# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread #2 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 23, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531 "2020-06-23T20:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Boudicca90](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boudicca90/32/16818_2.png) [@Boudicca90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boudicca90)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/322 "2020-09-03T19:07:27Z")
To anyone who doesn’t think law enforcement in this country is becoming WAY too totalitarian, here you go: [https://projects.tampabay.com/projects/2020/investigations/police-pasco-sheriff-targeted/intelligence-led-policing/?fbclid=IwAR3iO3QWnLVYMW5hVwF4hJpjFyV5PXOyi\_aeuIEKJDMEhzdZMfy1sns5eSk](https://projects.tampabay.com/projects/2020/investigations/police-pasco-sheriff-targeted/intelligence-led-policing/?fbclid=IwAR3iO3QWnLVYMW5hVwF4hJpjFyV5PXOyi_aeuIEKJDMEhzdZMfy1sns5eSk) Pasco County is doing it’s best Nazi impression in weeding out the “undesirables” in their society. How is anyone okay with stuff like this regardless of their race? (Also, how do I get links to show up with a pic?) ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/323 "2020-09-03T19:14:54Z")
It’s justified because after they picked their targets and followed them and surveilled them, they found that some of them committed crimes. Of course, the people that they did _not_ target would not be committing any crimes, so they didn’t need to follow them, right? It’s all the problems with “proactive policing”, but taken to a new level. > [@Boudicca90](#): > > (Also, how do I get links to show up with a pic?) Put it on its own line, like this: > **[Pasco’s sheriff uses data to guess who will commit crime. Then deputies ‘hunt...](https://projects.tampabay.com/projects/2020/investigations/police-pasco-sheriff-targeted/intelligence-led-policing/?fbclid=IwAR3iO3QWnLVYMW5hVwF4hJpjFyV5PXOyi_aeuIEKJDMEhzdZMfy1sns5eSk)** > > Families were subjected to around-the-clock visits from deputies, who often arrived without evidence of a crime. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/324 "2020-09-03T19:17:03Z")
nvm  ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/325 "2020-09-03T20:19:01Z")
Guess someone forgot the little baggies to plant on her that day. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/326 "2020-09-03T20:27:19Z")
Seems like it’s not just USA. [French reporter who joined police exposes racism and violence](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/03/french-reporter-who-joined-police-exposes-racism-and-violence-valentin-gendrot) > French journalist who infiltrated the country’s police force has described a culture of racism and violence in which officers act with impunity. > > Valentin Gendrot claims the violence was so frequent it became almost banal and describes one incident where he was forced to help falsify evidence against an adolescent who had been beaten by an officer. > > “It really shocked me to hear police officers, who are representatives of the state, calling people who were black, Arab or migrants ‘bastards’, but everyone did it,” he says. > > “It was only a minority of officers who were violent … but they were always violent.” ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/327 "2020-09-03T21:51:08Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > The one little thing I said repeatedly, that they are incompetent and are not fundamentally intellectually capable of becoming competent? That we’d have to get rid of them and start over with a much higher class of human being to get much improvement? But if they are bad at their job, it’s worth asking why that is, in a way that goes beyond your rather reductionist argument about salaries. I live in the United States, and I’ve lived for extended periods (years) in three other predominantly English-speaking western democracies - Canada, Australia, and the United Kingdom. I’m not going to claim that cops in those places are perfect–far from it–but they do, in general, seem capable of doing things like issuing traffic tickets and executing misdemeanor arrests without shooting people to death or suffocating them. I’m not sure that cops in those places are paid substantially more than police in America, although I’m happy to be proven wrong. As someone who teaches American history to college students, I’ve always been resistant to American exceptionalism, the notion that the United States is, for better or worse, fundamentally different from everywhere else in the world. But it does seem that there is something, if not unique, then at least different, about the United States and its approach to law enforcement, at least among wealthy democratic nations. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/328 "2020-09-03T22:36:34Z")
> **[7 Rochester police officers suspended over Daniel Prude's death, mayor says |...](https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/03/us/rochester-police-daniel-prude-death/index.html)** > > Seven police officers in Rochester, New York, involved in the March arrest of a Black man who was pinned to the ground and later died have been suspended, the city's mayor announced. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/329 "2020-09-04T04:06:18Z")
Doing traffic stops in a country that has very few guns is fundamentally different from doing it in one that has more guns than people. I’m steeling myself now for the _Atlantic’s_ award-winning journalist Graeme Wood to be canceled for daring to say sensible things about the Jacob Blake shooting on Sam Harris’s podcast (from 18:52 - 28:55): > **[\#216 - A Conversation with Graeme Wood](https://www.samharris.org/podcasts/making-sense-episodes/216-september-3-2020)** > > In this episode of the podcast, Sam Harris speaks with Graeme Wood about the breakdown of social order in the U.S. They discuss the recent eruptions of violence, the loss of trust in the media, the cases of Jacob Blake and Kyle Rittenhouse, how to... ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/330 "2020-09-04T12:33:39Z")
