# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread #2 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 23, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531 "2020-06-23T20:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 116
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2308 "2021-12-20T02:59:47Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I’m also sure that she _shows_ far more remorse due to the fact that she is being held accountable for having taken someone’s life. And the fact that she has been schooled at length by her attorneys. She has went through her testimony, including cross-examination, over and over and over. She has been coached to cry. This is a ploy to garner sympathy from the saps on the jury. Hell, it worked for Rittenhouse. And no, I do not believe, not for a second, that she mistook her service weapon for a taser. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2309 "2021-12-20T03:29:22Z")
My google-fu is weak. I have searched, but could not find an instance when an officer meant to draw a service weapon but actually drew and fired a taser. Page after page where they drew the gun and meant to draw the taser… I mean, it _has_ to have happened seeing as how often the reverse has happened and how easy it is to mix them up. Right? Maybe one of you can come up with some stats. When I searched _pulled taser instead of gun_ all I get is cops who pulled guns instead of taser. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2310 "2021-12-20T03:57:38Z")
And of course, the obvious outrage from the Police Ranks complaining how this put lives at risk. I mean, the obvious argument _IS_ that when you have to fire a gun and taser gets pulled instead, lives _ARE_ at risk. Otherwise, it seems that regs that state the taser HAS to be on the same side as the gun looks a _little_ like ‘you can always shoot and say you were going for the taser wink wink’. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2311 "2021-12-20T06:16:05Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I’m sure that she has some amount of remorse over having taken someone’s life. In the seconds afterward, she sank to her knees and said, “I shot him, I’m going to prison.” This is on recently released bodycam footage from another officer. Not: “Oh God, I hope he’s okay.” But: “ **I** am in trouble.” That was her immediate reaction. Whatever remorse she might claim on the stand, her concern in the moment was for herself. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2312 "2021-12-20T06:30:01Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Whatever remorse she might claim on the stand, her concern in the moment was for herself. A year and a half ago, while on my way to my mother’s funeral, I rear-ended a car at a poorly-marked intersection. As my left headlight was crumpling in, my first thought was “Oh my God - my car!” - and not the fact that there were something like seven children in the back seat of the coupe I had hit. That took about 3 seconds (they were all fine; their car was barely scratched). What I’m saying is that thinking about yourself in the first few seconds of a traumatic event is a normal human reaction. It’s what you think after those first few seconds that counts. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2313 "2021-12-20T13:43:01Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > What I’m saying is that thinking about yourself in the first few seconds of a traumatic event is a normal human reaction. It’s what you think after those first few seconds that counts. That’s fine, but we are being told that we should see her remorse in those few seconds and judge her accordingly. As @Cervaise said, her remorse in that moment was not over having killed someone, it was over what that meant would happen to _her_. So I’m really not sure of @Czarcasm’s point that he is trying to make here. The remorse she showed on the stand was coached and motivated by wanting to get a lighter sentence. The remorse that she showed right after it happened was motivated by her fear of personal consequence. At least it means something is working in the legal system. 10 years ago, she would have been able to proudly exclaim, “I shot him, and not only am I not going to jail, I’ll even get to keep my job!” ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2314 "2021-12-20T15:21:11Z")
Following up on a 2020 story; I think most of y’all will recognize the video: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/ZDg3XDJFsmw/hqdefault.jpg "Former La Mesa officer on trial for filing false police report") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDg3XDJFsmw) > **[Former La Mesa officer charged with lying on police report testifies he gave...](https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/courts/story/2021-12-07/former-la-mesa-officer-takes-the-stand-in-trial)** > > Former police Officer Matthew Dages stood by his account of the encounter with Amaurie Johnson Verdict: Not guilty of lying. > **[Despite Video Evidence, Ex La Mesa Cop Charged with Lying In a Police Report...](https://news.yahoo.com/despite-video-evidence-ex-la-173000319.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAE7HxgIQlAzgIe547WrOSOEaKl9QWEaBasYDTDUxdUL8g7wc-NZbBWlJCDguIllg5R2_-89ftCgf4bI-AseviODllPRmdiwaydsPSZsdiAf_blENeNmYbggonMGwX7vKuo9__mSBVTwtndF6F6eiuAsZ98n1NsA1hFFZEijjXv-J)** > > An El Cajon jury acquitted a former La Mesa police officer of charges that he filed a false report after a controversial arrest of a \[…\] ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2315 "2021-12-20T16:47:01Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > My google-fu is weak. I have searched, but could not find an instance when an officer meant to draw a service weapon but actually drew and fired a taser. Page after page where they drew the gun and meant to draw the taser… > > I mean, it _has_ to have happened seeing as how often the reverse has happened and how easy it is to mix them up. Right? > > Maybe one of you can come up with some stats. > > When I searched _pulled taser instead of gun_ all I get is cops who pulled guns instead of taser. It’s not likely to make the evening news when a cop accidentally shocks someone instead of shooting them dead. > [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > And no, I do not believe, not for a second, that she mistook her service weapon for a taser. So your contention is that she murdered him? