# Continuing the discussion from Do you believe in demons and is pornography sinful?: **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 23, 2025, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247 "2025-07-23T23:33:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/41 "2025-07-25T00:10:47Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Telling other people not to engage with someone That did not happen. The implied message was to not engage in trying to reason the poster out of the (apparent, if not creative writing) hallucinations. There was no messaging regarding other engagement that was going on. Just pointing out that someone who actually is experiencing something as their reality will not be helped by persistent argument with them about that. > [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Something is only pathological if it significantly interferes with daily functioning. Worthy of highlighting. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/42 "2025-07-25T00:25:29Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > It is telling that mods even have a hard time even understanding the actual objection, to the point of commenting on a different one it its place, which seems to be 1: either I am not explaining myself or 2: The group think is so ingrained that it is not noticed. I don’t understand it either: your OP was clear enough to me. I’m especially disturbed that a mod claimed you believed something you didn’t based on her wrong interpretation, though it wasn’t an IMHO mod. * * * > [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > That particular comment, yes, crossed a line for not being in the Pit, IMHO. Maybe we are starting to get a consensus that this particular comment was not appropriate for IMHO? That may not influence the mods, though. > [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > So talking to a doctor about it is pretty good advice. I agree, and I don’t think anyone here is disputing that. * * * > [@DSeid](#): > > > [@DemonTree](#): > > > > Telling other people not to engage with someone > > That did not happen. > > The implied message was to not engage in trying to reason the poster out of the (apparent, if not creative writing) hallucinations. Okay, telling another person not to engage on this particular subject. Even if they were hallucinations, that does not necessarily imply an inability to recognise them as such, though that might be the case. Besides that, truth has never been a defence to attacking the poster AFAIK. It would be too hard to determine in general. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/43 "2025-07-25T01:03:17Z")
@DemonTree, could you please tell us the exact phrase we should use to tell someone that what they are experiencing is so far out of the norm that a normal conversation just isn’t possible and that they should seek professional help as soon as possible? You keep saying that we aren’t doing it right, so please tell us the right way to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/44 "2025-07-25T01:06:01Z")
Maybe just don’t respond in the thread, at all. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/45 "2025-07-25T01:09:55Z")
Would that be your response if the person had a broken leg but ignored the fact that medical attention was most assuredly required? Would you advise us to just tell him to hobble around and ignore the problem? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/46 "2025-07-25T01:14:53Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Would that be your response if the person had a broken leg but ignored the fact that medical attention was most assuredly required? Ummm, apparently that other posters should not reply to them. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/47 "2025-07-25T01:21:44Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > could you please tell us the exact phrase we should use to tell someone that what they are experiencing is so far out of the norm that a normal conversation just isn’t possible and that they should seek professional help as soon as possible? > You keep saying that we aren’t doing it right, so please tell us the right way to do it. I’m going to give this my best shot. Hey I think you need to see a doctor on this, and I don’t think I can offer anything else at this point. I wish you the best. Technically that last line is not required, but I added it for niceness. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/48 "2025-07-25T01:24:55Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Okay, telling another person not to engage on this particular subject. Nah. Discussing the subject with either poster is fine and not discouraged. There was a statement that presented an opinion that many of us share from personal experiences: arguing with someone about the irrationality of their hallucinations or delusions is not helpful. There was no personal attack in that comment. There was no encouragement to not engage with the poster about the subject of their experienced reality. There was at worst some implied junior modding over how to engage, if you squint a particular way. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/49 "2025-07-25T01:25:58Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > It might be irrational, unreasonable and untrue, but that doesn’t make it pathological. Something is only pathological if it significantly interferes with daily functioning. The author of that thread does report interference with daily functioning. kanicbird, in the other hand, seemed to be posting from an okay place. That seems like an important difference. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/50 "2025-07-25T01:38:46Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > The author of that thread does report interference with daily functioning. It was not clear to me if the reported perception of being harassed by these demons was allegedly ongoing or not or if it was interfering with their function. