# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread #2 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 23, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531 "2020-06-23T20:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 139
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2022, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2768 "2022-07-22T18:20:28Z")
A well regulated youth, being necessary to the security of a free State the right of the people to keep and bear Toys shall not be infringed. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_McQwark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4da419/32.png) [@Steve\_McQwark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_McQwark)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2022, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2769 "2022-07-22T19:01:10Z")
Fucking Burgermeister Meisterburger trying to suck all of the joy out of another town. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2770 "2022-07-25T11:04:49Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Is it up to the cops to declare what is and is not illegal? Perhaps not, but they can certainly remind people that the features of these “bead blaster” guns meet the definition of air rifles, which makes them illegal under existing ordinances. > ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2771 "2022-07-25T15:58:19Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Is it up to the cops to declare what is and is not illegal? When a cop with a real gun says your toy is a real gun, who’s going to win that argument? ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2772 "2022-07-25T22:00:04Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > I’m not joking. I encounter a frightening number of Asian Americans and (lighter skinned) Latinos who are all in with white supremacy because they believe they will be accepted as white after victory in the racial holy war. Hard to keep these guys straight these days, but wasn’t the head of the Proud Boys Hispanic? Standards have really fallen. Can you imagine the KKK having a member with an Hispanic surname? That surprised me the first time I heard of him. He was also apparently an FBI informant. Last I heard he was still a Proud Boy. > [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Perhaps not, but they can certainly remind people that the features of these “bead blaster” guns meet the definition of air rifles, which makes them illegal under existing ordinances. Huh, the ones I’ve seen are spring loaded and have to be cocked for every shot. Didn’t know they had air powered ones. I think I need to either stop reading this thread or read more often so I don’t have to catch up on 100+ posts. This thread really makes you lose hope when you read a bunch of posts at once. ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2773 "2022-07-26T13:54:53Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > Huh, the ones I’ve seen are spring loaded and have to be cocked for every shot. Didn’t know they had air powered ones. The tweet with the announcement was linked in the article. Here it is: > It is an absurd interpretation of the law, of course, but that’s not unusual for the NYPD. ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2774 "2022-07-26T14:01:24Z")
I take it back. Apparently the NYC statute is just absurdly broad and the NYPD might be right: > **[§ 10-131 Firearms.](https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/newyorkcity/latest/NYCadmin/0-0-0-6218)** > > Legal publisher offering ordinance codification services for local governments, specializing in providing codes of ordinances in print and on the Internet “It shall be unlawful for any person to sell, offer to sell or have in such person’s possession any air pistol or air rifle or similar instrument in which the propelling force is a spring or air…” Does this ban nerf guns? Maybe… ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2775 "2022-07-26T15:23:07Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > Does this ban nerf guns? Maybe… Point one at cop and find out. ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2776 "2022-07-26T15:48:32Z")
The law provides some exceptions for cap guns and movie props. It would also be extremely stupid to point one of those at a cop. Whether a toy can be used to goad a cop into shooting you is not a good metric for whether the toy is covered by a particular law. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2777 "2022-07-26T16:58:15Z")
Why would they bother to ban air rifles/pistols when they can’t be bothered to ban _real_ ones? ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2778 "2022-07-26T17:01:09Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > “It shall be unlawful for any person to sell, offer to sell or have in such person’s possession any air pistol or air rifle or similar instrument in which the propelling force is a spring or air…” Specifically has spring guns in it. Have to admit I’m a little surprised at that one. They have been around forever. There were spring guns 50 years ago when I was a kid. They shot the little round yellow BBs. I wonder where a rubber band gun falls. That’s a bit like a spring action. Best ban those also. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2779 "2022-07-26T17:17:39Z")