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2316 "2021-12-20T17:16:53Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > So your contention is that she murdered him? Would it be murder if she had pulled her gun intentionally? ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2317 "2021-12-20T18:10:42Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Would it be murder if she had pulled her gun intentionally? Maybe, maybe not. Intentionally using her gun would require intent to kill, but a voluntary manslaughter charge allows for intent to kill, but requires the perpetrator to be acting under emotional circumstances that could cloud a reasonable person’s judgment. But if, as @Typo_Negative suggests, she intentionally pulled her gun then that that means _every_ subsequent expression of regret was planned/feigned. Wouldn’t she think of better things to say in the moments afterward? Things that paint her in a better light, like expressing concern for Wright instead of “Oh god I’m going to jail?” Wouldn’t she follow through with calling in the shooting and trying to render aid, instead of curling up in a ball on the ground? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2318 "2021-12-20T19:06:19Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > It’s not likely to make the evening news when a cop accidentally shocks someone instead of shooting them dead. Sure it would. _Of course_ it would. There would _outcry_ from LEOs. They would demand that the taser and and gun be in separate places. If they needed to fire the gun to defend themselves and came up with a taser…we would hear about it. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2319 "2021-12-20T20:37:53Z")
Cop gets into firefight with drug dealing gangbangers, is shot te death when ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2021, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2320 "2021-12-20T20:55:48Z")
his piece of shit connection times out on him… ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2021, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2321 "2021-12-22T14:18:43Z")
Portland, OR: > **[Multnomah County deputy pleads guilty to vaccine card scam](https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-health-oregon-portland-5fdc11fbfc8745cbac5d1230587ac46f)** > > PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — A Multnomah County sheriff’s deputy pleaded guilty Tuesday to misusing vaccine cards, according to the Multnomah County District Attorney’s Office. Robert James Haney, 50, of Battle Ground, Washington, will serve six months... ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2322 "2021-12-23T07:25:08Z")
Multnomah county sheriff’s deputy “_Robert James Haney, 50, of **Battle Ground, Washington** _” Umm, Multnomah county is **in Oregon**. WTELF is wrong with these LEAs that they cannot even be arsed to hire people _from the same fucking state_? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2323 "2021-12-23T09:09:08Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Umm, Multnomah county is **in Oregon**. WTELF is wrong with these LEAs that they cannot even be arsed to hire people _from the same fucking state_ ? Huh? Multnomah County is on the Washington border. Battle Ground is closer to his job than the vast majority of locales in Oregon. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2324 "2021-12-23T16:29:54Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Multnomah county sheriff’s deputy “_Robert James Haney, 50, of **Battle Ground, Washington** _” > > Umm, Multnomah county is **in Oregon**. WTELF is wrong with these LEAs that they cannot even be arsed to hire people _from the same fucking state_? They don’t pay them enough to live in the county, I’m sure Battle Ground has a much less expensive housing market. Vancouver and environs is basically a bedroom community for Portland. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2325 "2021-12-23T17:15:41Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Vancouver and environs is basically a bedroom community for Portland. Where all the White-Wing scum lives. TriMet wanted to extend Max from Jantzen Beach across to Vancouver, but the clarkies would not be having any of that because the line runs through a dark neighborhood and they did not want any of _those people_ using it to come over bringing violence. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2326 "2021-12-23T17:34:20Z")
Freely admitting that I have not lived in Portland since 1979, and aware that many things have changed since then, I suspect that this is not one of them. I seem to remember a strong sense of seedy bigotry from that direction. The bigotry on our side of the Columbia was a little more middle class. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2327 "2021-12-23T18:07:38Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > WTELF is wrong with these LEAs that they cannot even be arsed to hire people _from the same fucking state_ ? Kansas City, MO had a rule that LEOs need to live in the city limit. Since the state controls our police department (combination of racism and Boss Tom problems), they passed a law saying that was no longer allowed. They did allow the officers could be forced to live in MO, however. What is particularly galling about the change (other then the legislature substituting their judgement for the local folks) is that KCMO is huge geographically, and there is pretty much any type of housing you could want available, with the possible exception of acre+ sized lots. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=115) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=117)