# Contractors are in charge of interrogation in Iraq?!?!?! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 30, 2004, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contractors-are-in-charge-of-interrogation-in-iraq/242847 "2004-04-30T13:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![CTB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9a140/32.png) [@CTB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CTB)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contractors-are-in-charge-of-interrogation-in-iraq/242847/21 "2004-04-30T20:13:44Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > I remember reading that security contractors would be subject to Illinois law if they were contracted there… or Virginia law… etc… I didn’t understand the logic of it. I suppose the US states have more autonomy so the contracted have to follow one states law. Now don’t know about “mercs”. Remember that the USA doesn’t allow for its soldiers to be judged by any other court than their own. Interesting. Do you recall at all where you may have come across that information. I would personally feel so much better about this event if I knew that there was someone who can and will punish the non-military personnel that were involved. Those who partook in this kind of shit need to be publicly villified. Not just the pres saying that [url=http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&u=/ap/20040430/ap\_on\_go\_pr\_wh/bush\_prisoners\_6] “I didn’t like it one bit.” > [@Rashak Mani](#): > > I know its not nice saying US soldiers aren’t the brightest people… but the common grunt which obviously are some of those in the photos aren’t the smartest people. Americans USUALLY seek higher paying jobs if they can… Pat Tillman excepted. The US military are much more demanding than they used to be… but it still attracts SOME limited kinds of people, as would any military. Even if they aren’t stupid… they are still 19-20 years old with guns and power. I considered myself stupid at 20 years of age… much more so than today. I just avoid doing the same stupid things of before… I manage new and creative stupids. Well, we agree on the danger of sending our children there at least. Intellectual acumen has nothing to do with it. If you take young men and women, fire them up for a fight with invective, and then ask them to then protect the same people they were supposed to kill, this type of shit happens. That is why any real military leadership would have planned for post-occupation issues like this. You don’t ask front line forces to act as guards or as policemen. It just doesn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contractors-are-in-charge-of-interrogation-in-iraq/242847/22 "2004-04-30T21:05:15Z")
Funny that no one mentioned that its a female soldier showing up with the biggest grins in all the photos. You’d think a chick would be wary of sexual harrasment… sad. I sent an email with the articles about prisoner abuse and a [cartoon about Saddam](http://www.msnbc.com/comics/editorial_content.asp?sFile=tt040430) with the following saying: Plus ca change, plus c’est le meme chose (the more things change… the more they are the same) The abuse was predictable… the victors over the vanquished. Just because they are americans doesn’t mean they are perfect. Once you get the guns out… its hard to put the cat in the bag again. War is hell… (unless your a comfy politician it seems.) Vietnam brought out some nasty things in people… Iraq is doing the same. ---
**Author:** ![seriousart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@seriousart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seriousart)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contractors-are-in-charge-of-interrogation-in-iraq/242847/23 "2004-04-30T22:17:14Z")
Not to be left out, British troops got in on the act, too. [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk\_politics/3675215.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3675215.stm) This just keeps getting worse and worse. ---
**Author:** ![rngadam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/97f17d/32.png) [@rngadam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rngadam)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contractors-are-in-charge-of-interrogation-in-iraq/242847/24 "2004-04-30T22:50:12Z")
What I find really frustrating is that we are being told that this is just the acts of a few soldiers, nothing to worry about… I call bullshit on that. If these soldiers thought it was A-OK to do this and TAKE PICTURES OF IT, what the hell is going on with soldiers that are not stupid enough to take incriminating pictures??? Somewhere in Iraq, some Americans soldiers are digging graves for Iraqis that were “interrogated” a little bit too harshly… And we’ll never know about it because they’ve been given carte blanche! “Isolated incident” my ass. These kind of situations will continue until humanity realize that the capacity for so-called evil is in each of us. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contractors-are-in-charge-of-interrogation-in-iraq/242847/25 "2004-05-01T05:41:37Z")
