# Continuing discussion of SpaceX launches \[edited title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 22, 2015, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-discussion-of-spacex-launches-edited-title/741048 "2015-12-22T00:37:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![Alex\_from\_CB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/278dde/32.png) [@Alex\_from\_CB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex_from_CB)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2018, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-discussion-of-spacex-launches-edited-title/741048/741 "2018-11-15T19:24:27Z")
Spacex Falcon9 getting ready to launch here at The Cape. Pretty cloudy and breezy and am hearing upper atmosphere winds might be high so we will see. 1st daylight launch here in 6 months. Also, assuming this launch takes place it will be the 18th Spacex launch this year. 18 launches in under 11 months. Not bad. 1st stage is returning to the barge so no visual from here today but Dec 4th’s launch should return to LZ1 at The Cape. A sight to behold if you’ve never seen a 22 story building flying straight down and stick the landing. So…Light the candle, as they say. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2018, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-discussion-of-spacex-launches-edited-title/741048/742 "2018-11-15T21:22:02Z")
Payload deployed. Woot! The booster landing video feed seemed flakier this time… maybe it’s just me. I was hoping for another fairing catch attempt, but I guess Mr. Steven wasn’t in place yet. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-discussion-of-spacex-launches-edited-title/741048/743 "2018-12-03T19:01:34Z")
SpaceX did something unique this morning, even for them: they re-used a re-used rocket (third launch for this core). Still waiting to hear if the 64 satellites deployed successfully and if they caught the fairing. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-discussion-of-spacex-launches-edited-title/741048/744 "2018-12-03T20:01:29Z")
Missed the fairing again: > [@](#): > > [Falcon fairing halves missed the net, but touched down softly in the water. Mr Steven is picking them up. Plan is to dry them out & launch again. Nothing wrong with a little swim.](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1069679948103847939) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-discussion-of-spacex-launches-edited-title/741048/745 "2018-12-03T21:15:57Z")
Got a friend with a payload on there (actually mentioned on the webcast, the LACMA project), so it’s good to see everything go smoothly. And definitely cool to have a third use of a booster. I wonder if Spaceflight got an even bigger discount for this mission. In the long run, SpaceX will want to charge the same price regardless of its used status (like pretty much every other vehicle), but in the short term they still have to prove that they’re just as reliable on mission N as they are on the first. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-discussion-of-spacex-launches-edited-title/741048/746 "2018-12-03T23:39:08Z")
It’s funny - we call them ‘used’ rockets instead of ‘tested’ rockets, with the assumption that a ‘used’ rocket is somehow less reliable. However, when a new aircraft is built, it is test flown before being released to service, and if it’s flown many times it is considered to be more reliable. Just a shift in perspective. At some point, SpaceX might be able to convince people that ‘flight proven’ rockets are even more reliable than ones doing their first flight. Maybe they’ll have to offer a discount when using an ‘untested’ booster… Our assumption that a reused booster is less reliable than one that has never flown just shows how screwed up rocket economics have been for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-discussion-of-spacex-launches-edited-title/741048/747 "2018-12-03T23:58:39Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > It’s funny - we call them ‘used’ rockets instead of ‘tested’ rockets, with the assumption that a ‘used’ rocket is somehow less reliable. > > However, when a new aircraft is built, it is test flown before being released to service, and if it’s flown many times it is considered to be more reliable. Just a shift in perspective. > > At some point, SpaceX might be able to convince people that ‘flight proven’ rockets are even more reliable than ones doing their first flight. Maybe they’ll have to offer a discount when using an ‘untested’ booster… > > Our assumption that a reused booster is less reliable than one that has never flown just shows how screwed up rocket economics have been for a long time. While I agree with a lot of this, the forces a rocket is exposed to during an orbital launch and landing are many times more severe than those of a typical airplane during flight. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-discussion-of-spacex-launches-edited-title/741048/748 "2018-12-04T00:15:55Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > While I agree with a lot of this, the forces a rocket is exposed to during an orbital launch and landing are many times more severe than those of a typical airplane during flight. And a jet aircraft is exposed to far more severe forces than a prop plane, which is exposed to far more forces than, say, a bicycle. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-discussion-of-spacex-launches-edited-title/741048/749 "2018-12-04T00:16:36Z")
Clearly so, but that doesn’t mean it needs to be less reliable. In almost any complex mechanical device, failures can be plotted on a ‘bathtub curve’, with the first few hours of operation having the highest failure rates due to design and manufacturing errors, then the error rate drops and goes low and flat for a long time before it starts to rise again as parts wear out normally. As SpaceX gathers more operational data, we should learn where those points on the grah are, and at some point a booster that has flown two or three times may be demonstrably more reliable than a fresh one which may have hidden manufacturing defects. Time will tell. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-discussion-of-spacex-launches-edited-title/741048/750 "2018-12-04T02:21:22Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Clearly so, but that doesn’t mean it needs to be less reliable. In almost any complex mechanical device, failures can be plotted on a ‘bathtub curve’, with the first few hours of operation having the highest failure rates due to design and manufacturing errors, then the error rate drops and goes low and flat for a long time before it starts to rise again as parts wear out normally. > > As SpaceX gathers more operational data, we should learn where those points on the grah are, and at some point a booster that has flown two or three times may be demonstrably more reliable than a fresh one which may have hidden manufacturing defects. Time will tell. An excellent observation. I was going to joke that Flash Gordon and Brick Bradford land rockets without error, but you have made an excellent point. ---