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > if the person had a broken leg but ignored the fact that medical attention was most assuredly required? You as an untrained outside observer don’t know that they’ve broken their leg. What you can observe is what we don’t know here: the person is in obvious pain and ability function is impaired. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/51 "2025-07-25T09:19:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > @DemonTree, could you please tell us the exact phrase we should use to tell someone that what they are experiencing is so far out of the norm that a normal conversation just isn’t possible and that they should seek professional help as soon as possible? I’m the wrong person to ask for advice on that. I’m bad at phrasing things tactfully, and I don’t have any relevant experience. That’s the main reason I didn’t reply to the OP in the original thread. I’m sorry for being short with you last night, but I didn’t think your questioning of **kanicbird** in that thread was very constructive. It wasn’t urgent to reply, either, since as he described them, his problems were in the past. If you genuinely want advice on how to be more helpful, there are other people here in this thread who are much more qualified to give it. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/52 "2025-07-25T10:32:48Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I mean, the American Psychological Association disagrees. There are a lot of factors that go into cultural beliefs that have nothing to do with mental illness. Like, political power. The APA is just pandering to irrational people who have lots of money and power. And a history of violence. It’s the same principle as the USSR throwing political dissidents into mental institutions; “sanity” being defined according to how well it matches the dogma of those in power. Would we be having this same conversation if the person in the linked thread talked about seeing goblins? Probably not, because people who believe in goblins have no _power._ ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/53 "2025-07-25T11:08:16Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Would we be having this same conversation if the person in the linked thread talked about seeing goblins? I think we’d be having exactly the same conversation, actually. I think belief in succubi and goblins is at about the same level on the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/54 "2025-07-25T11:19:44Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I think we’d be having exactly the same conversation, actually. I think belief in succubi and goblins is at about the same level on the SDMB. It’s not about _belief,_ it’s about power. Christianity is powerful, goblin believers are not. The more powerful an obviously false belief is, the more most people feel obligated to treat it as something deserving respect and deference. So people here (and elsewhere) make a big deal about how important it is to respect Christianity, but don’t hesitate to mock some politically powerless cult despite both being just as baseless. Much less isolated fantasies like a goblin believer. So yes, I think that if the person said they were seeing goblins the original thread would be more focused on mockery & advice for getting medical care, and _this_ thread likely wouldn’t even exist. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/55 "2025-07-25T11:23:53Z")
Fyi, mocking the poster isn’t allowed outside the pit. You know, attack the post, not the poster, and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/56 "2025-07-25T12:29:32Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I’m the wrong person to ask for advice on that. Then you are the wrong person to tell us that something can be said, but that everyone is saying it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/57 "2025-07-25T12:58:42Z")
Let me tell you why I have problems with posters that declare that they see demons. If they see demons where others see nothing, then that _might_ indicate that they see, or that they in the future might see, other hallucinations. On the other hand, if they see demons where others just see people, then questions have to be asked: Do these demons have any rights? Do these demons deserve to be treated fairly? Is it wrong to lie to these demons? Is it wrong to bring harm to these demons? Is it wrong, if possible, to destroy these demons? _Very_ rarely do people start seeing demons where other people don’t because they think demons are just another cool entity to coexist with. Belief in the physical presence of demons is usually accompanied by a declaration of opposition to them, and this is the problem I have. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/58 "2025-07-25T16:17:12Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > _Very_ rarely do people start seeing demons where other people don’t because they think demons are just another cool entity to coexist with. Belief in the physical presence of demons is usually accompanied by a declaration of opposition to them, and this is the problem I have. Part of the definition of “demon” is that they are evil. If a person didn’t have a problem with it, they wouldn’t label it as a demon, but as some other kind of entity. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/59 "2025-07-25T16:20:28Z")
Exactly. Labeling human beings as “demons” is inherently dangerous. You are denying another person’s humanity…and that can be used to justify what we see as inhumanity. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/60 "2025-07-25T16:24:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Exactly. Labeling human beings as “demons” is inherently dangerous. I have long had a problem with the demonization of people. either figuratively or literally. It’s a rather extreme form of dehumanization. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247.md?page=4)