> [@rngadam](#): > > What I find really frustrating is that we are being told that this is just the acts of a few soldiers, nothing to worry about… > I call bullshit on that. > If these soldiers thought it was A-OK to do this and TAKE PICTURES OF IT, what the hell is going on with soldiers that are not stupid enough to take incriminating pictures??? This may be true. It may be true for the immediate group that these people (soldiers/mercenaries), belong to. It may be true for the entire US contingent in Iraq. The larger the group, the less likely it seems that this sort of thing would be condoned. That they documented what they did could be merely a sign that they thought they woudln’t get caught, rather than a sign that they didn’t think they were doing somethings wrong, or opposed to thinking that they wouldn’t get in trouble if they were caught. > [@rngadam](#): > > Somewhere in Iraq, some Americans soldiers are digging graves for Iraqis that were “interrogated” a little bit too harshly… And we’ll never know about it because they’ve been given carte blanche! Sadly true. Even if this is “just an isolated incident” or “just a series of isolated incidences” it doesn’t serve to lessen the occupied’s outrage against the occupiers. The fact that these sorts of things have happened, (and don’t doubt that Iraqi’s undoubtedly have known about these sorts things before these pics surfaced), is enough. Of course, if this were/is, in fact, endemic to the US contingent in Iraq the outrage would be even greater. Not putting this investigation into the spotlight is an exceptionally poor, and fundamentally flawed PR move. Accusations against the US of suppressing this sort of thing are undoubtedly flying in Iraq and the Arab world. Hey, Pentagon, make sure and tell UbL he’s welcome for the free PR, (again and some more), because I’m sure he’s thankin’ ya. If I’m not too late by the time I post this, Allow me to pre-empt the comparisons between these acts and those of Hussein and his crew. Of course these things are not as bad as some of what certain Iraqi Baathists did. They are, of course, much worse than what America does. So, yeah, the guys got off lucky that they weren’t being tortured by Hussein’s crew. BFD. > [@rngadam](#): > > “Isolated incident” my ass. These kind of situations will continue until humanity realize that the capacity for so-called evil is in each of us. Reminded me of this: **To do evil a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good** … Ideology - that is what gives devildoing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination. That is the social theory which helps to make his acts seem good instead of bad in his own and others’ eyes, so that he won’t hear reproaches and curses but will receive praise and honors. – Alexander Solzhenitsyn ---
**Author:** ![Kel\_Varnsen\_Latex\_Division](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@Kel\_Varnsen\_Latex\_Division](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kel_Varnsen_Latex_Division)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contractors-are-in-charge-of-interrogation-in-iraq/242847/26 "2004-05-01T05:43:43Z")
From RTFirefly’s link: > [@](#): > > This is the body of an Iraqi man who died of beatings at the hands of the American soldiers. This is the “freedom” that we brought to Iraqis like this one. Isn’t freedom so wonderful this way? Did Americans kill this man? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contractors-are-in-charge-of-interrogation-in-iraq/242847/27 "2004-05-01T05:50:32Z")
I see that I’ve missed a lot when I missed my daily news fix. The PotUS has come out and addressed this issue. Good for him. Good for all the ‘us’. Good for all the ‘them’. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contractors-are-in-charge-of-interrogation-in-iraq/242847/28 "2004-05-01T05:56:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Did Americans kill this man? Are we in a position to deny it to the world? We have tortured prisoners in an occupied country. We did. Us. We are the electorate that gave our leader, George Bush, the authority to go to Iraq, and torture prisoners of war. The criminal responsibility goes all the way up the chain of command to him, and to you, and to me. We should weep from shame. Tris ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contractors-are-in-charge-of-interrogation-in-iraq/242847/29 "2004-05-01T06:02:37Z")
I love the conservative response: “Hey, but they were tortured under Saddam.” The unspoken implication is hey, torture and humiliation is no big deal for these people, maybe they sort of even like it or expect it! I like it almost as much as the “Saddam was evil, he bombed his own people indescrimately!” (a few months pass, we take over, things are going badly in a few towns) “We should just bomb these cities to the ground, teach those Iraqis a lesson about our authority!” All morality aside, this was a ghasty PR blunder, and a clear failure of training, planning, and caring. The military is investigating, and the President is condemning, but the middle east PR cat’s out of the bag, and the fact is, we only know about THESE incidents because people were stupid enough to pass around photos after the fact. Nobody was keeping track during the fact, when it actually mattered. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contractors-are-in-charge-of-interrogation-in-iraq/242847/30 "2004-05-01T06:07:17Z")
> [@Triskadecamus](#): > > We have tortured prisoners in an occupied country. We did. Us. We are the electorate that gave our leader, George Bush, the authority to go to Iraq, and torture prisoners of war. That’s overblowing it. At worst, what we have here on the part of our leaders is negligence and arrogance in how they set things up and oversaw them. That they would want pointless torture and humiliation is certainly not the case, and no one, certainly not the American people, gave anyone the authority to torture anybody. However, it is our responsibility as an occupying power to see that this does not happen, and in this case we failed in that responsibility. Anything more has yet to be shown. Besides, it’s all Clinton’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![iamme99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/57b2e6/32.png) [@iamme99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamme99)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contractors-are-in-charge-of-interrogation-in-iraq/242847/31 "2004-05-01T10:22:51Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > But our soldiers are HEROES! All of them! Something like this CAN’T happen in America! > > The saddest part of this whole thing - and the acts themselves are saddening beyond thought - is the lack of coverage in the media. I mean, what the hell are they there for? It is outrageous that something like this can happen and get no media play, and is relegated to those anti-war non-patriotic whackos who can’t be trusted. Close your eyes, America, and it will go away. I agree! There was a one column story (no pics) on page 12 of the San Francisco Chronicle on Thursday but no follow-up on Friday. There are a couple of AP stories on the newspaper portal (below). I think American mainstream media is really afraid of being accused of undermining the war effort and troop morale by going to deep into these stories. 