# Contributions to Politicians' Funds **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 7, 2016, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contributions-to-politicians-funds/751454 "2016-04-07T15:55:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contributions-to-politicians-funds/751454/21 "2016-04-12T14:50:29Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Do you really think politicians would completely ignore the voters and just switch sides on any old issue based on who gave a few more dollars? Pick a politician and ask yourself if you see him or her just switching like that. It doesn’t happen. Of course not. Which is why my $20 donation to a candidate is not a bribe. No candidate is going to be swayed by my $20. My $5,000,000 donation to your super PAC though. Well, that might just buy me some legislation. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contributions-to-politicians-funds/751454/22 "2016-04-12T15:14:01Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Of course not. Which is why my $20 donation to a candidate is not a bribe. No candidate is going to be swayed by my $20. > > My $5,000,000 donation to your super PAC though. Well, that might just buy me some legislation. But it’s not MY super PAC. Super PACs aren’t controlled by the candidates. A donation to a super PAC that supports a candidate isn’t the same as a donation to a candidate. (At least they aren’t supposed to be - the enforcement of the law is weak, and that’s the real solution - enforcing it). But here’s a new question - what if someone on the other side of the issue donated even more to “my” super PAC? Would I change my mind? Would that even happen? For your claim to work, you’d have to have competing interests both donating to the same candidate in an effort to outbid each other. That doesn’t happen. Each side donates to the candidate they think will support them already, with the hopes that their candidate will get elected and have the power to do what they promise. ---
**Author:** ![Clarence01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@Clarence01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clarence01)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contributions-to-politicians-funds/751454/23 "2016-04-12T17:15:03Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’m not clear if you’re saying that there is no evidence for your claims, or that there’s so much evidence that you can’t possibly provide any of it. possibly provide… not enough time… ---
**Author:** ![Clarence01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@Clarence01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clarence01)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contributions-to-politicians-funds/751454/24 "2016-04-12T17:16:43Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > The lobbyists I’ve worked with (admittedly, not a huge sample, but they are professionals who deal with politicans every day) insist that big political contributions buy\*\* access\*\* – instead of getting five minutes to meet with an aide and hand over a position paper, you might get thirty minutes to actually go over the paper with the aide. If you’re important enough, you might get to see the legislator directly, instead of having to go through the aides. The gold standard is when the legislator actually solicits the donor’s opinion. > > This can get pretty close to voting for dollars, but there’s a line somewhere, and both the legislators and lobbyists seem to know exactly where it is. great info thanks ---
**Author:** ![Clarence01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@Clarence01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clarence01)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contributions-to-politicians-funds/751454/25 "2016-04-12T17:18:29Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > When asked why he has donated money to Democrats in the past, Trump [responded](http://www.buzzfeed.com/christophermassie/trump-on-donating-to-democrats-as-a-business-person-youre-go#.oaLA3E4ZP) (bolding mine): > > \*“Look,” he said last Wednesday, “politicians are all talk, they’re no action. They don’t do the job, they don’t know what they’re doing. I know them better than anybody, Howie. I deal with all of them. And, you know, I make contributions to many of them. They’re friends, they’re this. It’s smart. It’s called being an intelligent person and a great business person. > > “But the truth is that, you have to be able to get along with—if you’re gonna be a business person, even in the United States, you wanna get along with all sides **because you’re gonna need things from everybody**. And you wanna get along with all sides, it’s very important.” \* > > Sure seems like he expected something in return for his political speech in the form of money. exactly - he’s telling it as it is out in the open. ---
**Author:** ![Clarence01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@Clarence01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clarence01)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contributions-to-politicians-funds/751454/26 "2016-04-12T17:25:23Z")
[quote=“Chronos, post:14, topic:751454”] Form 1: Donor goes to candidate and says “I’d like you to vote yes on Bill XYZ and similar bills. If you do so, I will give you money.” This is bribery, and is illegal. Form 3: Donor finds politicians who are still on the fence about XYZ. Donor gives enough money to the politician to get the politician’s attention. Representatives of the donor then go to lunch with the politician and lay out their arguments for why XYZ is a good idea. Meanwhile donors on the other side do the same thing, with the same politicians. The politician takes both sets of donations, and decides which way to vote. This is legal, and the part about laying out arguments is certainly legitimate and how the system is supposed to work, though it’s perhaps unfortunate that the way to get the politician’s attention in the first place is to give money. [QUOTE] Thanks for writing. I think you ought to take note of the similarity between these two forms. ---
