saying that they’re very bad people who shouldn’t be engaged as if they have a legitimate point of view. It’s no different than saying people who hate blacks or women or a particular religion are bad people. They can still hate, they’re just bad people for it. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/78 "2009-04-21T19:04:24Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > What do you mean by _tolerate_ them, though? Nobody is suggesting people who are anti-gay should be arrested or harmed or that their ideas should be suppressed. We’re just saying that they’re very bad people who shouldn’t be engaged as if they have a legitimate point of view. It’s no different than saying people who hate blacks or women or a particular religion are bad people. They can still hate, they’re just bad people for it. Yes, that’s also my opinion. But \*\*brazil84 \*\*was accusing **Der Trihs** of being bigoted against bigotry. Which is true - he is. But that’s not necessarily a bad thing, was my point. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/79 "2009-04-21T19:12:44Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > It’s a problem akin to the question of whether the public speech of people who are opposed to freedom of speech should in fact be protected as any other speech guaranteed by the First (or similar local laws). In this case, should we tolerate intolerant people ? Yes, of course we should tolerate intolerant people. That’s free speech…by definition. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798/80 "2009-04-21T19:13:53Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Yes, that’s also my opinion. But \*\*brazil84 \*\*was accusing **Der Trihs** of being bigoted against bigotry. Which is true - he is. But that’s not necessarily a bad thing, was my point. No **Der Trihs** is not bigoted against bigotry, he is bigoted against religion in general. He hides behind the idea of being bigoted against bigotry. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contestant-loses-miss-usa-for-not-being-liberal-enough/493798.md?page=5)