Why is that? One thing that I hate most about Harris podcasts is that they don’t have transcripts, and I’m not going to listen to an hour to find out what it is that someone refers to. I have no idea what Wood said, but this is not the first time he’s been on the Harris navel gazing show. At the very least, since you have made this prediction, if it turns out that Wood is _not_ cancelled, does that mean that we can finally put this whole cancel culture nonsense to rest? ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/331 "2020-09-04T12:38:57Z")
The guy who was the leading suspect in the shooting death of the Patriot Prayer member in Portland, was [himself killed by police](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/09/03/michael-reinoehl-portland-shooting-suspect-killed/5713274002/) trying to arrest him earlier today. I imagine this will be controversial. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/332 "2020-09-04T12:51:52Z")
Not controversial, but a bit confusing. From the article: > [@](#): > > Police on July 5 cited Reinoehl on allegations of possessing a loaded gun in a public place, Isn’t that exactly what all the right wing protesters do all that time? Why was this illegal? Anyway, this is the first time I’ve heard this guy’s name, I’m curious as to what the actual evidence is against him. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/333 "2020-09-04T13:13:45Z")
He murdered the guy on video. Then admitted killing the guy to a Vice reporter [here](https://youtu.be/fsDWXx5tYfk). That might be why the US Marshals wanted to arrest him. Pulling a gun when they try to do so, is a remarkably bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/334 "2020-09-04T13:59:36Z")
Ah, I had not seen that. All the searches for him only turned up more recent news about his encounter with the Marshalls. Don’t do sound at work, so hard to tell exactly what he said. Without audio though, he looks a bit… out of it. Not a doctor, but I’d say he could back off on his meth prescription. Still curious as to his citation for having a loaded gun in public. Doesn’t say that it was an illegal firearm, or that he was not allowed to have one. Just that he had one in a public place. Is that actually against the law, and if so, why are those who are bringing loaded guns into public places allowed to do so? My understanding is that he claimed self defense. I really can’t tell what’s going on in the video, but, as he’d been shot by the right wing before, I could possibly see how his paranoia about being in danger could be elevated. I’m not sure I buy the self defense argument, but then I also don’t buy the Rittenhouse self defense argument either. As far as how the actual arrest went down, what are you saying was controversial about it? Unless there ends up being video that contradicts the reports on how things played out, it seems fairly reasonable to me. Other than that Trump was demanding his apprehension several hours after he was already dead, of course. But that’s just because he is stupid, and that belongs in a different thread. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/335 "2020-09-04T14:28:16Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Isn’t that exactly what all the right wing protesters do all that time? Why was this illegal? A very good question. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/336 "2020-09-04T14:33:51Z")
The title of this piece gives you a good idea of what’s coming, but that doesn’t make it any less infuriating to read what this woman had to endure. > **[I Was a U.S. Diplomat. Customs and Border Protection Only Cared That I Was...](https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/08/30/black-us-diplomat-customs-border-protection-cbp-detained-harassed-325676)** > > Most of my colleagues crossed the U.S. border with barely a glance. Why was I usually detained and harassed? ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/337 "2020-09-04T17:33:22Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Why was this illegal? [Washington gun law summary.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Washington) > There is a rather long list of places where the possession or storage of firearms or ammunition is prohibited or otherwise restricted. > > some people are prohibited from possessing firearms due to certain criminal convictions > > Permit is required for concealed carry > > Open carry is lawful in Washington without any permit. Open carry of a loaded handgun in a vehicle is legal only with a concealed pistol license. So there are several scenarios where he could have been in violation. Including one where the gun being loaded is relevant. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/338 "2020-09-04T17:38:01Z")
Yeah, but all it said was “a loaded gun in a public place.” I assume the citation has more to it than that, but I don’t have access to that. In your opinion, what would that actually be referring to? ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/339 "2020-09-04T18:09:56Z")
I had thought the “loaded weapon” charge was related to him being shot somehow. I was mistaken about that and the charge was from early July according to your article. While it doesn’t state exactly where the violation occurred, it appears to me that it was at a protest in Oregon. [Oregon gun laws.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Oregon) > Oregon is also an open-carry but cities and counties are free to limit public possession of loaded firearms by individuals who do not have an Oregon Concealed Handgun License. The cities of Portland, Beaverton, Tigard, Oregon City, Salem, and Independence, as well as Multnomah County have banned loaded firearms in all public places for those without a license. So if he was a Washington resident he probably didn’t have an Oregon license as they are reportedly rather stingy with them. So WAGing that if it was a legitimate citation he was in one of the above cities for a protest. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/340 "2020-09-04T18:21:58Z")
Thank you for that. I was trying to figure out what exactly that meant, but I’d say that that is exactly it. So, the Proud Boys and caravans that are showing up armed in Portland are probably in violation of this law as well? Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531/341 "2020-09-04T18:29:28Z")
Yes, they would be in violation if they don’t have Oregon CCW permits. But I’m not familiar enough with that group to know if they’re primarily from Oregon or not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread-2/912531.md?page=18)