**Author:** ![Alex\_from\_CB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/278dde/32.png) [@Alex\_from\_CB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex_from_CB)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-discussion-of-spacex-launches-edited-title/741048/751 "2018-12-04T16:34:07Z")
This afternoon’s SpaceX launch was scrubbed. Was scheduled for 1:38 PM with no window. Is now scheduled for tomorrow, 12/5 at 1:16 pm. Seems the food bars that were packed for the 40 rats making the trip to the space station were noted to have mold. Can’t have rats eating moldy food bars now, can we? This is probably better since it’s quite overcast here in CB this morning and should be much clearer tomorrow. Will try again tomorrow going to my super secret location to watch the launch and the landing due 8 minutes after the launch. BTW, this will be the 1st landing on land here since the February Falcon Heavy and it’s dual rockets landing. Didn’t know there was such a thing as rat food bars. Wonder if there’s rat size Tang containers as well just to wash it all down. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-discussion-of-spacex-launches-edited-title/741048/752 "2018-12-05T18:39:55Z")
[The CRS-16 mission happened today](https://www.spacex.com/webcast). The Dragon capsule is on its way to a rendezvous with the ISS, but [the first stage did not land successfully](https://clips.twitch.tv/CleverSpineyEggPrimeMe). Alex, did you see the landing attempt? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-discussion-of-spacex-launches-edited-title/741048/753 "2018-12-05T19:03:26Z")
Watched it live from the parking lot. It’s a popular pastime at this company. ---
**Author:** ![Alex\_from\_CB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/278dde/32.png) [@Alex\_from\_CB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex_from_CB)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-discussion-of-spacex-launches-edited-title/741048/754 "2018-12-05T20:28:29Z")
I saw most of the landing. I was south and west of LZ1 and slightly blocked from seeing just the last few (50-100ft,) I’m guessing. I’ve seen several of these landings including the Falcon Heavy’s twins last Feb. Noticed the rocket today was swinging side to side much more than any of the previous I’d seen. The last 20-30 seconds of drop were very different. I assumed the high ground winds (20+ knots) were the reason for the 1st stage movement. I didn’t know it went swimming until I returned home. Go to Spacex website and watch the 1st stage descend. It starts spinning and the SpaceX eomployess all gasp. Then the shut off the vid of the landing… Seen some nice vids of the landing offshore probably on Wakeupcocoabeach. It landed up right just off shore. Stood up with have the rocket above the water surface then with a bright flash, broke off at the water’s surface. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-discussion-of-spacex-launches-edited-title/741048/755 "2018-12-05T22:52:42Z")
The first stage didn’t crash. It was just an off-design landing mode. Pretty impressive that the descent was as controlled as it was. The stage was [spinning like a mofo](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1070399755526656000) for much of the way down. Apparently the hydraulic pump went out and they lost all grid fin authority. Pretty nifty that you can see how the spin rate goes down dramatically when the legs deploy (ballerina effect). Also, a nicely tracked [external video](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1070446975642812416). Finally, it’s good to see their fail-safe descent trajectory in action. The stage first targets a landing point in water, and only at the last moments retargets to land when everything is going nominally. It actually made quite a soft landing and they may be able to recover some components at least (the expensive grid fins if nothing else). ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-discussion-of-spacex-launches-edited-title/741048/756 "2018-12-05T22:56:04Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > The first stage didn’t crash. It was just an off-design landing mode. > > Pretty impressive that the descent was as controlled as it was. The stage was [spinning like a mofo](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1070399755526656000) for much of the way down. Apparently the hydraulic pump went out and they lost all grid fin authority. Pretty nifty that you can see how the spin rate goes down dramatically when the legs deploy (ballerina effect). > > Also, a nicely tracked [external video](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1070446975642812416). > > Finally, it’s good to see their fail-safe descent trajectory in action. The stage first targets a landing point in water, and only at the last moments retargets to land when everything is going nominally. It actually made quite a soft landing and they may be able to recover some components at least (the expensive grid fins if nothing else). “off-design landing mode” sounds like a nice euphemism. Thanks for the link to the video. How well does titanium stand up to salt water? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-discussion-of-spacex-launches-edited-title/741048/757 "2018-12-05T23:08:48Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > “off-design landing mode” sounds like a nice euphemism. I stole it [from the Russians](https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/10/russias-only-aircraft-carrier-damaged-as-its-floating-dry-dock-sinks/). Titanium is pretty resistant to salt water corrosion. Assuming there was no structural damage, I’m sure they can reuse those at least. Maybe the avionics, too. I’d guess the airframe and engines are a writeoff, though Musk says they “may” try to reuse the stage for an internal mission. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-discussion-of-spacex-launches-edited-title/741048/758 "2018-12-06T00:26:52Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > I stole it [from the Russians](https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/10/russias-only-aircraft-carrier-damaged-as-its-floating-dry-dock-sinks/). We can stop dropping bombs and shooting missiles at carriers and throw cranes at them! ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-discussion-of-spacex-launches-edited-title/741048/759 "2018-12-06T01:07:16Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > We can stop dropping bombs and shooting missiles at carriers and throw cranes at them! “carriers”? plural? there’s only one carrier left in the world still in operation that I could even _potentially_ see us needing to drop a crane on. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-discussion-of-spacex-launches-edited-title/741048/760 "2018-12-06T22:53:11Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > “carriers”? plural? there’s only one carrier left in the world still in operation that I could even _potentially_ see us needing to drop a crane on. We should probably keep two or three cranes on hand. You can’t be too careful, and those Godless Commies are sneaky! Aren’t the Chinese building one? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-discussion-of-spacex-launches-edited-title/741048.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-discussion-of-spacex-launches-edited-title/741048.md?page=39)