# Continuing the discussion from Do you believe in demons and is pornography sinful?: **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 23, 2025, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247 "2025-07-23T23:33:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/61 "2025-07-25T17:36:42Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > The second point is more about general board culture. We tend to want verifiable, repeatable evidence. I think this is the larger issue here, where things like Occam’s Razor and “the plural of anecdote is not data” is just the tip of the iceberg. In a culture that has basically ended up in a place where much is the same. The same few respected posters in their field are the ones to answer the question which most go along with, if you step outside the lines here of what is acceptable you tend to get posts that tend to have others isolate you. And that isolation culture is so deeply ingrained apparently mods can not recognize it. Allowing it to continue. BTW this was not the first time I posted this observation but it was dismissed. I will point out as a example here, where mods have not even understood the complaint I was making, and substituted another and answered as if I was making that complaint instead, though @DemonTree indicated that 1: I was clear in message, 2: @DemonTree was also curious why the mods could not understand my complaint. I do see this as evidence of a group think mentality is present here. I have seen posts in the past along the lines of what happened to our board, to use an analogy there is an episode from Star Trek (STTNG), where the crew visit the Q continuum, where though the Q is a race of god like beings, it’s as boring as heck there. Nothing changes. At one time this board was more analogous to a normal Star Trek episode, an adventure in debate and exploration. I believe we have lost that due to this culture of fighting ignorance brining us to a single point of convergence that stopped our growth. Which also gets me to my point. I posted in the linked thread to let that OP know they were not alone in such struggles. But, though “the plural of anecdote is not data”, what I did and how I did it actually worked. Looking back at such a terrifying time, I would not trade it for professional services and feel I am a much better person for it, and it worked in amazing ways that I am thankful for. Now with that said, I’m not suggesting the other OP should, but it has its success too. And looking at some alternate successes may help being life and progress back to the board if it was more acceptable. Or may not IDK. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/62 "2025-07-25T18:12:25Z")
Meh. In the real world if I came across a stranger sharing with me about their seeing demons as a result of excessive porn consumption and masturbation, asking if I have also experienced demons or believe in them, I’d likely not interact with them at all. I think few would. Here? There was interaction. Answering the specific questions about demon belief and about sin as a concept. And questioning the person’s mental health. Inquiring about their function. Discussing how best to interact with someone sharing their hallucinations and delusions. So on. Not isolating at all. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/63 "2025-07-25T21:05:58Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I think we’d be having exactly the same conversation, actually. I think belief in succubi and goblins is at about the same level on the SDMB. Yeah, me too. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It’s not about _belief,_ it’s about power. Christianity is powerful, goblin believers are not. The more powerful an obviously false belief is, the more most people feel obligated to treat it as something deserving respect and deference. Whatever happens in the wider world, people on the Dope do not as a rule treat Christianity as something deserving respect and deference, most especially not those groups that believe in literal demons (I guess some exist?) * * * > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Then you are the wrong person to tell us that something can be said, but that everyone is saying it wrong. I didn’t post in this thread to say that, but because I agreed with the OP that the comment he highlighted (which was not one of yours) should have been modded, and because so many other posters (including a mod!) were replying to a different complaint instead of the one actually made. However, the fact I can’t necessarily do better myself doesn’t mean I don’t have an idea of what not to do. Anyway, from your next comment, it appears helping the poster in question was not your sole aim, anyway. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Let me tell you why I have problems with posters that declare that they see demons. > If they see demons where others see nothing, then that _might_ indicate that they see, or that they in the future might see, other hallucinations. > On the other hand, if they see demons where others just see people, then questions have to be asked: As **kanicbird** only mentioned seeing these ‘demons’ in dreams, and said he no longer does, I think this is more of an issue with the OP of the original thread. But if someone is actually hallucinating, almost any hallucination could potentially be dangerous. * * * > [@kanicbird](#): > > At one time this board was more analogous to a normal Star Trek episode, an adventure in debate and exploration. I believe we have lost that due to this culture of fighting ignorance brining us to a single point of convergence that stopped our growth. I suspect the rising age of the average poster has something to do with this. Life is more of an adventure for young people. The falling number of participants also makes the board more cliquish, unfortunately, but that isn’t going to change. The only thing that could reasonably be asked is that mods try to ensure they have listened and correctly understood any complaints before responding. