# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread #2 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 23, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531 "2020-06-23T20:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 144
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2868 "2022-08-26T15:37:29Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > But, as to the point of this thread, it is to condemn them for those actions, not to justify their actions or chastise others for condemning them. Yes, I’ve seen those posts. I really liked the one where the cops got shit for shooting a guy that was, actively, shooting at them. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2869 "2022-08-26T15:51:33Z")
Which posts are those? This is a very long thread and I don’t remember any. Could you point to one or two please? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2870 "2022-08-26T15:55:57Z")
So, you are defending cops for making up reasons for probable cause and reasonable suspicion here? Nice attempt at deflection with a little nutpicking, BTW. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2871 "2022-08-26T15:58:41Z")
> **[Florida Cop Blocks Pregnant Woman In Pain From Entering Hospital Just Feet Away](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/florida-cop-blocks-pregnant-woman-in-pain-from-entering-hospital-just-feet-away/ar-AA11779A?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=c06eced6025a4320ac8b4e7632af726d)** > > A Miami-Dade police spokesperson said the department has launched an internal investigation. I am sure there is more to this story, but I cannot imagine reason to block someone from an emergency room entrance, other than that person threatening violence. Otherwise, it just seems like a move destined to bring about a lawsuit. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2872 "2022-08-26T16:03:00Z")
The start of the story I referred to, > [@Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread #2](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2182): > > And for a failure to mow his grass: > [@k9bfriender](#): > > So, you are defending cops for making up reasons for probable cause and reasonable suspicion here? Oh fuck the fuck off. Maybe try actually reading my posts in this fucking thread for comprehension. 'Cause I didn’t say anything like that. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2873 "2022-08-26T16:37:29Z")
An internal investigation, huh? They’ll investigate themselves and conclude they did nothing wrong. Johnny Law was butthurt because a citizen dared to question his “authority” to carry on a conversation with another cop and block traffic in the process. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2874 "2022-08-26T16:37:39Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > The start of the story I referred to, Actually, that’s even a failure of nutpicking, as I don’t see anyone in the thread giving shit to cops for that story. > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Maybe try actually reading my posts in this fucking thread for comprehension. That advice could go both ways, it seems. But, your posts in this incident started by justifying the police’s actions with a “but, he was legally required to identify himself”, even adding in, “Pastor Jennings refusal to ID at all (which was the cops fault for not asking the correct question) and walking away didn’t set the scene to go ‘south’ in the first place.” Your description here favors the cops, as it doesn’t actually reflect the reality of what happened in this incident. Then, when someone said that’s a civil rights violation, you said the cops can just spin probable cause. You are correct that they can, and do, but as I said, a point of this thread it to criticize them for doing things like that, not use their corruption as a justification. Then you even claimed that he was doing the perfect thing for a lookout to do, and then repeated your incorrect claim that he didn’t ID himself, even saying that “if only he’d thought to say…” and then go on to describe pretty close to what the good pastor did in fact say. Every step in this story, you have taken the cop’s side, and justified their actions, even confusing this with how a traffic stop is handled, as well as assuming that any outstanding warrant is both valid and known by the person named on it. Finally, when I mention that the point here is to condemn them for making up reasons to harass people, not point out that cops making up reasons for harrassing people is common, and I suppose therefore acceptable, you then make a spurious nutpicked claim about the nature of people in this thread, and even in your attempts to nutpick, you still failed to find anyone exhibiting the behavior you claimed. I don’t have a great memory for poster names and their avatars, but I don’t remember you going out of your way to defend cops so much in the past. I assumed that it was just a misunderstanding on your part, but then you doubled down, so I’m not sure where you stand here. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2875 "2022-08-26T16:41:43Z")
Since IMHO you clearly want this thread to be ‘All cops are bad cops’ instead of what it is . . . maybe you should start that thread. PS He didn’t ID himself unless his first name is “Pastor”. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2876 "2022-08-26T16:47:12Z")
