# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread #2 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 23, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531 "2020-06-23T20:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 118
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2021, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2348 "2021-12-28T08:44:49Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Sure it would. _Of course_ it would. There would _outcry_ from LEOs. They would demand that the taser and and gun be in separate places. If they needed to fire the gun to defend themselves and came up with a taser…we would hear about it. Demand it from who, exactly? If the cops didn’t like where they’re carrying their stun guns, what’s stopping them from just… carrying it differently? Who would this outcry be directed towards? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2021, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2349 "2021-12-28T17:46:27Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That wasn’t what you were asked, was it? “Do you have some reason to believe she doesn’t feel terrible about what she did?” What would be proven by her feeling terrible? I have reason to believe that many people who killed others in anger felt terrible right after the realization of what they did hit them. I _suspect_ that many husbands who killed their wives were very sorrowful and remorseful as they stood over the body. That they immediately regretted a decision doesn’t mean that they didn’t make a decision. [ Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)Sith Mod > [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Sure it would. _Of course_ it would. There would _outcry_ from LEOs. They would demand that the taser and and gun be in separate places. If they needed to fire the gun to defend themselves and came up with a taser…we would hear about it. > Demand it from who, exactly? If the cops didn’t like where they’re carrying their stun guns, what’s stopping them from just… carrying it differently? In my fruitless search for a news story about a cop trying to pull a gun to defend himself and accidentally pulling a taser, there were several mentions of police regs and procedures in certain locales where the placement of the taser was mandatory. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2021, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2350 "2021-12-28T18:38:07Z")
Are those regulations being set by someone other than cops? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2021, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2351 "2021-12-28T19:17:32Z")
[https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/l-a-police-involved-shooting-deaths-more-than-double-2020-total-as-death-count-rises/ar-AASbCAK](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/l-a-police-involved-shooting-deaths-more-than-double-2020-total-as-death-count-rises/ar-AASbCAK) I assume that by LA Police, they mean _only_ LAPD. Los Angeles Sherriff’s department stats may be separate. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2021, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2352 "2021-12-28T19:18:29Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Are those regulations being set by someone other than cops? I do not know. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2021, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2353 "2021-12-28T19:41:20Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Some video now available of police shooting of 14 year old Valentina Orellana-Peralta: I would interested to know several things. 1. What was said to 911 operators. Did they say suspect was ‘armed’, implying a gun? 2. What was relayed to police? Clearly, they are expecting a gun battle as they enter the building. They guys looking for the sniper in Full Metal Jacket looked more relaxed than these guys. 3. If they released the camera footage from the store, why didn’t they release the body cam video? Or did I miss a link somewhere? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2021, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2354 "2021-12-28T19:58:00Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > > [@Miller](#): > > > > Are those regulations being set by someone other than cops? > > I do not know. I just found this , though. > **[How Could an Officer Mistake a Gun for a Taser? (Published 2021)](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/04/13/us/daunte-wright-taser-gun.html)** > > The police say the officer who fatally shot Daunte Wright intended to fire a Taser. The weapon looks different from a gun, and officers are trained not to confuse the two. But tragic errors occur anyway. > Brooklyn Center Police Department protocol dictates that officers wear their guns on their dominant side and Tasers on the opposite side of their bodies, to reduce the risk that they will confuse the two weapons. > The Brooklyn Center Police Department manual cites the Glock 17, 19 and 26 as standard-issue for the department. All three pistol models weigh significantly more than a typical Taser. Glocks also have a trigger safety that can be felt when touching the trigger. Tasers do not. Grips on Tasers are typically different from those of firearms, as well, though they may feel similar because both are usually made of a similar type of polymer. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2021, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2355 "2021-12-28T22:53:26Z")
[Los Angeles police release bodycam video after a teen was killed at a Burlington](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/los-angeles-police-release-bodycam-video-after-a-teen-was-killed-at-a-burlington/vi-AASbRm6) The Los Angeles Police Department released body camera footage of the fatal police shooting of a 14-year-old girl last week. Body cam video shows them approaching, then a skip, then them shouting at him to roll over on his stomach, already shot. In other words, it does NOT contain the shooting. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2021, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2356 "2021-12-28T23:29:35Z")
The description in this AP article is disturbing: > **[Mom: 14-year-old shot by LA police 'died in my arms'](https://apnews.com/article/shootings-los-angeles-465382a898a94c9c5c25e0faab27cdb2)** > > Relatives of a 14-year-old girl who was killed by Los Angeles police last week say she loved skateboarding and had dreams of becoming an engineer to build robots. > [@](#): > > The early surveillance footage showed a man carrying a bicycle up the store’s escalator to the second floor, where he wandered around, seemingly disoriented, clutching a cable-style bike lock. At times he stood motionless, staring into the distance. > > The footage later showed the man on the down escalator attacking a woman, who managed to escape his grip and run out of the store. > > The man then left the store for a minute and a half, police said. After he returned, according to the video, he repeatedly beat a woman with a bike lock while she cowered on the floor. As she tried to escape, he dragged her through the aisle toward the dressing rooms. > > In bodycam video, armed officers entered the store and approached the suspect. One held a rifle and pushed to the front of the pack as the officers went through the store in formation. > > Other officers repeatedly said “slow down” and “slow it down” as the officer with the rifle moves forward. > > “She’s bleeding!” an officer shouted as they encountered the victim, crawling on the blood-stained floor. The suspect was on the other side of the aisle. > > “Hold up! Hold up!” another officer screamed just before three shots rang out. > > The officer holding the rifle fired, police said. > > The 24-year-old suspect, Daniel Elena Lopez, died at the scene. Soledad Peralta’s screams can be heard in the video. The cop with the rifle seems to have had an agenda, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2357 "2021-12-29T06:53:05Z")