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/64 "2025-07-25T22:20:43Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Here? There was interaction. Answering the specific questions about demon belief and about sin as a concept. And questioning the person’s mental health. Inquiring about their function. Discussing how best to interact with someone sharing their hallucinations and delusions. So on. > > Not isolating at all. And add a general acceptance and comfort of how things are and nothing more is needed 🙂 > [@DemonTree](#): > > I suspect the rising age of the average poster has something to do with this. Yes I’m sure this is also a factor, including the changing function of the internet. Who has time to SDMB a question when AI can give some immediate answers and YouTube can show you how if that is needed. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/65 "2025-07-25T22:35:00Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > And add a general acceptance and comfort of how things are and nothing more is needed 🙂 I am honestly not sure what you mean here? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/66 "2025-07-25T22:37:03Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I am honestly not sure what you mean here? People aren’t open to the idea of literal demons walking around and interacting with people, as something we should accept because of one person’s testimony. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/67 "2025-07-25T22:47:20Z")
First please let me make this clear, this is nothing personal, just this post gave me an opportunity to further provide an example of perhaps why this board is stagnating. Your above comment: > [@DSeid](#): > > I’d likely not interact with them at all. I think few would. I think is indicative of the stagnation and also particularly isolation that is ingrained here and done unknowingly since you end with: > [@DSeid](#): > > Not isolating at all. Which seems to indicate that you were unaware that you just posted a comment of promoting isolation to other posters as the ‘norm’ while later saying it’s not, and most likely believing it yourself. It’s gotten to the point that some posters and some mods may not be realizing it as it has become so ingrained into the SDMB culture. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/68 "2025-07-25T22:52:32Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > People aren’t open to the idea of literal demons walking around and interacting with people, as something we should accept because of one person’s testimony. But people can easier accept that other people believe they have experienced such a thing. And that experience can result in some changes, both positive and or negative. Further those positive experiences, now will change their view of reality because that’s what worked for them. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/69 "2025-07-25T22:58:34Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > But people can easier accept that other people believe they have experienced such a thing. And that experience can result in some changes, both positive and or negative. Further those positive experiences, now will change their view of reality because that’s what worked for them. Sure, a hallucination is real even if what was hallucinated wasn’t. And that experience can affect a person. I’ve had a few in my life, and they impacted me for sure. I don’t even think it’s all that rare. And I don’t see why it wouldn’t be worthy of discussion. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/70 "2025-07-25T23:24:22Z")
You are confused. The point is the contrast between behavior in other venues, especially in person, “real life”, and here. Normative behavior elsewhere _is_ isolating for those whose experience of reality is very much out of step with the vast majority of the rest of us. I neither promote that or argue against such here; I observe such. Our OP starting a conversation at an office party or such with his description of his porn consumption compulsions and his demon revealing itself, citing its legal rights, would … not result in much engagement very often. A person whose experienced reality does not intersect with the reality shared by the vast majority is isolated in the real world. That isolation is often a source of distress. Here, the OP got interaction. Here posters, myself included, responded. Discussing their contrasting non-belief in demons, their thoughts about porn, about sin, about morality. And more. Oh without question some stayed out of the thread, both out of belief the poster is a troll for some, and because of the same preference to interact with those who share a similar experience of the real world for others. But some of us engaged. Other than in a very few specific religious groups I cannot imagine a place that would have had more engagement than that. ---
**Author:** ![Disinfectus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/disinfectus/32/11085_2.png) [@Disinfectus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disinfectus)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/71 "2025-07-25T23:41:32Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > At one time this board was more analogous to a normal Star Trek episode, an adventure in debate and exploration. I believe we have lost that due to this culture of fighting ignorance brining us to a single point of convergence that stopped our growth. I’ve been here for at least 25 years, and this board has been dedicated to fighting ignorance for at least that long, and likely for its entire existence. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2025, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/72 "2025-07-26T00:28:51Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Other than in a very few specific religious groups I cannot imagine a place that would have had more engagement than that. Perhaps I was mistaken on how I took your post. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2025, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/73 "2025-07-26T00:33:13Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Part of the definition of “demon” is that they are evil. Eh, not really. Even ignoring many modern revisionings of demons, the term is used to refer to non-evil beings in many cultures and subcultures. Japanese Yōkai come to mind as not-inherently-evil demons. Or for a European example, Maxwell’s Demon. Now to be fair, the poster in the other thread definitely _did_ mean the “evil” variety of demon. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2025, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/74 "2025-07-26T01:13:36Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Eh, not really. No, really. It is _literally_ the definition in English. > **[Definition of DEMON](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/demon)** > > an evil spirit; a source or agent of evil, harm, distress, or ruin; an attendant power or spirit : genius… See the full definition > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > . Japanese Yōkai come to mind as not-inherently-evil demons. Yokai are not demons. That’s an entire class of supernatural creatures from Japan. “Demon” is a term from western culture. You’re conflating two different things. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Or for a European example, Maxwell’s Demon. That’s not actually a demon, but rather a “[daimon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daimon)” from Greek mythology, which is neither good nor evil. Such hypothetical beings are sometimes used as tools in thought experiments, and are often misidentified as “demons” because of a confusion between the terms. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2025, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/75 "2025-07-26T01:22:48Z")
As I understand Christian demonology the word Jesus used for “demon” in the New Testament is δαιμόνιον (daimonion), and various forms of that, which is the same word used in ancient Greek to refer to a spirit or deity, though not always with a negative connotation. As such it is generally taken that Jesus reveled the evil nature of these beings, so the greek deamon and the biblical demon is the same being from that perspective, and always evil regardless of what others may thing. Even to the point of using information from Greek mythology to better understand these beings. They also sometimes relate it to the same being in Islam as well. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2025, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/76 "2025-07-26T01:30:57Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > As such it is generally take that Jesus reveled the evil nature of these beings, so the greek deamon and the biblical demon is the same being. That’s an interesting philosophical exercise that doesn’t do anything to alter what the word means in English. Sometimes words change meanings when they evolve. For example, the Greek “daemonion” became the Latin “[daemonium](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/daemonium)”, and that Latin term usually was reserved for evil spirits (as opposed to the Latin “daemon” which was neutral). That Latin evil connotation carried over into English, where it became an integral part of the definition. In any case, demons are universally considered evil in western culture, and evil is part of the definition. So when a poster comes on to complain about demons, they aren’t going to be speaking about benevolent entities unless they are misusing the term. I also don’t know why this is particularly relevant to this discussion anyway. I think we all know what a demon is, and why the OP in the original thread was concerned about their belief that they have a relationship with one. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2025, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/77 "2025-07-26T02:49:25Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Yokai are not demons. Tell that to the translators. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2025, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/78 "2025-07-26T03:12:12Z")
Translators have a difficult job. What _should_ a translator do when there isn’t a specific word that means the same thing but one is pretty close? You could just not translate it and use it almost as a proper noun name? Use a complex several word phrase each time? Or just use the word that seems close enough. I have a hard enough time finding the right words in my one language so I won’t begrudge them using one that is close enough. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2025, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/79 "2025-07-26T04:10:04Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Tell that to the translators. What translators? Are you sure you aren’t confusing [yokai](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y%C5%8Dkai) with [oni](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oni)? The concept of yokai doesn’t really map very well with any specific English word or concept, but “demon” is an especially bad translation. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2025, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247/80 "2025-07-26T05:24:47Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > What translators? Are you sure you aren’t confusing [yokai](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y%C5%8Dkai) with [oni](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oni)? No, _Yōkai_. [Example](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuyasha#Plot): > In 1496 Japan, humans and demons (_[yōkai](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y%C5%8Dkai)_) battle over the Shikon Jewel (四魂の玉, _Shikon no Tama_; lit. “The Jewel of Four Souls”), which is said to grant any wish I’ve consistently seen the terms used interchangeably. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/continuing-the-discussion-from-do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021247.md?page=5)