Talk about poor reading comprehension… I’d say that bad cops are bad cops, and this is the thread for that. You clearly want to say that bad cops are good cops, maybe you should start a thread on _that_. Put it this way, do you at least now acknowledge that the good pastor in this story _did_ in fact identify himself at the very beginning of the encounter with the police, and therefore, all your caterwauling about how the cops were justified since he refused to identify himself and walked away is based on nothing but your imagination? > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > PS He didn’t ID himself unless his first name is “Pastor”. As to your edit, is that really the hill you want to die on? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2877 "2022-08-26T16:49:18Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > do you at least now acknowledge that the good pastor in this story _did_ in fact identify himself at the very beginning of the encounter with the police Now? How about my first post? > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Even if it was just, as the law actually requires, a verbal ID. The cops fucked that up. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2878 "2022-08-26T16:50:37Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Now? How about my first post? You mean the post where you then went on to say: > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Not that Pastor Jennings refusal to ID at all (which was the cops fault for not asking the correct question) and walking away didn’t set the scene to go ‘south’ in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2879 "2022-08-26T16:53:48Z")
Yes, “Pastor Jennings” is not an adequate ID, and as I said, the cops fucked that up. They, clearly, don’t understand what the law actually requires. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2880 "2022-08-26T16:57:32Z")
I think “Pastor Jennings, and I live across the street” is really sufficient for the cops to stop investigating potentially felonious flower watering. I mean, if a cop went to a doctor and asked her name, she certainly may reply “I’m Dr. Wilson” and think that was sufficient. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2881 "2022-08-26T17:10:50Z")
So, that _is_ the hill you want to die on. Cops can harass and dehumanize people as long as they can find the flimsiest of excuses. Of course, me having reading comprehension that apparently is far better than your ability to comprehend your own writing, I would say that your claim of " Pastor Jennings refusal to ID at all" is at odds with him giving his profession, last name, and place of residence. My guess is that you misread the story, and thought that, as you said, he refused to identify himself at all and walked away, and rather than admit that you were wrong about that, are now doubling down and trying to gaslight that the words you used don’t mean what they say. A couple threads over, @pkbites is bemoaning a lack of recruitment for his police department, might be an interesting opportunity for you. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2022, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2882 "2022-08-26T17:14:56Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Cops can harass and dehumanize people as long as they can find the flimsiest of excuses. I can’t imagine that it’s actually possible to read _all_ of my posts in this thread and come to that conclusion . . . but you do you. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2883 "2022-08-27T00:32:23Z")
Cops went to a man’s funeral to arrest the man’s son on an outstanding warrant. Instead, they wound up killing him while he was hugging a relative. The relative was unscathed, but not for lack of trying by the cops. > **[Marshals: Man killed in officer-involved shooting at Nutter Fort funeral home...](https://www.wowktv.com/news/man-dead-after-officer-involved-shooting-at-nutter-fort-funeral-home/)** > > A man is dead after an officer-involved shooting that happened at the Amos Carvelli Funeral Home in Nutter Fort on Wednesday afternoon. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2884 "2022-08-27T01:48:13Z")
For whatever possible fucking explanation said killer cop will come up with for this, I will eagerly circumspectly await. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2885 "2022-08-27T14:22:10Z")
Killing someone at a funeral home. Convenient. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2886 "2022-08-27T14:36:03Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > Cops went to a man’s funeral to arrest the man’s son on an outstanding warrant. > > Instead, they wound up killing him while he was hugging a relative. The relative was unscathed, but not for lack of trying by the cops. > > [https://www.wowktv.com/news/man-dead-after-officer-involved-shooting-at-nutter-fort-funeral-home/](https://www.wowktv.com/news/man-dead-after-officer-involved-shooting-at-nutter-fort-funeral-home/) This “officer-involved shooting” BS has got to stop. Why on earth does the press let the police get away with dictating their stories? It’s never “officers shot and killed a man” but always “a man was struck by a bullet in an officer-involved shooting and was pronounced dead”. Like these sorts of things just sort of happen around the police, and they’re not actively involved except by proximity. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/2887 "2022-08-27T14:49:13Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Also for the love of muffins picking up the hose and watering flowers is the perfect thing for the lookout guy to do while his buddies are ransacking the house. And it’s also the perfect thing for a friendly neighbor to do. Most crimes at some point involve a person walking on the sidewalk. That doesn’t mean that walking on the sidewalk is a reason to suspect any sort of crime. > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Mind you, that was after Pastor Jennings decided to make himself look suspicious by not giving his name (See: _Cops done fucked up_ above.) and walking away from the cops in the middle of an investigation. He didn’t make himself look suspicious by doing that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=143) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=145)