They try to ban real ones, but 2A keeps getting in the way. There’s no constitutional right to airguns, not yet, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2780 "2022-07-26T17:55:14Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > There’s no constitutional right to airguns, not yet, anyway. Only on a very strict reading of the word ‘ **fire** arm’. I think I could pretty easily argue that an airgun is a firearm for the purposes of the 2A. Of course, no way to know which way this court would rule, but I’d like my chances, frankly. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2781 "2022-07-26T19:07:41Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Only on a very strict reading of the word ‘ **fire** arm’. I think I could pretty easily argue that an airgun is a firearm for the purposes of the 2A. I’m not sure how that plays out. Since you bolded the word, do you think that actually they involve “fire” in some way? Are they items that are useful for participation in a militia or for self defense? > [@Folacin](#): > > Of course, no way to know which way this court would rule, but I’d like my chances, frankly. I don’t know how they’d rule either, as I don’t know what their feelings are on the right to possess and bear toys. But, as with all decisions from this court, they will make up their minds first and then pick and choose bits of case law and the constitution to justify it. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2782 "2022-07-26T19:40:05Z")
[A North Carolina city hired a Black town manager. Then its entire police force resigned. (msn.com)](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-north-carolina-city-hired-a-black-town-manager-then-its-entire-police-force-resigned/ar-AAZXAJo?cvid=8f247ec7816b4a91bc1deb3394f864a0) > but the “hostile” work environment that Jones produced made it impossible for progress to continue. Gibson, a 21-year police veteran Go fuck yourself. She has been town manager for less than 2 months. Unless she is coming into your office and beating you with a stick, it cannot have become that hostile in that amount of time. Much more likely, it is your ingrained racism that has created a hostile environment. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2783 "2022-07-26T19:44:55Z")
[Cincinnati cop swears she wasn’t referring to ‘all African-Americans’ when she repeatedly used the N-word on video (msn.com)](https://www.msn.com/en-us/foodanddrink/foodnews/cincinnati-cop-swears-she-wasn-t-referring-to-all-african-americans-when-she-repeatedly-used-the-n-word-on-video/ar-AAZZe3E?cvid=8f247ec7816b4a91bc1deb3394f864a0) > “In the video, recorded April 5, Officer Rose Valentino can be heard saying, ‘[Expletive] [N-words]. I [expletive] hate them,’” reported Luke Jones “It weren’t all darkies, just THESE darkies that I hate!” ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2784 "2022-07-26T19:59:11Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Since you bolded the word, do you think that actually they involve “fire” in some way? Are they items that are useful for participation in a militia or for self defense? Well, yes - flintlocks actually had fire that you could see, and even modern firearms use fire to ignite powder to propel the bullet. So you could argue that the 2A only applies to weapons of that type. And consistency (yeah, yeah, I’m a comedian) in how SCOTUS currently claims they interpret the Constitution based on the meaning of words in 1787, they should uphold such bans. And relative to self-defense - you could certainly create a weapon that fires a spring or air impelled projectile that could kill someone. Of course the water guns in question wouldn’t be useful in that regard, but that’s a question of scale. I could potentially defend myself with one by using it to shoot an attacker in the eye to blind them, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2785 "2022-07-26T20:20:13Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Of course the water guns in question wouldn’t be useful in that regard, but that’s a question of scale. Really it’s the problem of lighting the flammable liquid you choose instead of water. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2786 "2022-07-26T20:20:50Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Well, yes - flintlocks actually had fire that you could see, and even modern firearms use fire to ignite powder to propel the bullet. So you could argue that the 2A only applies to weapons of that type. I had thought you had meant that you could argue that an airgun was a firearm under 2A. > [@Folacin](#): > > And relative to self-defense - you could certainly create a weapon that fires a spring or air impelled projectile that could kill someone. So, are you arguing that air rifles should be legal as long as they are lethal? ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2787 "2022-07-26T20:29:48Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > [Cincinnati cop swears she wasn’t referring to ‘all African-Americans’ when she repeatedly used the N-word on video (msn.com)](https://www.msn.com/en-us/foodanddrink/foodnews/cincinnati-cop-swears-she-wasn-t-referring-to-all-african-americans-when-she-repeatedly-used-the-n-word-on-video/ar-AAZZe3E?cvid=8f247ec7816b4a91bc1deb3394f864a0) > > > “In the video, recorded April 5, Officer Rose Valentino can be heard saying, ‘[Expletive] [N-words]. I [expletive] hate them,’” reported Luke Jones Around 1:47, this officer was one of three who decided to [detain a black realtor and his black client for snooping around a house](https://www.citybeat.com/news/cincinnati-police-sued-after-realtor-client-handcuffed-while-inspecting-home-for-sale-12162811). She pointed a weapon at the two men. Body cam footage of the incident was deleted. She has also been [convicted of disorderly conduct](https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2020/03/23/cincinnati-police-officer-sister-arrested-when-argument-card-game-turns-violent/2905461001/) for having a fistfight with her sister, punching another relative, and using an umbrella to damage a car. The court-ordered anger management therapy from that incident evidently didn’t take. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/ctXJFDl-wzs/maxresdefault.jpg "BODY CAM: Footage shows Cincinnati officer use racial slur while on duty") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctXJFDl-wzs&t=107) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=138) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=140)