# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread #2 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 23, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531 "2020-06-23T20:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/1 "2020-06-23T20:29:27Z")
The first thread was locked due to post-count limits. I think that a thread about interactions between civilians and the police in 2020 is at least as relevant and necessary as it was when I started the first one back in 2014, so here’s the new thread ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2 "2020-06-23T20:32:26Z")
There was something in the other thread about police officers being given the go-ahead to conceal their name and badge numbers while they were on duty. Particularly when they were doing crowd control, so that nobody could identify them. And this was some sort of official pronouncement. It seems to me that if officers were to do this, then they cease to become officers of the law, and simply turn into an armed gang. It boggles the mind to think that ANYone in a responsible position would approve of this. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/3 "2020-06-23T20:39:27Z")
This was happening in Portland. Apparently, they were allowed to conceal their name tags, because there was some concern that individual officers were, or would be, doxxed. That is, they worried that exposing their names would allow people to track down their places of residence, their families, etc. The police chief apparently allowed them to cover the name tags, and instead write their city employee numbers over the top. Theoretically, this would allow officers to be identified for the purpose of complaints and other accountability issues, without directly revealing their identities to the public at large. I still think it’s bullshit, but if it worked properly and if the officers put the correct number on their uniform, they could at least still be identified and held accountable for any inappropriate use of force. > **[Police Leaders Say Portland Officers Can Cover Nametags At Protests](https://www.opb.org/news/article/portland-police-cover-name-tag-badge/)** > > Portland police leadership says officers can cover their names and badge numbers during protests, potentially creating new issues for protesters who want to identify officers who have mistreated them. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/4 "2020-06-23T20:44:02Z")
Sounds like the Portland police are then simply armed city employees. Might as well put the accounting department into the fray. Arm them and tell them to go to it. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/5 "2020-06-23T20:46:38Z")
When police used facial recognition software to go after peaceful protestors nobody bats an eye. When someone reads their name tag, cops freak out. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/6 "2020-06-23T21:05:06Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > When police used facial recognition software to go after peaceful protestors nobody bats an eye. When someone reads their name tag, cops freak out. Yeah, there does seem to be a significant double-standard here. Especially since, if the cops behave themselves and don’t violate the protesters’ constitutional rights, no-one would have any cause to target any individual cop anyway. It seems to me that any cop concerned about his or her name getting into criminal hands had to face that possibility every time they arrested or dealt with a member of the public anyway, well before these protests began. This seems like little more than a desire for lack of accountability. I wonder if there was anyone checking, before they went on the street, that they wrote their actual, correct employee ID number on their tags. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/7 "2020-06-23T21:14:12Z")
Accountability hits the nail right on the head. They’re our employees, damn it – I pay for them and I want to know EXACTLY what they’re doing at all times, just like management at my employer can go back and listen to any phone call anyone at my company makes, read any email that went to or from a company address, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2020, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/8 "2020-06-24T00:32:03Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I think that a thread about interactions between civilians and the police in 2020 is at least as relevant and necessary as it was when I started the first one back in 2014 . . . Gee, ya think? ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2020, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/9 "2020-06-24T16:17:14Z")
Don’t know if it was in the old thread but a Twitter account by T. Greg Doucette has been collecting videos of police abuses over the past couple of weeks. [Doucette Twitter](https://twitter.com/greg_doucette?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1266751520055459847&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2F2%2Ftwitter.min.html%231266751520055459847) ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2020, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/10 "2020-06-25T06:31:25Z")
At least these cops got fired, but I think this accidentally recorded incident shows what police as an instiution are like. They might just be ‘three bad apples’, but they felt confident enough to hold this conversation on th job. [Fired Wilmington cop: “We are just going to go out and start slaughtering them f—— ni—–. I can’t wait. God, I can’t wait.” [Free read] | Port City Daily](https://portcitydaily.com/local-news/2020/06/24/fired-wilmington-cop-we-are-just-going-to-go-out-and-start-slaughtering-them-f-ni-i-cant-wait-god-i-cant-wait-free-read) ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2020, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/12 "2020-06-25T12:51:18Z")
And if anyone thinks that those are the only three cops in the whole department who think and act like that, I’ve got some Florida swampland you might be interested in. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2020, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/13 "2020-06-25T14:58:12Z")
That’s some seriously disturbing shit right there, that is. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2020, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/14 "2020-06-25T15:00:42Z")