> **[Did Boynton officer break pursuit policy in teen dirt bike death?](https://cbs12.com/news/local/did-boynton-officer-break-pursuit-policy-in-teen-dirt-bike-death)** > > As the Florida Highway Patrol continues to investigate an attempted traffic stop that resulted in the death of a 13-year-old who was driving a dirt bike in Boynton Beach, new questions are being raised about the department's policy on police... The kid apparently panicked after he saw he was being pursued. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2358 "2021-12-29T16:38:56Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > The cop with the rifle seems to have had an agenda, Sounds like he had excess adrenaline to go with it. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2359 "2021-12-29T22:45:52Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > > Brooklyn Center Police Department protocol dictates that officers wear their guns on their dominant side and Tasers on the opposite side of their bodies, to reduce the risk that they will confuse the two weapons. That alone might account for the relative preponderance of “oops I shot him” incidents and the relative dearth of “oops I tased him” incidents. > [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > The Los Angeles Police Department released body camera footage of the fatal police shooting of a 14-year-old girl last week. > > Body cam video shows them approaching, then a skip, then them shouting at him to roll over on his stomach, already shot. In other words, it does NOT contain the shooting. Judging from the audio, the video is paused just a fraction of a second before the cop pulls the trigger. Do you imagine there’s something critical contained in the subsequent second of video that will help improve our understanding of the incident? > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > The cop with the rifle seems to have had an agenda, IMO. I agree with this. He wanted to be the guy out in front, and then went ahead and shot the perp before he could ever evaluate whether there was a gun in the perp’s hand, or what might be beyond him. I wonder if a round from a handgun instead would have been stopped by the wall? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2360 "2021-12-29T23:20:44Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Judging from the audio, the video is paused just a fraction of a second before the cop pulls the trigger. Do you imagine there’s something critical contained in the subsequent second of video that will help improve our understanding of the incident? Do you not question why they omitted it? Is _THAT_ not the relevant portion? And it is more than a fraction of a second. ---
**Author:** ![QMatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/aeb1de/32.png) [@QMatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QMatic)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2361 "2021-12-29T23:45:56Z")
The video that @PastTense posted above includes all the audio and video of the shots being fired. I wonder if MSN themselves edited the clip because they thought it was too shocking for broadcast? If you really want to see it jump forward to 29:20. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2362 "2021-12-30T00:08:59Z")
From the AP story: > [@](#): > > The LAPD on Monday posted an edited video package online that included 911 calls, radio transmissions, body camera footage and surveillance video from the Thursday shooting at a store crowded with holiday shoppers. The department’s policy is to release video from critical incidents, such as police shootings, within 45 days. > > The family’s attorneys — including civil rights lawyer Ben Crump — have sent a letter to the LAPD asking for more video. LAPD edited the video. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2363 "2021-12-30T01:29:38Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > LAPD edited the video. I haven’t seen anything obviously edited out in the video PastTense linked to in [this post](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2347). You can hear the girl screaming in the background. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2364 "2021-12-30T03:09:15Z")
Other articles says that is the mother screaming. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2365 "2021-12-30T14:49:18Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Do you not question why they omitted it? Is _THAT_ not the relevant portion? And it is more than a fraction of a second. I’ve always assumed that the media take it upon themselves to edit out moments that are considered too graphic for a general audience. The media also hardly ever show people being killed or mangled in non-police incidents such as vehicle-pedestrian collisions; the one notable exception seems to be plane crashes, which I guess are somehow regarded as less shocking since we typically don’t see bodies being shattered. The money shot in which you seem so interested is at 1:06 in this version: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/ONBTImaURCY/maxresdefault.jpg "North Hollywood shooting: Body cam video leading up to teen girl, suspect's deaths released") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONBTImaURCY) Since the entire clip can be seen here, and the blurring of the beating victim and the shot suspect isn’t present in other versions, I would conclude that I’m right, i.e. that the version of the video provided by the LAPD is completely uncensored, and all of the blurring and cutting is being done in various ways by independent news media organizations so as to render the footage less horrifying for their audiences. If you really want to see the entire unblurred, uncut video, I’m sure someone out there has it online (LiveLeak used to host this kind of thing, but they’re gone now). Otherwise, you might consider filing a **[FOIA request](https://www.nfoic.org/california-foia-laws/)** to get your own copy. As for whether the actual instant of the trigger-pull is relevant to understanding the whole situation, I’d say it’s of almost negligible relevance compared to the minute or so of footage preceding it. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2366 "2021-12-30T15:01:28Z")
Here’s my takeaway from that video, although this is no new news for people reading this thread. At the beginning the cops are walking through the store yelling at the suspect. Way to de-escalate a tense situation guys. And you wonder why there was a shooting. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2367 "2021-12-30T21:10:27Z")
I subscribe to Virtual Railfan and a couple months ago a pedestrian was struck by a train in Elkhart, Indiana. I don’t know if it was fatal or not but there was a police investigation. The incident was recorded on one of the cameras and VR posted it on YouTube to aid in the authorities’ work. It was a private video, not findable by the public, and not even us folk who have paid subscriptions could see it – you had to be given the URL. YouTube said it violated their TOS and took the whole channel down, not just Elkhart but _everything_. It took twelve hours worth of appeals to get the channel restored. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=117) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=119)