# Contradictory philosophies by the same artist **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 23, 2013, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contradictory-philosophies-by-the-same-artist/648165 "2013-01-23T23:58:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2013, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contradictory-philosophies-by-the-same-artist/648165/41 "2013-01-31T16:10:45Z")
All right, how about this: the first _ **Dirty Harry** _ film strongly implied that dangerous criminals are running rampant, and that tough cops need to be given free rein to stop them, by almost any means necessary. The first sequel, _ **Magnum Force** _, had just the opposite message: that cops are not above the law, and rogue cops have to be kept in check or they’ll be more dangerous than the crooks. Both films had the same star and the same director- Clint Eastwood and Don Siegel. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2013, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contradictory-philosophies-by-the-same-artist/648165/42 "2013-01-31T17:22:25Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > The OP does not refer to contradictory attitudes, it refers to contradictory “philosophies” or “messages”. The messages of, or philosophies behind the two Sting songs you mentioned are not contradictory, they are very consistent. They express different attitudes only because one expresses that of the singer himself, and the other that of a character of whom he clearly disapproves. > > The same goes for the Lennon songs. I am perfectly aware that songs and other works may be written or sung “in character” and don’t necessarily reflect the artists’ true feelings. It still counts if the characters have totally different viewpoints. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2013, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contradictory-philosophies-by-the-same-artist/648165/43 "2013-01-31T19:09:59Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > I am perfectly aware that songs and other works may be written or sung “in character” and don’t necessarily reflect the artists’ true feelings. It still counts if the characters have totally different viewpoints. OK, you’re the boss. I thought you were asking for an artist actually putting for contradictory attitudes, not pretending to. There are plenty enough examples of the former, as you and most of the other posters in the thread have shown. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contradictory-philosophies-by-the-same-artist/648165/44 "2013-01-31T20:27:04Z")
Are we including artists whose views changed drastically over time? Many fire-breathing, radical young artists have gotten far more conservative with age. A poet like William Wordsworth comes to mind. In his youth, he wrote poetry extolling the French Revolution, while in his old age, he was a Tory and a patriotic English Poet Laureate. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contradictory-philosophies-by-the-same-artist/648165/45 "2013-01-31T20:43:13Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > The Beatles said: > > _I don’t care too much for money > For money can’t buy me love_ > The Beatles also said :\* > > Money don’t get everything it’s true. > What it don’t get I can’t use. > Now gimme money (that’s what I want)\* > Any other examples where an artist has given works with such opposite messages? > > Not restricted to songs, any medium will do. Feel free to cite movies, books, etc. > [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > The Beatles may have said it, but they didn’t write it. That song was written by Berry Gordy and Janie Bradford. > > (and I know I’m picking nits) > mmm Pick away because I’m joining you. Every lyric sheet I’ve ever seen for “Can’t By Me Love”, whether analogue paper 40 years ago or digital digits today, presents the line as _I don’t care too much for money For money can’t buy me love_ I’ve never heard a Beatles recording, studio or live, where they sing the word “for.” I feel better now. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contradictory-philosophies-by-the-same-artist/648165/46 "2013-01-31T21:21:02Z")
ABBA’s Dancing Queen is “only 17,” turns on a guy, leaves him burning and then goes on to another. The young woman in “Does Your Mother Know?” gets turned down by the guy. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contradictory-philosophies-by-the-same-artist/648165/47 "2013-02-06T21:15:54Z")
Frank Sinatra’s “That’s Life” vs. “My Way.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contradictory-philosophies-by-the-same-artist/648165/48 "2013-02-06T23:57:22Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Frank Sinatra’s “That’s Life” vs. “My Way.” That’s the same philosophy! He’s been _“a puppet, a pauper, a pirate, a poet, a pawn and a king”_ – or, as he later puts it, he’s traveled each and every highway. He’s been shot down, but assures us he’ll be back on top – and since that’s _ **true,** _ he can later note that he took the blows and did it his way. He’s repeatedly found himself flat on his face, but he always picks himself back up – which means he (a) bit off more than he could chew, but then (b) spit it out and stood tall instead of kneeling. His regrets are too few to mention? I guess he doesn’t let stuff get him down. He mentions a fact he can’t deny? I guess he says the things he truly feels… ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contradictory-philosophies-by-the-same-artist/648165/49 "2013-02-07T00:29:22Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > I am perfectly aware that songs and other works may be written or sung “in character” and don’t necessarily reflect the artists’ true feelings. It still counts if the characters have totally different viewpoints. Okay then, the Beatles _Hello Goodbye_ > [@](#): > > You say “Yes”, I say “No”. > You say “Stop” and I say “Go, go, go”. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contradictory-philosophies-by-the-same-artist/648165/50 "2013-02-07T21:02:07Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > That’s the same philosophy! > > He’s been _“a puppet, a pauper, a pirate, a poet, a pawn and a king”_ – or, as he later puts it, he’s traveled each and every highway. He’s been shot down, but assures us he’ll be back on top – and since that’s _ **true,** _ he can later note that he took the blows and did it his way. He’s repeatedly found himself flat on his face, but he always picks himself back up – which means he (a) bit off more than he could chew, but then (b) spit it out and stood tall instead of kneeling. > > His regrets are too few to mention? I guess he doesn’t let stuff get him down. He mentions a fact he can’t deny? I guess he says the things he truly feels… In the first song, he says he’ll continue living no matter what (at least until the last line); in the second, he’s resigned to death. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contradictory-philosophies-by-the-same-artist/648165/51 "2013-02-08T00:59:39Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > In the first song, he says he’ll continue living no matter what (at least until the last line); in the second, he’s resigned to death. The first song ends with him saying he’s thought of _ **quitting,** _ but that his heart won’t buy it – adding that he’d curl up and die if he didn’t think it was worth it; the second song opens with him saying the end is here. I take that to mean that (a) he’s still not committing suicide – as contemplated, but rejected, in the first song – but that (b) it’s no longer up to him: he’s about to drop dead regardless of his feelings on the matter. But the record shows that, right up until the final curtain, he took the blows and kept doing it his way; his philosophy is unchanged: the spirit is still willing, but for the first time his flesh is too weak. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4da419/32.png) [@Cazzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzi)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contradictory-philosophies-by-the-same-artist/648165/52 "2013-11-29T22:38:25Z")
Pollock once stated that his art was intuitive, from the subconscious. He also said that he was in complete control of what he was painting. > [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > The Beatles said: > > _I don’t care too much for money > For money can’t buy me love_ > The Beatles also said :\* > > Money don’t get everything it’s true. > What it don’t get I can’t use. > Now gimme money (that’s what I want)\* > Any other examples where an artist has given works with such opposite messages? > > Not restricted to songs, any medium will do. Feel free to cite movies, books, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contradictory-philosophies-by-the-same-artist/648165/53 "2013-11-29T23:47:16Z")
What a drag it is getting old… …vs. ti-i-i-ime, is on my side. ---
**Author:** ![Toxgoddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Toxgoddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxgoddess)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contradictory-philosophies-by-the-same-artist/648165/54 "2013-12-03T23:54:24Z")
Elton John sang goodbye to the yellow brick road, with the penthouses and the dogs of society, to go back to his plow. But when he was told that a honky cat should get back to the woods, he replied that he’d quit those days and his redneck ways, and the change would do him good. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contradictory-philosophies-by-the-same-artist/648165.md?page=2)