**Author:** ![Clarence01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@Clarence01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clarence01)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contributions-to-politicians-funds/751454/27 "2016-04-12T17:31:27Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Do you really think politicians would completely ignore the voters and just switch sides on any old issue based on who gave a few more dollars? for some people, they have a price. for others, they adhere to principal. You hope that they are of the latter kind. ---
**Author:** ![Clarence01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@Clarence01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clarence01)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contributions-to-politicians-funds/751454/28 "2016-04-12T17:32:32Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Form 3 - if the candidate got about the same money from both sides, you can’t say the money influenced the vote much. It doesn’t work like that though. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contributions-to-politicians-funds/751454/29 "2016-04-12T18:01:16Z")
> [@Clarence01](#): > > for some people, they have a price. for others, they adhere to principal. You hope that they are of the latter kind. Name a single politician who changed their position on a major issue after an interest on the other side made more donations to him/her than he had previously recieved from the other side. And it’s not necessarily about “principle.” It’s about the voters. The voters matter much more than money. If the voters aren’t happy, money won’t help. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contributions-to-politicians-funds/751454/30 "2016-04-12T18:02:49Z")
> [@Clarence01](#): > > It doesn’t work like that though. What, logic doesn’t work that way? Yes it does. ---
**Author:** ![Clarence01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@Clarence01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clarence01)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contributions-to-politicians-funds/751454/31 "2016-04-12T18:07:07Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Name a single politician who changed their position on a major issue after an interest on the other side made more donations to him/her than he had previously recieved from the other side. Something like that you might find reading some “My life as a lobbyist” book. ---
**Author:** ![Clarence01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@Clarence01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clarence01)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contributions-to-politicians-funds/751454/32 "2016-04-12T18:09:03Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > What, logic doesn’t work that way? Yes it does. The thing you’re describing doesn’t happen. It’s not like the politician waits until there are two parties with donations have opposing views… and THEEEEN he may hear them… ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contributions-to-politicians-funds/751454/33 "2016-04-12T18:18:42Z")
> [@Clarence01](#): > > The thing you’re describing doesn’t happen. It’s not like the politician waits until there are two parties with donations have opposing views… and THEEEEN he may hear them… I didn’t say it happens. I responded to a hypothetical. But you’re wrong. The donation-listen cycle goes on and on. Donations happen, and meetings happen, and there isn’t a strict timetable where one happens first. Doesn’t matter anyway - if you think donations bring meetings, the expectation of a donation works the same way. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contributions-to-politicians-funds/751454/34 "2016-04-12T18:20:08Z")
> [@Clarence01](#): > > Something like that you might find reading some “My life as a lobbyist” book. So post an example from one of those books. ---
**Author:** ![Clarence01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@Clarence01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clarence01)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contributions-to-politicians-funds/751454/35 "2016-04-12T18:25:50Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > I didn’t say it happens. I responded to a hypothetical. It would have to happen that way if the logic in your argument was valid. ---
**Author:** ![Clarence01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@Clarence01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clarence01)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contributions-to-politicians-funds/751454/36 "2016-04-12T18:26:50Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > So post an example from one of those books. Feel free to do the same ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contributions-to-politicians-funds/751454/37 "2016-04-12T18:53:00Z")
> [@Clarence01](#): > > It would have to happen that way if the logic in your argument was valid. No it wouldn’t. A hypothetical is a hypothetical. The logic based on it is independent of whether it actually happens. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contributions-to-politicians-funds/751454/38 "2016-04-12T18:54:26Z")
> [@Clarence01](#): > > Feel free to do the same I’m not the one making a claim. You want me to post an example of something NOT happening? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contributions-to-politicians-funds/751454/39 "2016-04-12T18:55:17Z")
**Clarence** , you started off the thread asking if everyone agrees that politicians routinely adhere to a quid pro quo (in clear violation of Federal law, mind you) in order to get campaign contributions. The answer is clearly no, that not everyone believes that. So you respond that you’ve done a lot of reading, but there isn’t sufficient time for you to provide any evidence for your basic claim, which amounts to virtually every politician conducting massive violations of 18 USC 201 on an ongoing and pervasive basis. How, exactly, do you want this debate to proceed? If you can’t back up your wild assertions at all, it’s the equivalent of someone insisting that they have seen space aliens so they are real, which devolves into “Yes, I did!” and “Where’s the proof?” Is that what you want this thread to be – just a schoolyard argument? The alternative is that you can back up what you are claiming. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contributions-to-politicians-funds/751454/40 "2016-04-12T19:47:09Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > According to this article, the defense industry has given Hillary about $450,000, and they’ve given Sanders $310,000. What do you think the defense industry has extracted from Sanders as a result of those donations? [Link.](https://www.publicintegrity.org/2016/04/01/19496/defense-contractor-employees-give-most-money-hillary-clinton) Defense is a unionized industry, is it not? That might explain most of his contributions. From your cite: Two-thirds of Sanders’ total and 95 percent of his individual contributions from employees of defense contractors came in amounts of $250 or less [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contributions-to-politicians-funds/751454.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/contributions-to-politicians-funds/751454.md?page=3)