If anyone wants to read the narrative from the city’s report about those Wilmington cops, I’ve uploaded it to my Google Drive. > **[Wilmington NC police fired - narrative.pdf](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Onrs6qknMhjCJ6nJdwCdAbRIt4gv8liC/view?usp=sharing&fbclid=IwAR1tSN9KCRLrMbh9Nu_lkpMm-CUWy0-ld485-0V7OWJXXXWXn-R4cugSJRM)** > > Google Drive file. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2020, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/15 "2020-06-25T15:15:37Z")
> [@](#): > > Moore and Gilmore argued they were “not racist,” with Moore adding he “doesn’t normally speak like that but was feeding off Officer Piner,” according to the investigators. Yes, he normally does not speak this way…just when he thinks non-racists cannot hear him and lets his guard down. > Piner, meanwhile, said the tape was “embarrassing” and suggested concerns for his family’s safety had led him to a “breaking point.” The irony here is stunning. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2020, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/16 "2020-06-25T19:08:30Z")
How long before their union files an appeal whining about the first amendment or some procedural crap? Completely ignoring the fact that the first only ensures freedom of speech, not freedom from consequences of speech. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2020, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/17 "2020-06-26T15:20:56Z")
…here are three sheriffs beating up a [black man.](https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/local/story/2020/jun/25/union-denies-beating/526195/) The District Attorney dropped all charges after watching the video, then immediately released the video. The union claimed releasing the video was an attempt to “pollute the jury.” The union claimed the strikes were “calculated” because they didn’t rear their arms all the way up even though the video shows them rearing their arms all the way up. They claimed he made a grab for a deputy’s gun and made several attempts to “grab it from the holster.” We don’t see any of that. This was “Pain Compliance” the union said. “Our job just doesn’t look good on video” the union said. The last couple of months have forced me to reassess everything I’ve ever thought about the police in America. I knew things were bad. I had no idea that things were this bad. The unions are literally the mob, running protection rackets, defending the indefensible. The police are rioting. I remember reading threads here about PBA Courtesy Cards and people here defended them. Or how working “security” whilst in uniform was perfectly normal. But there is nothing normal about any of this. I’ve been brainwashed by decades of US TV that make the cops out to be the “good guys.” But the truth is much more complicated than that. I had always given police (in America) that benefit of the doubt. They don’t get that from me any more. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2020, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/18 "2020-06-26T15:35:58Z")
In this June 5, 2020 episode of the Planet Money podcast, they explain how research shows that police unions lead to far more violence and deaths, compared to comparable cities which haven’t unionized. **Planet Money: Police Unions And Police Violence** [Do police unions lead to more police violence? : Planet Money : NPR](https://www.npr.org/2020/06/05/871298161/police-unions-and-police-violence) ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2020, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/19 "2020-06-26T18:09:47Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > I had always given police (in America) that benefit of the doubt. They don’t get that from me any more. One thing that can really change your mind is to look at police responses to George Floyd - there are a TON of cops willing to say that the actual method of restraint is bad and that the murderers should be prosecuted for that, but virtually none that question the rest of the situation. Why did they need to take him out of the squad car and restrain him on the ground in the first place? The vast majority of cops seem to have zero problem with taking someone who is cuffed and in custody out of a cop car and applying violent restraint methods to them ‘just because’, as long as the pain inflicted isn’t likely to lead to death. The police going out to gas, beat, and pepper spray peaceful protestors in a frenzy of violence hasn’t helped their case either, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2020, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/20 "2020-06-26T18:57:08Z")
Seems to me that the problem for US law enforcement is the inherent reliance on threat and use of force - little or no concentration on consultation. When you train people to use force you first have to instill in them the idea of threat and mission accomplishment. This is classic military training, for peacekeeping duties soldiers often have to undergo conditioning to undo this kind of training. What you have is a militarised police force, not merely in equipment but also in training, values and attitudes - the detention at any cost and the mission are all important. Except there is a lack of evaluation about what the mission should entail - its all just act now and think later - take the next hill, climb over the next ridge don’t stop until you complete and tell those higher up what you think they want to hear. The more force they apply, the less consent they get from the population - the more that difficult situations will arise. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2020, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/21 "2020-06-26T20:34:21Z")
The DA in Wilmington has decided not to file any charges against the racist cops. > **[DA tosses cases involving Wilmington officers in hate-filled video rant](https://myfox8.com/news/da-tosses-cases-involving-wilmington-officers-in-hate-filled-video-rant/)** > > WILMINGTON, N.C. (AP) — North Carolina prosecutors have dismissed cases involving three officers who were fired after a video recording captured one of them saying a civil war was necessary to wipe… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=2)