4/30/2004 - [Arab TV stations broadcast images of U.S. forces humiliating Iraqi prisoners](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/04/30/international0956EDT0523.DTL) 5/1/2004 - [Arabs outraged by photos of U.S. troops humiliating Iraqi prisoners](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/05/01/international0425EDT0440.DTL) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contractors-are-in-charge-of-interrogation-in-iraq/242847/32 "2004-05-01T13:33:10Z")
This morning, the WaPo snuck the ‘reaction’ story just above the fold, but it was a pretty neutral headline: “U.S. Works to Calm Furor Over Photos”. And it’s underneath a really eye-catching color pic of the celebrations accompanying the EU expansion, so it’s in an easy place for the eye to miss it. Bush says the perpetrators “will be taken care of”. I’d like to see a reporter ask him how any private contractors involved will be brought to justice, seeing as how they’re outside the jurisdiction of American law. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contractors-are-in-charge-of-interrogation-in-iraq/242847/33 "2004-05-01T15:19:52Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > This morning, the WaPo snuck the ‘reaction’ story just above the fold, but it was a pretty neutral headline: “U.S. Works to Calm Furor Over Photos”. And it’s underneath a really eye-catching color pic of the celebrations accompanying the EU expansion, so it’s in an easy place for the eye to miss it. > > Bush says the perpetrators “will be taken care of”. I’d like to see a reporter ask him how any private contractors involved will be brought to justice, seeing as how they’re outside the jurisdiction of American law. Screw this “private contractors” nonsense. They’re mercenaries. And why would they be outside U.S. law? The U.S. owns Iraq. Presumably U.S. law can be applied there if someone really wants it to. ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contractors-are-in-charge-of-interrogation-in-iraq/242847/34 "2004-05-01T17:05:18Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Bush says the perpetrators “will be taken care of”. I’d like to see a reporter ask him how any private contractors involved will be brought to justice, seeing as how they’re outside the jurisdiction of American law. Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t this the same George Bush who said he would see that the administration person who leaked the name of the undercover agent who was married to the Ambassador would be caught and punished “to the full extent of the law”? ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contractors-are-in-charge-of-interrogation-in-iraq/242847/35 "2004-05-01T17:17:59Z")
> [@CTB](#): > > Sorry **flight** , I did a search for the name of the prison to see if there was a previous thread, so I guess I missed your thread :smack: . You had a better OP, too. My fault, it was a lousy title. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contractors-are-in-charge-of-interrogation-in-iraq/242847/36 "2004-05-01T18:16:47Z")
But it’s all because of the liberal media conspiracies to undermine the war and get Bush out of office, right? Oh, wait… ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contractors-are-in-charge-of-interrogation-in-iraq/242847/37 "2004-05-01T19:34:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Screw this “private contractors” nonsense. They’re mercenaries. To technically be mercs, I think they’d have to be from a foriegn nation, paid by us. They are essentially a second private volunteer army employed by the U.S. in addition to its official one, which convieniently allows us to avoid many of the legal responsibilities and headaches the use of regular army would entail. ---
**Author:** ![iamme99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/57b2e6/32.png) [@iamme99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamme99)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contractors-are-in-charge-of-interrogation-in-iraq/242847/38 "2004-05-01T21:23:13Z")
Well, the San Francisco Chronicle came through! Ran a front page story and graphic photo’s in Saturday’s paper. The story was sourced from the WP - [http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/05/01/MNG036EAET1.DTL](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/05/01/MNG036EAET1.DTL) They also added this note: > [@](#): > > Saturday, May 1, 2004 > > The Chronicle decided to run the graphic images on the front page and on Page A12 because the editors thought the public’s right to know outweighed the potentially disturbing nature of the images. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contractors-are-in-charge-of-interrogation-in-iraq/242847/39 "2004-05-01T21:32:00Z")
OMG, the SF Chronicle did something useful? I don’t know quite what to think of that. In any case, it may be relevant to this thread to note that this incident was neither isolated nor limited to Americans - the news broke this morning about alleged abuse (also with pictures) by British troops. Safe to say, the fact that we have two incidents of this with photographic evidence points to it being more widespread - imagine how many happen on a daily basis where the people aren’t stupid enough to take pictures. Included in the British story is officers knowing about it and letting it happen or even encouraging it. It is said, for every time a criminal is caught, they commit a hundred crimes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contractors-are-in-charge-of-interrogation-in-iraq/242847.md?page=1)